# Zimmerman/Martin - how did this get to be about race? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 14, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487 "2013-07-14T16:34:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/61 "2013-07-14T20:53:55Z")
I was listening to a right wing radio show the day before the verdict and the guy actually said ‘This isn’t about race because Zimmerman has several close, black friends’. What’s said, besides the cliche of it, is that I’m sure a lot of people think that as well. Personally, I do think race was involved but not to a severe degree. TM was black and that added to his suspiciousness in MZ’s mind. But you know what? Racism involved or not, MZ should not have gotten a not guilty. That he was able to stalk and harass this kid, ignore the direct orders of the 911 operator, confront a random stranger and end up killing him…and to get off of all legal charges? That’s just insane. I don’t care if TM struck out at him. MZ brought it on by his own actions. Should MZ have just laid down and taken a beating (if that’s even what happened)? No. But I don’t think in this situation that he should be able to get off scott-free from killing another person. Add on top of that the poor woman getting 20 years for NOT killing someone, makes me wonder wtf is wrong with this country. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/62 "2013-07-14T21:14:58Z")
And remember back at the beginning, when Obama said, “if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon Martin” or something like that? And the whole right wing noise machine went apeshit, for reasons still unclear to me? ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/63 "2013-07-14T21:26:13Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And remember back at the beginning, when Obama said, “if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon Martin” or something like that? And the whole right wing noise machine went apeshit, for reasons still unclear to me? It’s poor form for the President to comment before or during a trial. Nixon got jumped for doing the same about the Manson trial, and rightfully so. They both should have kept their traps shut. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/64 "2013-07-14T21:36:20Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > And remember back at the beginning, when Obama said, “if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon Martin” or something like that? And the whole right wing noise machine went apeshit, for reasons still unclear to me? Because the President inserting himself in the judicial process is unethical and counterproductive. This President blabs a lot. Here’s another example: [Remark by Obama Complicates Military Sexual Assault Trials](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/14/us/obama-remark-is-complicating-military-trials.html?hp&_r=0) ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/65 "2013-07-14T21:39:47Z")
I’m wondering how soon there will be a film ‘_Not based on any persons alive or dead, or on any events past or present_’. Beginning with a sequence in which the protagonist is dressing meticulously; slapping on boots and belts; arming up with his trusty gun and holster; then looking at himself in a mirror and saying ‘I’m going hunting for …’ Of course there will be considerable differences: the protagonist will be a 6’ 6" neo-nazi white guy with a thin rat-trap mouth; the victim will be a studious scared 14 yr-old, who merely covers his terrified face ( with glasses ) with his arms as he is unprovokedly gunned down at a distance; there will be a long hunting from a distance sequence beforehand as the victim innocently eats sweets; the protagonist will then self-inflict wounds to the back of his head and carefully break his own nose; the trial will end in his convictions for 3576 years; and will end with enough prison attacks, sexual assaults, shankings and other moral lessons to ensure as many liberal multi-orgasms in cinema seats to power the internet for a day ending with his much deserved death. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/66 "2013-07-14T22:05:43Z")
> [@Tollhouse](#): > > Ex tank, you ask why didnt Trayvon go home? Did you realize that would be counter to what is standard safety advice? If you are being followed, you would be told NOT to go home, can you think why this would be? Fair 'nuf, I was thinking mostly from my perspective. I don’t do concealed carry, but I do have a nice collection of firearms in my gun safe at home, with several loaded magazines ready to hand. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/67 "2013-07-14T22:16:39Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m thinking the outcome of [this case](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/) is somewhat suggestive. If Zimmerman had gotten into an altercation with Martin, then went to his truck, got his firearm, returned and fired it at Martin, and all this could proven beyond a reasonable doubt, he’d have been convicted of either aggravated assault or attempted murder. ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/68 "2013-07-14T22:31:07Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > If Zimmerman had gotten into an altercation with Martin, then went to his truck, got his firearm, returned and fired it at Martin, and all this could proven beyond a reasonable doubt, he’d have been convicted of either aggravated assault or attempted murder. She fired into the ceiling. For that she received 20 years. This case was prosecuted by Angela Corey, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/69 "2013-07-14T22:40:53Z")
