# Zimmerman/Martin - how did this get to be about race? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 14, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487 "2013-07-14T16:34:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/41 "2013-07-14T18:10:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s NOT reasonable to express those views by saying, “People think it’s okay…” It’s obvious that plenty of people DO think it’s okay, **Bricker**. I don’t see a whole lot of pro-Zimmerman people saying he should have been convicted of manslaughter. Almost all of them seem to be of the mind that what he did was perfectly okay. This is not my imagination. These kinds of comments are rife here and elsewhere. So “People think it’s okay” is more than reasonable. Once again, I see you being one-sided with your sanctimoniousness. Please direct your ire towards all the folks who are jumping up and down with glee that a virtuous, upstanding citizen got away with killing another feral proto-human. If the meaning of a “not guilty” verdict has flown over **brickbacon’s** head, he sure has a lot of company. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/42 "2013-07-14T18:10:25Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > You are completely missing the point. If Trayvon was white there would have never been any evidence injuries or witnesses because that racist asshole wouldn’t have gotten of his ass to chase after a white kid. The prosecution had plenty of chances to present evidence showing Zimmerman was a racist. Why didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/43 "2013-07-14T18:14:49Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It’s obvious that plenty of people DO think it’s okay, **Bricker**. > > I don’t see a whole lot of pro-Zimmerman people saying he should have been convicted of manslaughter. Almost all of them seem to be of the mind that what he did was perfectly okay. This is not my imagination. These kinds of comments are rife here and elsewhere. So “People think it’s okay” is more than reasonable. > > Once again, I see you being one-sided with your sanctimoniousness. Please direct your ire towards all the folks who are jumping up and down with glee that a virtuous, upstanding citizen got away with killing another feral proto-human. If the meaning of a “not guilty” verdict has flown over **brickbacon’s** head, he sure has a lot of company. I don’t see anyone here being gleeful. Undoubtedly I may have missed such a thread or comment. All the discussion from pro-Zimmerman folks has seemed to me to focus on the legal question of what he did being LEGAL. Point me towards someone on this board who actually says Zimmerman did a good, wise, or just okay thing. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/44 "2013-07-14T18:15:33Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > All the discussion from pro-Zimmerman folks has seemed to me to focus on the legal question of what he did being LEGAL. Point me towards someone on this board who actually says Zimmerman did a good, wise, or just okay thing. I don’t have time for this shit. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/45 "2013-07-14T18:22:57Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t have time for this shit. In the absence of an example, it remains the case that I can’t agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/46 "2013-07-14T18:25:50Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > (Sorry for yet another thread - but I’m not sure this has been addressed.) > > This is not a question I’m trying to be snarky or cynical in asking - I’m genuinely curious: > > How did this case come to be racially charged? What is the evidence that Zimmerman’s actions were racially motivated? To what extent was this present in his actions or statements, and/or injected into the case by others after the shooting? I’m thinking the outcome of [this case](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/) is somewhat suggestive. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/47 "2013-07-14T18:30:51Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > Again: > > [John White](http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/john-white-convicted-killing-daniel-cicciaro-pardoned-gov-david-paterson-article-1.474441) > > Older black man. Kills white teenager in self defense. Unfortunately did some jail time, but was pardoned. > > He was right to do it. Said it then, saying it now. > > And, irony of ironies: Al Sharpton supported him. Strange that the Daily Caller, Fox News, and much of America’s right wing didn’t stand up for John White the way the stood up for George Zimmerman. I wonder why? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/48 "2013-07-14T18:33:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > In the absence of an example, it remains the case that I can’t agree with you. What’s new? I could say the moon is round and the sky is blue and you’d still sit there smugly and disagree with me. The shit is this: I give you an example and you will dismiss it as an one-time anomaly. Or you will tell me, ever so arrogantly, that I have misunderstood **Lonesome** or whomever. Or, you will say that you’d agree with me, if my tone weren’t so shrill or hysterical. And on and on it goes…until I just say fuck it and give up. I don’t got time for that shit, like I said. The sun is shining too brightly for me to let you get under my skin. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/49 "2013-07-14T18:35:50Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > An unarmed person who is shot and killed really doesn’t subject himself to the same level of scrutiny as a person who shoots and kills and unarmed person. There’s nothing unfair or unjust about that. A person walking down the street minding their own business, sure. And I’m not saying Trayvon Martin wasn’t doing that very thing. and your premise is way too broad; if I were to shoot and kill an unarmed intruder inside my home at 2:00 AM, I can guarantee you that I won’t be subjected ot the level of scrutiny that MZ has undergone. If I were to shoot and kill an unarmed person in my home at 2:00 AM, and that person turne dout to be my soon-to-be-exwife, then yes, I would expect that level of scrutiny upon me as the shooter/killer. But there is evidence that TM encountered/confronted MZ, not the other way around. What if TM had, upon noticing MZ following him, just walked home (where he was heading anyway) and called the police to report a suspicious person following him? If you believe that MZ stopped/confronted/engaged TM _before_ TM could get safely home, the question is moot: GZ is at best a weak, wannabe hero, and at worst a racist, bloodthirsty killer who stalked and killed an innocent boy. If you think there’s some evidence (and there is) the TM turned around/circled back upon GZ to confront him, the question stands. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/50 "2013-07-14T18:39:19Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m thinking the outcome of [this case](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/) is somewhat suggestive. :eek: Holy shit! That is seriously fucked up! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/51 "2013-07-14T18:40:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, shouldn’t have been a trial? Am I falling victim to Poe’s Law, here? Of course there should have been a trial, that’s blindingly obvious. How else are the authorities supposed to decide whether it was self-defense or not? If the prosecutor knows that he cannot convict, that he doesn’t have nearly enough evidence to convict, it is unethical to charge. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/52 "2013-07-14T18:45:19Z")
It didn’t “get to be about race”…it WAS about race. Big difference between the two. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/53 "2013-07-14T18:47:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t see anyone here being gleeful. Undoubtedly I may have missed such a thread or comment. Here is some [glee](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16470768#post16470768) for you. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/54 "2013-07-14T19:09:32Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > It was a travesty that White was convicted of manslaughter (and, since NY is goofy, he had to face the illegal weapons charge.) > > Justice was served and he was pardoned and released. > > The issue is whether or not those of us in the evil, racist party/NRA would support the killing of a white teenager by a black male in self defense, and I, for one, certainly believe the white kid needed killin’. Thank God your not invested, unemotional self could provide us with _one_ counter example. Because otherwise, how would we possibly have realized what happens a majority of the time? Oh wait. > [@Passengernumber4](#): > > George Zimmerman have every right to follow Trayvon Martin that night. It was not against the law in this case. It wasn’t stalking or anything even close to that. I don’t see how just following someone “will lead to tragic consequences a large percentage of the time.” I left out having a concealed weapon because, like me, he probably has it on him nearly 24/7. It really does not even matter that he had it until after being beat for 40 seconds when he finally used it. > > It’s mind-boggling to me that people think that following someone gives open ground to be attacked. Trayvon Martin also had the right to fight back against some stranger that he feared attacking him for no reason. It’s mind-boggling to see that people feel it’s okay to be threatening to others without any retaliation. > [@ExTank](#): > > Has anyone asked the question: “Why didn’t Trayvon just go home, lock the door, and call 911 to report a creepy white dude following him around?” > > Might this whole circus have been defused and avoided with this simple, sensible action? > > This is not meant to excuse Zimmerman’s actions prior to the confrontation (regardless of who instigated the confrontation) and subsequent shooting. Probably because it happens all the time? If he did, he’d probably never get back out of his house. > [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t see anyone here being gleeful. Undoubtedly I may have missed such a thread or comment. > > All the discussion from pro-Zimmerman folks has seemed to me to focus on the legal question of what he did being LEGAL. Point me towards someone on this board who actually says Zimmerman did a good, wise, or just okay thing. Then, as the last person linked to, hie thy self to the current pit thread. There’s at least two posters there that _should_ change that opinion, but who knows. Maybe they’re misunderstood or solely standing on legal principles too. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/55 "2013-07-14T19:11:26Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Strange that the Daily Caller, Fox News, and much of America’s right wing didn’t stand up for John White the way the stood up for George Zimmerman. > > I wonder why? Because that case never blew up, precisely because it wasn’t a civil rights issue–and neither was the Martin case. The Martin case had to be manipulated and lied about in order to make it even remotely connected to civil rights. I didn’t seem to notice any white folks screaming on any of the news channels for White to be called up on federal charges of violating the idiot teenager’s civil rights. Lookit–it’s just like O’Meara said last night: the disproportionate amount of blacks in prison is a conversation we need to have. Civil rights is a conversation we need to have. There _is_ plenty of racism in this country (I bowed out of my Zimmerman Trial pit thread because I just couldn’t stomach the outright racism of one poster in particular.) But to superimpose that over this case is…well, worthy of a Robert Downy Jr. “Tropic Thunder” meme. This was a self-defense case, pure and simple. People screwed up by making it a “cause.” ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/56 "2013-07-14T19:18:58Z")
You are finally right about one thing; it was a simple self-defense case. What you’re continually wrong about is who. The only one defending their self was Trayvon. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/57 "2013-07-14T19:21:55Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > You are finally right about one thing; it was a simple self-defense case. What you’re continually wrong about is who. The only one defending their self was Trayvon. Proof? Oh wait… ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/58 "2013-07-14T20:34:40Z")
Ex tank, you ask why didnt Trayvon go home? Did you realize that would be counter to what is standard safety advice? If you are being followed, you would be told NOT to go home, can you think why this would be? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/59 "2013-07-14T20:37:45Z")
Why do we even need to ask the question “What if Martin had just gone home?”? We already know the answer to that one: The answer is that, before he got there, an armed guy who had been following him for no reason would have gotten out of his car and confronted him, leading to his eventual death. Why the question? ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/60 "2013-07-14T20:39:49Z")
This is such common knowledge, Im surprised some either dont know it…I heard that several times growing up. You can see for example on the Palm Beach p.d. website, on a page for crime prevention, it is so important that this one item is capitalized and bolded," if you think youre being followed DONT GO HOME."…I wonder why? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487.md?page=4)