# Zidane head butt thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 10, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945 "2006-07-10T23:08:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/41 "2006-07-11T18:21:57Z")
[QUOTE=rabbit] As has been said, if it was that offensive that he felt justified in retaliating violently, he should have found a convenient dark alley to have a nice personal talk about it after the game, not during play. [/QUOTE] Good point. What football needs is more stalking and premeditated assault. That Zidane is a hothead. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/42 "2006-07-11T18:54:28Z")
[QUOTE=adam yax] Why aren’t people calling for his arrest? [/QUOTE] Actually this would apply to both. Under German law Materazzi probably commited a crime too. Even if we don’t know what he said, he already admitted that he insulted Zidane. Of course someone who doesn’t know what a terrorist is can’t be expected to be well-versed in foreign criminal law so he could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/43 "2006-07-11T19:24:53Z")
I loved it. The Italians had been nothing but cheating hacks the entire tourney. I’m getting myself a Zidane shirt in September when I go to Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/44 "2006-07-11T20:10:58Z")
[QUOTE=light strand] I loved it. The Italians had been nothing but cheating hacks the entire tourney. I’m getting myself a Zidane shirt in September when I go to Europe. [/QUOTE] Are you sure you’re watching the same tournament? France received a penalty for a dive against Portugal and against Italy. They have been among the worst offenders along with the Portugese. Seriously, I am starting to question what WC some posters were watching. ---
**Author:** ![Schuyler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@Schuyler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schuyler)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/45 "2006-07-11T21:18:34Z")
[QUOTE=rabbit] If you can’t handle a few comments till the game is over you’re compromising the TEAM not just yourself, and you have no place on the field. [/QUOTE] Exactly. My $0.02: 1. Trash talking is only perpetuated by being effective - if Zidane (and everybody else) ignored it, or used it to motivate their game-focused aggression, there would be no incentive to toss the insults (except that they are fun to say in the heat of a match). 2. This was a contest between Matzerrati and Zidane - who could throw the other one off his game. Zidane gets ejected - guess who gets scored the winner on this one. 3. If it was a really unforgiveable insult (and I’m not saying that some things should just be taken laying down), then the better way to have handled this was for Zidane (or an enforcer) to lay a hard tackle or body check on the guy next time he gets a touch on the ball. Maybe it only gets called for a foul, or a yellow-card - worst case, you get the red-card there, but at least it looks like hard, aggressive play and not a psychotic reaction to an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/46 "2006-07-11T21:53:10Z")
[QUOTE=Schuyler] 3. If it was a really unforgiveable insult (and I’m not saying that some things should just be taken laying down), then the better way to have handled this was for Zidane (or an enforcer) to lay a hard tackle or body check on the guy next time he gets a touch on the ball. Maybe it only gets called for a foul, or a yellow-card - worst case, you get the red-card there, but at least it looks like hard, aggressive play and not a psychotic reaction to an insult. [/QUOTE] I disagree, then it looks like a really boneheaded play by a very seasoned player who should know better. No one even knows about the insult or the issue and it looks like he was just and idiot and came in with a dangerous or really late tackle at a point in the game where he shouldn’t have. Now I know headbutting a player off the ball and getting ejected in the second overtime looks like a boneheaded play by a very seasoned player who should know better, but at least there’s no question in anyone’s mind that there was something shady going on and whatever it was really fucking pissed Zidane off. Has anyone even considered the possiblity that it could have had a total rallying effect? OK, we know it didn’t, but it just as easily could have. When I was on a basketball team once, we played against a team with a really dirty and foul player. In addition to really dirty and unsportsmanlike things, he was talking (terrible) shit all game. Finally, our star player (captain, btw) stood up to him right in front of the ref and gave him a good, hard, two-handed shove right to the ground. Immediately thrown out of the game (and the gym). Should he have known better? Yes. Could he have just shut up and took it like everyone else? Yes. But our team rallied behind it and played even harder in the final quarter to “win it for him”, since everyone was happy that he stood up to the guy a put him in his place. The parallels here are amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/47 "2006-07-11T22:26:40Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] Immediately before the incident, Materazzi appears to restrain Zidane with an arm around the chest - preventing him from turning to engage the ball; clearly this is the beginning of the whole incident, but nobody seems to be saying very much about the physical contact (concentrating instead on the verbal exchange); doesn’t this restraint constitute foul play of some kind? Forgive me if this is a pitifully naive question; I don’t normally take any interest in football, but happened to turn the TV on at the exact moment this drama was playing out live. [/QUOTE] Hello? Is this thing on? ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/48 "2006-07-11T23:17:46Z")
Yes, impeding an opposing players progress, either by arm restraint or by blocking (aka “setting a picK”) would generally be a foul. However, so far off the ball behind the play it would be rarely called unless it was really significant. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/49 "2006-07-11T23:35:53Z")