> [@NonaSequitur](#): > > She fired into the ceiling. For that she received 20 years. This case was prosecuted by Angela Corey, btw. It is alleged that the bullet struck the wall first and ricocheted, ending up in the ceiling but not aimed there. Her husband stated that she fired the weapon at him. 20 years is the minimum for the crime she was convicted of. And again, she walked past her husband, entered the garage to get her gun, and returned. That case is nothing like Zimmerman’s. ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/70 "2013-07-14T22:50:48Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > It is alleged that the bullet struck the wall first and ricocheted, ending up in the ceiling but not aimed there. Her husband stated that she fired the weapon at him. > > 20 years is the minimum for the crime she was convicted of. > > And again, she walked past her husband, entered the garage to get her gun, and returned. That case is nothing like Zimmerman’s. Well if 20 years is the mandatory minimum in a case where nobody was killed (no to mention where there was a history of domestic abuse), then something is very wrong. There’s also something very wrong with this: [Breakdown of Justifiable SYG Cases by Race](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/art/cats/cj/graph072512.png) from Frontline’s [Is There Racial Bias in “Stand Your Ground” Laws?](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/criminal-justice/is-there-racial-bias-in-stand-your-ground-laws/) ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/71 "2013-07-14T23:11:23Z")
> [@NonaSequitur](#): > > Well if 20 years is the mandatory minimum in a case where nobody was killed (no to mention where there was a history of domestic abuse), then something is very wrong. Florida has very strict sentencing enhancements for crimes in which a firearm is involved. [Here is an overview](http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes/weapons/), the best-known part is the 10-20-Life law. That means a 10 year minimum sentence for violent felonies in which a firearm is carried, a 20 year minimum for violent felonies in which a firearm is discharged, and a 25 to life minimum sentence for violent felonies in which a person is shot. Under this same system, Zimmerman would have faced a 20 year minimum if he’d been convicted of manslaughter, far longer than in most states. > [@NonaSequitur](#): > > There’s also something very wrong with this: > > [Breakdown of Justifiable SYG Cases by Race](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/art/cats/cj/graph072512.png) > from Frontline’s [Is There Racial Bias in “Stand Your Ground” Laws?](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/criminal-justice/is-there-racial-bias-in-stand-your-ground-laws/) Maybe so. But Marissa Alexander’s is not a case you probably want to rally around, her actions clearly were not undertaken out a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/72 "2013-07-14T23:16:29Z")
> [@](#): > > … First, it requires immersion in a culture of contempt, derision and at bottom, profound dehumanization of African Americans, particularly black men. …[RIGHT][FROM HERE](http://www.theroot.com/views/why-zimmerman-jury-failed-us)[/RIGHT] > [@Passengernumber4](#): > > … He got out of the safety of his vehicle with a wild animal … Lest anyone think Lawrence D. Bobo isn’t, sadly, correct. CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/73 "2013-07-14T23:25:51Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m thinking the outcome of [this case](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/) is somewhat suggestive. Why? On the 911 tape, we hear Rico Gray saying, “I’m outa here,” and Marissa Alexander replying, “I’ve got something for you,” followed by a shot. That is certainly evidence that allows the fact-finder to conclude she wasn’t under attack. She said the shot was a warning shot, fired “Into the air.” But the bullet hole was in the wall at about the height of Gray’s head. The shell casing was on the kitchen floor and the bullet hole was in the kitchen wall while the bullet itself was lodged in the next room’s ceiling. There’s no question that Gray was an abusive asshole who had hurt Alexander on other occasions. But the law (again, the law, that pesky irritant to having the freedom to simply decide every case based on whatever criteria strike you as useful that day) says that she must feel in IMMINENT danger of death or serious bodily injury. The 911 tape and the testimony of Gray, and both of Gray sons, directly contradicts her – all say, and the physical evidence supports, the idea that she fired at a retreating Gray. Can you explain the evidence that causes you to see it differently? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/74 "2013-07-14T23:27:21Z")
