# Zimmerman/Martin - how did this get to be about race? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 14, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487 "2013-07-14T16:34:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/221 "2013-07-16T18:17:54Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I am basically arguing that. The difference is that the FBI is looking for direct evidence relevant in a court that could be used to bolster a legal case. I am arguing that he was more than likely motivated by some racial prejudice per a everyday standard. > > They are not asking the same question, nor using the same standard. > > My point is that most people don’t think they are racist even when they clearly are. The company you keep tends to broadly be similar to you, so it’s no surprise Zimmerman’s family and friends don’t think bad thinks about him, or aren’t willing to tell the FBI that. If you want to know he bad things someone does, you don’t ask their friends, you ask their “enemies”. Sure you choose your friends but not family. Also, I believe it’s a very common social trait to be less racist than your parents. My mom was in high school when with schools were de-segregrated. When she was giving birth to me, she had to have my dad sign to approve her surgery so she couldn’t get pregnant anymore. Times have changed a lot in the few generations regarding civil rights. Lastly, if you want to find stuff out about folks, you go to the people that know them best. While family and friends will put you in a better life, to say they would lie to an FBI agent is unlikely and to say 30 friends/family/coworkers would is crazy. They spoke to enough people to get a pretty good idea about his racist views, if he harbored them. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/222 "2013-07-16T18:23:59Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Pancakes, I give up…you just dont get it or your own belief system is standing in the way I know we threw a lot of words at each other. I’ll try to summarize in one sentence and I hope you do the same in return. “I don’t think it’s fair for you to take one example of racism and use it as justification that Zimmerman is not only capable, but definitively engaged in a more severe form of racism” I’m trying to “get” what you think, but I find it very disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![aag3981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@aag3981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aag3981)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/223 "2013-07-16T18:31:23Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > I believe that his ego and probable sociopathic mindset, along with his views towards certain races fueled his hunger for power, it was the thing that fueled his lust to kill tm that night. Lust to kill! Sweet Jesus, what trial did you watch? Two guys got into a fight and one got shot. Zimmerman didn’t hunt down and shoot Martin. I see the logic that a person who is prone to violent offenses start small, but it’s quite a leap to say that joking rudely with a midderneastern at work was a precursor and grooming exercise to get him ready for killing. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/224 "2013-07-16T19:55:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > [Why the Zimmerman Jury Failed Us: The racism that resides at America’s core has led to the continual dehumanization of blacks.](http://www.theroot.com/views/why-zimmerman-jury-failed-us?wpisrc=root_more_news) — The writer says, “The most elemental facts of this case will never change. A teenager went out to buy Skittles and iced tea. At some point, he was confronted by a man with a gun who killed him. There is no universe I understand where this can be declared a noncriminal act. Not in a sane, just and racism-free universe.” But we don’t determine a crime like that. I get that he almost instinctively feels like this should be a crime, but it’s not the description of a crime. We determine existence of a crime by listing the elements of a crie and then asking what evidence we have for each element. If we have enough evidence to conclude that each and every element has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt, then we can at least discuss the outrage when a jury fails to convict. Here, he seems to want to short-circuit that entire process, and allow a jury to convict when they sense a crime has been committed. The problem with that approach should be obvious. A good exemplar of his understanding: > [@](#): > > But that is not the jury that was empaneled. In fact, the defense was wisely strategic in opting for a six-person jury; this decreased even further the odds that the panel would include someone likely to raise such concerns. The only way the defense was “wisely strategic” was being in the state of Florida. It’s not an option: > [@](#): > > 913.10 Number of jurors.—Twelve persons shall constitute a jury to try all capital cases, and six persons shall constitute a jury to try all other criminal cases. This author is woefully uninformed. But more to the point: he regards his lack of knowledge as no real obstacle to his conclusions. It doesn’t matter how little knows about Florida law: his FEELINGS validate his conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Doggo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/87869e/32.png) [@Doggo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doggo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/225 "2013-07-17T08:40:01Z")
Haven’t read all the replies, but my answer- NBC selectively edited the 911 tape to make it appear as if George was racist, and the President ( who should have known better ) claimed that Trayvon would have been like his son, or some such emotive claim. Plus Al Sharpton and many other black leaders have been playing the race card. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/226 "2013-07-17T20:41:45Z")