[QUOTE=Lochdale] Are you sure you’re watching the same tournament? France received a penalty for a dive against Portugal and against Italy. They have been among the worst offenders along with the Portugese. Seriously, I am starting to question what WC some posters were watching. [/QUOTE] _Thank_ you. I have no idea where the vituperation aimed at Italy is coming from, nor the accusations of negative play. Well, actually I do; it’s based on boring cliches about Italy’s traditional style, perpetuated by people who didn’t bother to watch the matches they played. It’s really pissing me off, and I don’t even _like_ Italy. They were an excellent team, and deserve the credit. **Mangetout** , yes there was some holding but it was of such a minor level that it would never have been called a foul, and should never have incited the reaction Zidane came out with. It’s no more than goes on at every close encounter every time a corner is taken. The holding was virtually nothing: I guarantee you that it is not that which directly caused the incident, and I assure you that it should not have been called a foul if there is to be any consistency in the refereeing. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/50 "2006-07-12T00:42:55Z")
[QUOTE=adam yax] If this had happened in a hockey game the outcry would be enormous, why should Zidane get off easier? [/QUOTE] Maybe in a Peewee league. Really, a little headbutt would draw 5 minutes and maybe a game, and it would only be talked about because it would be a bizarre thing to do in a hockey game. To get charged with assault you’d need to…oh, I don’t know, maybe knock a guy out cold with your stick, or break his neck or something. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/51 "2006-07-12T00:48:11Z")
[QUOTE=Gorsnak] Maybe in a Peewee league. Really, a little headbutt would draw 5 minutes and maybe a game, and it would only be talked about because it would be a bizarre thing to do in a hockey game. To get charged with assault you’d need to…oh, I don’t know, maybe knock a guy out cold with your stick, or break his neck or something. [/QUOTE] But that kind of stuff never happens in a hockey game, anyway… ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/52 "2006-07-12T03:05:05Z")
Oh, so this _isn’t_ an FF9 appreciation thread? :smack: :o (Yes, I am a massive Squeenix geek. _hangs head in shame_) ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/53 "2006-07-12T03:53:53Z")
I think Matterazzi said the same thing to Zidane that Bill Murray said to Scarlett Johansson in _Lost in Translation_. I’m just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/54 "2006-07-12T04:06:29Z")
[QUOTE=DooWahDiddy] I think Matterazzi said the same thing to Zidane that Bill Murray said to Scarlett Johansson in _Lost in Translation_. I’m just sayin’. [/QUOTE] If so, it certainly drew a different reaction. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/55 "2006-07-12T06:24:27Z")
I’m not giving anybody a free pass. All I’m concerned aobut is that justice is served. I have no beef whatsoever about Zidane because _he got a red card_. Justice was served. There’s a world of difference between getting away with it and not. Now, as for Materazzi, I hope that he has to sweat it out a bit, and at the very least face disciplinary action from his squad. (And I wouldn’t be surprised at all if it were a crime in Germany. They’re _really_ sensitive about this sort of thing these days.) Italy had the shootout well in hand, so he really gained nothing other than a meaningless personal victory. Personally, I loathe the idea of athletes being able to hurl insults with complete impunity, and an outbreak of violence is the last thing the WC needs. Some punishment, anything at all substantial, to take the first step toward cutting this crap out. ElvisL1ves - Ugh. That’s _sick_, dude. My only surprise was that it never spread off the field. Jesus H Christ on a goalpost. ---
**Author:** ![light\_strand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@light\_strand](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/light_strand)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/56 "2006-07-12T12:46:31Z")
[QUOTE=Lochdale] Are you sure you’re watching the same tournament? France received a penalty for a dive against Portugal and against Italy. They have been among the worst offenders along with the Portugese. Seriously, I am starting to question what WC some posters were watching. [/QUOTE] Right. Because Lord knows, it wasn’t diving if you didn’t get a red card. While the Portuguese were clearly the most blatant divers, the Italian Diving Team was the clear silver medalists. I watched every single game of the tournament in its entirety, and the French weren’t even in the medals as far as diving goes. Moreover, Italy’s diving determined the outcome of at least two games based solely on diving, including the farce that was the US game, and the idiocy that was the Australia game. Not known powerhouse teams. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/57 "2006-07-12T13:31:52Z")
[QUOTE=DooWahDiddy] I think Matterazzi said the same thing to Zidane that Bill Murray said to Scarlett Johansson in _Lost in Translation_. [/QUOTE] “Nice set of tits for a 19 yr old” ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/58 "2006-07-12T14:36:04Z")
[QUOTE=Troy McClure SF] IMHO, this argument falls apart when the game is decided by one-on-one penalty kicks. Otherwise, I’d agree much in the way it _isn’t_ Buckner’s fault, nor Bartman’s. [/QUOTE] Bartman, if he’s prepared. …What? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/59 "2006-07-12T15:22:17Z")
[QUOTE=light strand] I watched every single game of the tournament in its entirety, and the French weren’t even in the medals as far as diving goes. Moreover, Italy’s diving determined the outcome of at least two games based solely on diving, including the farce that was the US game, and the idiocy that was the Australia game. Not known powerhouse teams. [/QUOTE] Right, the Australian game were they played a near full game with 10 men and still managed to be the better team? Was it a penalty? Based on this WC it was better than most. Their “diving” against the Americans were no better or worse than anyone elses. The French were just as guilty as the Italians in the diving stakes and if you watched every game then you would know that. ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2006, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945/60 "2006-07-12T15:55:12Z")
I’m sorry but don’t fucking tell me we didn’t watch the same game. I watched almost every minute of every game this World Cup. The Italians are fucking dirty. I’m not saying they’re the only ones who drive and flail, tweak nipples, or elbow people in the goddamn face. And they won, whether they deserved it or not doesn’t matter. OK, they play dirty and they won. But the more I reflect on it, the less outraged I am that Zidane used the final minutes of his career to shut that fucker up. Of course, then again I’ve played a lot of sports in my life, not just watched. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zidane-head-butt-thread/363945.md?page=4)