> [@NonaSequitur](#): > > She fired into the ceiling. For that she received 20 years. This case was prosecuted by Angela Corey, btw. Then where did the bullet hole in the kitchen wall come from? ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/75 "2013-07-14T23:29:28Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Lest anyone think Lawrence D. Bobo isn’t, sadly, correct. > > CMC fnord! Bobo is on point. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/76 "2013-07-14T23:29:46Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > I was listening to a right wing radio show the day before the verdict and the guy actually said ‘This isn’t about race because Zimmerman has several close, black friends’. What’s said, besides the cliche of it, is that I’m sure a lot of people think that as well. Personally, I do think race was involved but not to a severe degree. TM was black and that added to his suspiciousness in MZ’s mind. But you know what? Racism involved or not, MZ should not have gotten a not guilty. That he was able to stalk and harass this kid, ignore the direct orders of the 911 operator, confront a random stranger and end up killing him…and to get off of all legal charges? That’s just insane. I don’t care if TM struck out at him. MZ brought it on by his own actions. Should MZ have just laid down and taken a beating (if that’s even what happened)? No. But I don’t think in this situation that he should be able to get off scott-free from killing another person. Add on top of that the poor woman getting 20 years for NOT killing someone, makes me wonder wtf is wrong with this country. Should someone be sent to jail even if they didn’t break the law? ---
**Author:** ![hmarvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/858c86/32.png) [@hmarvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hmarvin)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/77 "2013-07-14T23:30:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sorry, but I disagree. If Trayvon had been white, I think it’s very possible Zimmerman would have acted the same way. Many of Zimmerman’s prior 911 calls were about non-black “suspicious people.” > > I agree that if Treyvon had been Treyvona, the reaction would have been vastly different. But that is a result of society’s gender role expectations, rather than racism. People tend to forget, or refuse to believe, George Zimmerman has black ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![NonaSequitur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NonaSequitur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NonaSequitur)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/78 "2013-07-14T23:33:05Z")
> [@hmarvin](#): > > People tend to forget, or refuse to believe, George Zimmerman has black ancestry. So do many “white” people. Point is, he is not informed/ defined by this trait. [Here](http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Multimedia.jsp?id=m-5972) is a “black” man with a whole lot of European ancestry whose experience was informed by his African ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![Passengernumber4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Passengernumber4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Passengernumber4)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/79 "2013-07-14T23:49:25Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Lest anyone think Lawrence D. Bobo isn’t, sadly, correct. > > CMC fnord! Oh Please. I submit that you are the racist one for thinking of race when wild animal is mentioned. Race never crossed my mind while using that analogy, it works if Trayvon would have been white, asian, hispanic, or Vulcan. I’ll change though. George Zimmerman stepped out of his car into an aquarium with a _large fish_, not knowing if it was a dolphin or a shark. ---
**Author:** ![Tracijo67](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@Tracijo67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracijo67)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2013, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487/80 "2013-07-14T23:51:26Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Sorry, but I disagree. If Trayvon had been white, I think it’s very possible Zimmerman would have acted the same way. Many of Zimmerman’s prior 911 calls were about non-black “suspicious people.” > > I agree that if Treyvon had been Treyvona, the reaction would have been vastly different. But that is a result of society’s gender role expectations, rather than racism. I disagree. [Here](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html) is a list of all the calls he made. Most of the suspicious activity calls, when race was noted, were heavily coded “black male/s”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zimmerman-martin-how-did-this-get-to-be-about-race/663487.md?page=5)