> [@NonaSequitur](#): > > Anyone who calls to report a suspicious black 7 year old just might be holding some biases… Why did you say that Zimmerman reported a suspicious seven year old black child, when he didn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Tacit\_Knowledge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@Tacit\_Knowledge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tacit_Knowledge)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/227 "2013-08-01T05:09:09Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Ebu6Yvzs4Ls/hqdefault.jpg "Afterburner w/Bill Whittle: The Lynching") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebu6Yvzs4Ls) ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/228 "2013-08-01T16:10:36Z")
> [@aag3981](#): > > Maybe I’m confused… Isn’t your argument that if Zimmerman didn’t racially profile Martin, that he would not have pursued him and started the confrontation that killed Martin? Aren’t you arguing that the confrontation was motivated by race, which you use other calls that Zimmerman made to police to confirm his tendancy to racially profile? > > I agree that some family and friends would defend him, but they got 30 and you only have 2. > > I don’t know anything about Zimmerman’s dad other than something on this thread saying he wrote a book about black people. I agree with another poster stating that just because dad is racist does not mean Zimmerman is and I don’t really follow your reasoning here. George Zimmerman’s father married a “Hispanic” woman, part Peruvian Indian, part Black. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/229 "2013-08-02T19:52:47Z")
> [@Rysdad](#): > > I really had hoped this board would hold itself to a higher standard than what I’ve seen in this thread and others here. It’s becoming as bad in here as it is in Reddit. > > Although I respect many members of this board, the static-to-noise ratio has grown so much that it is almost as bad as some of those “news” shows where five or six self-appointed experts yammer over each other and pander to their own insular audiences. > > Please, SD, don’t become a Reddit. Well, this post isn’t at all helpful in preventing this. What specifically are you referring to as static? What specifically do you think we should stop? You’ve just made a “reddit level” post yourself. It’s not useful. (Quotes because it’s your term. I think Reddit has some pretty smart stuff on it.) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/230 "2013-08-02T20:03:04Z")
> [@treis](#): > > This is what is so infuriating about this case. Or should I say, the most infuriating about the anti-Zimmerman crowd. The acceptance of blatantly obvious bullshit as fact without doing research of their own. Zimmerman did not call the cops because he thought a 7 year old was suspicious. He called the cops because the kid was: > > “Walking alone & unsupervised on a busy street and Zimmerman was concerned for his safety” (verbatim from the call log). And, seeing as seven-year-olds walk by themselves all the time, a lot of people have a trouble believing that is the real reason. Frankly, calling the police for something like that is extremely odd to me. I’m white, and even I think you generally call the police only when you’ve exhausted other options. You see an unsupervised kid you think might be lost, you go and talk to them yourself. You might bring them to the police station to see if their parents are looking for them, but you don’t call the cops on them. I’m not saying I agree with this interpretation, as Zimmerman seems exactly like the type of guy who calls the police for everything. The only thing that makes me question that is that the police don’t seem to dislike him for this. The main reason I see this as racially motivated is that I can’t see any reason to assume that Martin was up to no good, which is what Zimmerman reported to the police. Seeing someone you don’t know is not enough to arouse suspicion except in the xenophobic, and xenophobia is a form of racism. EDIT: Someone is probably going to argue that xenophobia is not necessarily racist. But it is when the “OTHER” is someone not of your race. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/231 "2013-08-02T20:09:21Z")
Not edit: and the “SAME” or “US” is people of you race. I just find it very unlikely that, from a distance, Zimmerman would have considered Martin an “OTHER” that needed to be reported if not for his race. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487.md?page=11)