# Zimbabwe's new colonialists - the Chinese **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2005, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimbabwes-new-colonialists-the-chinese/308532 "2005-06-16T13:21:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimbabwes-new-colonialists-the-chinese/308532/1 "2005-06-16T13:21:00Z")
From [this site](http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/654nqqde.asp?pg=1): [QUOTE] > [@](#): > > PARAMILITARY UNITS armed with batons, riot shields, and tear gas patrolled main roads in Zimbabwe’s capital last weekend as police warned they would not tolerate protests against their crackdown on street trading–the only livelihood for thousands of poor township dwellers. > > The police, under direct orders from Didymus Mutasa, the head of the secret police (Zimbabwe’s Central Intelligence Organization), have brutally removed any competition to Chinese traders whose shops have sprung up around the capital over the past few years. > > … > > This crackdown appears to be part of an orchestrated pro-China initiative. Mutasa, who is now overseeing the distribution of land to the Chinese, would not comment on charges that the Mugabe regime is giving tobacco farming land to the Chinese in exchange for war planes and other arms. What is certain is that the Zimbabwean government is buying these arms and the only imminent threat to Mugabe is his own people. > … > > Tsvangirai also accused Mugabe of ordering the crackdown in response to pressure from newly-arrived Chinese businessmen to stop secondhand dealers undercutting their cheap imports. “The country has been mortgaged to the Chinese,” Tsvangirai said in a statement. "How can we violently remove Zimbabweans from our flea markets to make way for the Chinese? > … > > Since western countries imposed sanctions on the Mugabe regime three years ago for failing to uphold democracy, the rule of law, and human rights, the Zimbabwean leader has responded by looking East. Mugabe himself vigorously courted Chinese businessmen to invest in Zimbabwe, who in the last three years have descended on Harare and the country’s other major cities, setting up shop at every street corner to sell cheap clothing and electronic goods. > > … > > One local academic joked that Mugabe had “yellow fever” since he can only see allies in Asia, which he knows will not criticize his oppressive policies. But the academic also raised a more serious point: Mugabe is throwing his own political cronies off tobacco growing land and oppressing street hawkers in towns to make way for the Chinese; and he is selling out his country to the Chinese in order to cling to power. So far, the West has done nothing to stem the tide of human rights abuse in Zimbabwe and has steadfastly refused to push for a UN resolution or any military solution. But what of Chinese influence in a destabilized region, is that a possible national security threat? It makes sense in a way – as China develops rapidly, it’s going to adopt some of the same traits as did the European powers in earlier centuries, specifically the desire to colonise – only there aren’t that many options nowadays, Africa providing some the few opportunities left. The questions for debate are how far will this go? Will Zimbabweans have to stand for it or will they rise up and reclaim their country? Will African neighbours/western nations sit idly by? Should they? Are other African countries destined for the same fate? Your thoughts: ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimbabwes-new-colonialists-the-chinese/308532/2 "2005-06-16T19:30:43Z")
Your article has a certain amount of confirmation from other sources on line (e.g., [zwnews.com](http://zwnews.com)). It’s easy to see what’s in it for Mugabe, but it’s less clear what’s in it for the Chinese. If it’s just a piece of business for them, it makes a certain amount of sense – not a ton, but some. The profits would be pretty modest, I would think, and the risk high. But if China is trying to play the influence game, then they’re just being idiots. No one of any sense would hang their hopes on a doddering and half-mad tyrant like Mugabe. He could die or be knocked off from one day to the next, and the first thing that will happen is that the people will turn on the Chinese traders. They stick out, they’re more or less defenseless, and they’ll have to be rescued by a fairly muscular intervention. Look what happened to the Indians in Uganda during Idi Amin’s regime. Don’t meddle in Africa is the message here – and more to the point, never get in bed with somebody like Mugabe. That’s pretty obvious to the rest of the world, but apparently not to China. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimbabwes-new-colonialists-the-chinese/308532/3 "2005-06-16T19:34:07Z")
