# Zionism, Antizionism, antisemitism, etc **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 6, 2026, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557 "2026-11-06T16:29:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/1 "2026-11-06T16:29:29Z")
> [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/8519): > > That we grew up understanding antizionism, and understand antizionism as, what it has meant since Israel was created as a Jewish state, a call from Jews to be expunged from the river to the sea, calls for the sea to be red with Jewish blood, a justification for terror against Jewish targets across the world? > > No it is not bullshit that that is what we learned and what it historically has meant. YOU can say “but I mean it to mean THIS so YOU are crazy to hear that meaning!” It doesn’t fly. > > You use that word with full understanding of what it means to many and full knowledge that your meaning is a pretty new one and still use it? Yeah then you are being … insensitive. This is an interesting post. You could flip it almost word for word by replacing Antizionism with Zionism, and Jews with Palestinians. Like it or not, tons of Palestinians see Zionism nearly exactly as you see Antizionism. Are you being insensitive using that term, Zionism? Or is it not quite that simple? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/2 "2026-11-06T16:38:38Z")
Maybe. Which may be part of why few of us use the word “Zionism” as a major part of messaging. Especially in the current times when it more frequently means something else to others. They become wedge words and I’d rather find the common ground. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/3 "2026-11-06T16:43:32Z")
Yeah, I 100% agree with this. There are good and decent people who identify as both Zionist and Anti-Zionist, and there are also absolute shitheads on both sides. Insisting that everyone adopt our preferred language before we are willing to talk to them will get us nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/4 "2026-11-06T16:48:18Z")
Glad to see **[iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)** is taking exception to criticism of anti-Zionism. Why, it’s disgraceful and an affront to free speech to regard calls for elimination of Israel as somehow anti-Semitic. By the same token, how dare public officials in Philadelphia condemn [an upcoming boycott of Jewish-owned businesses](https://www.cnn.com/2026/11/05/us/philadelphia-boycott-ride-jewish-businesses) in the city on the day before the anniversary of Kristallnacht [as anti-Semitic](https://www.cityandstatepa.com/politics/2026/11/these-zionist-establishments-must-go-organizers-upcoming-philly-boycott-ride-target-jewish-owned-eateries/417016/)? > [@](#): > > Schlesinger’s, a Center City Jewish deli – (was) singled out for harassment by an anti-Israeli and antisemitic movement whose purported aim, according to a now-deleted Instagram post, is to “show these zio business owners that we see them for the disgusting humans they are.”… In an Instagram post, an organizer responded to suggestions for additional Jewish-owned businesses to boycott by clarifying that the Jewish-owned eateries were chosen for their biking proximity to Rittenhouse Square… > “Unfortunately, we’re not shocked because this has been going on at universities, at K-12 (schools), at the libraries”..These include recent attacks on Jewish-owned businesses around the country, she added. “There are businesses in New York City that they’ve tried to oust, and broken windows and so on,” Berney noted. “This is very serious.” It just goes to show you how outrageous it is that people aren’t allowed to boycott and threaten Jewish businesses without being called anti-Semitic. 😡 \*do I need to add /s? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/5 "2026-11-06T16:50:30Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Insisting that everyone adopt our preferred language before we are willing to talk to them will get us nowhere. I disagree. Language has meaning. Insisting on calling trans women “biological men” or trans men “biological women” is a good example, as through your choice of words you are making a statement on the very validity of the other position. Refusing to grant Israel’s right to exist is a bit like that. So, to be clear, is refusing to grant Palestine’s right to exist. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/6 "2026-11-06T16:53:55Z")
I can’t tell what your point is. You don’t appear to address what I posted. Is your point as simple as “some antizionists are antisemitic”? If so, I agree with that. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/7 "2026-11-06T16:55:11Z")
Boycott, fine; threaten, NO! I think history has proven beyond any rational person’s doubt that hatred and killing is getting them nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/8 "2026-11-06T16:56:39Z")
That’s absolutely disgusting. Holding American Jews responsible for Israel’s actions is completely antisemitic. Even if this deli owner actually held Smotrich-esque positions, an ordinary citizen having terrible politics does not justify holding street demonstrations in front of their business. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/9 "2026-11-06T17:10:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Like it or not, tons of Palestinians see Zionism nearly exactly as you see Antizionism. Perhaps, but I don’t. Israel became a nation in 1948. Israel was born in a region with unresolved disputes over borders, security, land ownership, and other matters. Since that time, Israel has fought a number of conflicts with various Arab forces, most notably in 1948–49, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982, 2006, and 2023–present. The Nazis exterminated over 6 million of them. In Tsarist Russian Empire, millions of Jews were restricted to a specific region known as the Pale of Settlement. They faced heavy state discrimination and violent, state-tolerated riots known as pogroms. The Palestinians have been strictly controlled and put upon, but Israel has made no effort to exterminate them even though they harbor Hamas which uses rocket attacks to kill Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/11 "2026-11-06T17:17:06Z")
As I’ve said many times before, it makes no difference to me whether someone hates me for being Jewish or whether someone hates me for being Israeli. Bigotry is bigotry. Someone who hates Jews is an antisemite. What do you call someone who hates Israelis? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/12 "2026-11-06T17:18:28Z")
Do all antizionists hate Israelis? I think an equally valid question is “do all Zionists hate Palestinians?”. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/13 "2026-11-06T17:19:56Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Someone who hates Jews is an antisemite. What do you call someone who hates Israelis? An asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/14 "2026-11-06T17:21:24Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Refusing to grant Israel’s right to exist is a bit like that. So, to be clear, is refusing to grant Palestine’s right to exist. So if both of those positions are completely unacceptable, we have a problem. Because clearly the majority of Israeli voters DO refuse to acknowledge Palestine’s right to exist. The Knesset voted overwhelmingly to affirm that there will never be a Palestinian State under any circumstances. So does Israel’s denial of Palestine’s right to exist invalidate Israel’s right to exist? Except most Palestinians might not accept Israel’s right to exist, so… I think the whole “right to exist” thing is a meaningless gotcha question. Ask instead “Do you recognize the right of all Jewish people to live in peace and security in the places they currently live?” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/15 "2026-11-06T17:22:50Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Ask instead “Do you recognize the right of all Jewish people to live in peace and security in the places they currently live?” …maybe except for the settlers? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/16 "2026-11-06T17:23:04Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > The Palestinians have been strictly controlled and put upon, but Israel has made no effort to exterminate them even though they harbor Hamas which uses rocket attacks to kill Israelis. This is a really interesting statement. Before I break it down, I want to make it clear that I think the State of Israel has the right to exist. “The Palestinians have been strictly controlled” Yes. This is bad. Strictly controlling people, and ensuring they are not compensated for the theft of their land, nor given full rights of citizenship, is very bad. “… and put upon,” I don’t know what this means in this context. “but Israel has made no effort to exterminate them” At this point, this is factually incorrect, and only defensible by quibbling about intention. Direct killing, destruction of infrastructure, blockades of humanitarian aid… what do you call that, tough love? “…even though they harbor Hamas” Here, “harbor” is doing a lot of heavy lifting. The statement implies all Palestinians are in on the conspiracy to hide known baddies. Another perspective might be that the people are engaged in a protracted war for their homeland. I’m not going to defend Hamas (so please don’t ask me to or claim that I have): I’m just trying to point out that from the Palestinian perspective, they might be seen as warriors rather than mere murderers. “which uses rocket attacks to kill Israelis.” Yes, they do, and yes, this is execrable. Again, Hamas is not a group I’m inclined to defend. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/17 "2026-11-06T17:25:44Z")
The settlers are problematic because many of them are violent, racist terrorists, not because they are Jews living in the “wrong” place. If they want to remain where they are and become loyal citizens of the State of Palestine, I absolutely think Palestine should allow them to do so. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/18 "2026-11-06T17:26:41Z")
This is probably a slight hijack (on me too!) – but some of them are living on/in property they stole pretty damn recently. They shouldn’t get to keep it, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/19 "2026-11-06T17:27:24Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > There are good and decent people who identify as both Zionist and Anti-Zionist, and there are also absolute shitheads on both sides. Is it possible, in good faith, to be neither a Zionist nor an anti-Zionist? This is a genuine question from one who has trouble understanding exactly what these terms mean (at least what the generally-accepted meanings are). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/20 "2026-11-06T17:28:07Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > The Knesset voted overwhelmingly to affirm that there will never be a Palestinian State under any circumstances. So does Israel’s denial of Palestine’s right to exist invalidate Israel’s right to exist? 1. 68 votes is hardly overwhelming. It’s a very slight majority. 2. Many of those ministers are no longer there after the last election. 3. The resolution didn’t actually say that there will never be a Palestinian state under any circumstances. It said that after Oct 7 such a state would pose an existential threat to Israel. Obviously that situation could change in the future. (Equally obviously, since it’s patently obvious that no Jewish politician in Israel is going to agree to recognize a Palestinian state until that situation changes, this vote was idiotic and nothing more than Arab baiting by Netanyahu. It should be condemned on those terms. But a nonbinding virtue signaling resolution does not mean that Israel will never recognize a Palestinian state.) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2026, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557/21 "2026-11-06T17:29:22Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > If they want to remain where they are and become loyal citizens of the State of Palestine, I absolutely think Palestine should allow them to do so. That’s never going to happen. The fact that you _think_ it could happens just shows that unlike Israelis and Palestinians, you’re just a dilletante foreigner talking about something you know little about. Nothing personal: all of you outsiders are like that, on both sides. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zionism-antizionism-antisemitism-etc/1034557.md?page=2)