China’s leadership is pretty schizo about foreign policy anyway. But I think what we’re seeing here is more foolishness from ambitious Chinese than a global influence movement. You see much of the same thing with Syrians in the Caribbean and Latin America for some reason; they came in, bought power and influence and got in bed with the government to protect both. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimbabwes-new-colonialists-the-chinese/308532/4 "2005-06-16T19:37:54Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > China’s leadership is pretty schizo about foreign policy anyway. But I think what we’re seeing here is more foolishness from ambitious Chinese than a global influence movement. You see much of the same thing with Syrians in the Caribbean and Latin America for some reason; they came in, bought power and influence and got in bed with the government to protect both. Maybe, but it sounds in this case like the Chinese government had been heavily involved from the start – selling warplanes, and using state-owned businesses to exploit Zimbabwean concessions. In the case you cite, I think it was mostly private individuals who were involved. Could be wrong, though. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimbabwes-new-colonialists-the-chinese/308532/5 "2005-06-16T23:54:10Z")
Well Mugabe is also desperate to get the farms operational again. If he can’t feed his own supporters then they will eventually topple him. The country can barely feed itself so Mugabe needs at least a short-term solution to a major problem. Not entirely sure what is in it for the Chinese but overall I doubt any good will come of this. ---
**Author:** ![David\_God\_of\_Frogs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f9b8f/32.png) [@David\_God\_of\_Frogs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_God_of_Frogs)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimbabwes-new-colonialists-the-chinese/308532/6 "2005-06-17T02:03:34Z")
That whole situation is really strange. I remember seeing a little blurb in the Economist a couple of months ago, which I’m not going to be able to find again, with side by side pictures of Kim Jong Il and Mugabe being displayed on flip-cards, hundreds of people each holding one. The blurb suggested that Mugabe may be looking to North Korea for inspiration. I get the feeling that something is quietly brewing over there. It’s hard to know how it will turn out. Maybe Zimbabwe is going to become an Iraq for the Chinese, who will eventually have to change their policy, and maybe even go to war? The international reaction to that would be interesting. Does anybody know if the Chinese are active in other countries in that region? Maybe South Africa? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimbabwes-new-colonialists-the-chinese/308532/7 "2005-06-19T01:10:19Z")
Interesting situation. Interesting thread. My guess is that when Mugabe falls, the Chinese will not send in troops. The age of Communist proselytizing is over, it is in China’s interest to uphold the principle of sovereignty and it makes no sense to establish a precedent in favor of intervention for their huge expat community. My other guess is that it will be a while before China replaces the US as the imperialist bogeyman of the day. That may not be unrelated to their nonintervention policy (disputes with bordering countries and territories excepted). ---
**Author:** ![marky33](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@marky33](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marky33)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimbabwes-new-colonialists-the-chinese/308532/8 "2005-06-19T12:02:34Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > but it’s less clear what’s in it for the Chinese. A lot of what China does is done because, after years of being a backwater, it finally can achieve things on a global stage (see the nation’s space mission and its huge investment in Shanghai’s Maglev train – both expensive and of limited benefit - but prestigious). It wouldn’t surprise me if the reasons behind China’s colonial ambitions were similar. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimbabwes-new-colonialists-the-chinese/308532/9 "2005-06-19T12:16:47Z")
> [@Measure for Measure](#): > > My guess is that when Mugabe falls, the Chinese will not send in troops. The age of Communist proselytizing is over, it is in China’s interest to uphold the principle of sovereignty and it makes no sense to establish a precedent in favor of intervention for their huge expat community. > > My other guess is that it will be a while before China replaces the US as the imperialist bogeyman of the day. That may not be unrelated to their nonintervention policy (disputes with bordering countries and territories excepted). It would also relate to the fact that China has no real ability to project force in Africa. None whatsoever as a matter of fact, not even to a coastal country, certainly not to a landlocked nation like Zimbabwe. - Tamerlane