# "Zipless f\*ck" means what exactly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 6, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383 "2003-08-06T18:27:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/1 "2003-08-06T18:27:29Z")
Somewhere it’s lodged in my memory that Erica Jong coined the term “zipless fuck” in her book _Fear of Flying_. Is that right? How exactly does she define the term? I’ve been saying it for years and it suddenly dawned on me I don’t know if I was using it properly. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/2 "2003-08-06T18:34:37Z")
Read here, Otto: [Time Out New York](http://www.ericajong.com/timeoutny9809.htm) > [@](#): > > Erica Jong is best known for coining a phrase: In her raunchy 1973 novel, Fear of Flying, the now-56-year old writer introduced the character Isadora Wing, who unabashedly searched for a zipless fuck. “Zipless,” Jong wrote, “because when you came together zippers fell away like rose petals, underwear blew off in one breath like dandelion fluff.” Perhaps it doesn’t seem so dirty now, but at the time, many people found it both horrifying and titillating that a woman would–gasp–admit to having such thoughts (much less write about them). ---
**Author:** ![DeskMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DeskMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeskMonkey)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/3 "2003-08-06T18:43:23Z")
**Otto** , it’s so funny that you asked this! A couple of mornings ago, I had the same question! I was thinking about my dad and I remembered that he was reading this book when I was a kid. I knew it was racy because of the cover, so I absconded with it and tried to find all the naughty bits. I remember finding some, but had a hard time making sense of it all. I do remember the phrase “zipless fuck”, but never had any clue what it meant. And now I do! Thanks **Ellen Cherry**! I thought it would be more . . . raunchy than that. So **Otto** , were you asking because you were thinking about Kyan? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ivar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ivar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivar)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/4 "2003-08-06T18:49:32Z")
No idea. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/5 "2003-08-06T20:14:48Z")
Oh dear. All these years I’ve been using it to mean that the sex was lackluster. So do the panties come off like dandelion fluff because the parties are coming together out of passion or convenience? Is this an “across a crowded room their eyes met” sort of thing or a “back room at the Stud Bar” sort of thing? And no, while I of course am always thinking about my husband Kyan, the question came up because I had yesterday what I thought was a zipless fuck but turned out to be, in light of the actual definition, rather on the zippy side. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/6 "2003-08-06T20:20:48Z")
“Zipless” refers to the impossible fantasy part. Everything happens just like in the movies, where sex is perfectly choreographed. In other words, it’s not like in the real world where you have to stop and undo the zippers, hooks, shoelaces, etc. first. The book was supposedly considered groundbreaking because it was a married woman thinking about these things, for a change. ---
**Author:** ![DeskMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@DeskMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeskMonkey)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/7 "2003-08-06T20:27:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\*And no, while I of course am always thinking about my husband Kyan, the question came up because I had yesterday what I thought was a zipless fuck but turned out to be, in light of the actual definition, rather on the zippy side. \*\* This is going to make me chuckle for the rest of the day. Poor Otto had a zippy fuck. Or maybe zipfull? ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/8 "2003-08-06T20:27:28Z")
Sorry, I hit post too soon. Anyway, the implication is that it is also emotionally zipless–that is to say there is no emotional entanglement, or even, necessarily, conversation. I vaguely recall from reading the book many years ago that she is imagining having sex with a perfect stranger she sees on a train. More the crowded room than the Stud Bar, though. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/9 "2003-08-06T22:16:09Z")
This is one of those questions I’ve wanted to ask for a long time, but it never occurred to me while at the 'puter. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/10 "2003-08-06T23:04:45Z")
Sounds like a blend of the two…across the crowded back room of the Stud Bar their eyes meet. In other words, what gay men have been doing for generations. ---
**Author:** ![dimsie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/77aa72/32.png) [@dimsie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dimsie)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/11 "2003-08-06T23:38:37Z")
I think she’s imagining herself as a gorgeous widow travelling through the Italian countryside. There’s a lot of sweat in that scene, as I recall. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/12 "2003-08-07T03:19:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeskMonkey \* > Poor Otto had a zippy fuck. “Are we having fun, yet?” ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/13 "2003-08-07T07:08:18Z")
I prefer a fuck that doesn’t require zippers because of full nudity. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/14 "2003-08-07T08:20:07Z")
There should be Zipless Fuck Suits wherein, once you have identified the person you want, you can set off tiny explosives in the suit that blow it off your body. ---
**Author:** ![Nangleator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e19adc/32.png) [@Nangleator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nangleator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/15 "2003-08-07T14:15:08Z")
I also absconded with the book in my youth. I remember a prerequisite of the zipless fuck being that neither person could know the other’s name, nor even speak beforehand. Probably was possible in the sixties. I don’t know. I was pre-pubescent. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/16 "2003-08-07T14:23:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Snooooopy \* > \*\*There should be Zipless Fuck Suits wherein, once you have identified the person you want, you can set off tiny explosives in the suit that blow it off your body. \*\* I’m going to be chuckling to myself all day at that mental image. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![freetobeme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@freetobeme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/freetobeme)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/17 "2003-08-07T14:30:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DeskMonkey \* > **…I was thinking about my dad and I remembered that he was reading this book when I was a kid. I knew it was racy because of the cover, so I absconded with it and tried to find all the naughty bits. I remember finding some, but had a hard time making sense of it all…** Ditto. Except it was my brother reading it at the time. That and The _Story of O_ were my very first forray into erotica of any sort. Even predated skin mags. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2003, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zipless-f-ck-means-what-exactly/193383/18 "2003-08-07T14:35:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > **[Are] the parties… coming together out of passion or convenience?** Yes. The zipless fuck is sex with no strings attached. It doesn’t necessarily have to be totally anonymous, but it should be because that way neither of the participants has to worry about calling the other or if this means they’re dating or if he has to buy her a birthday present – it’s is exclusively about the sex, and there’s no way for the parties to make it into any sort of relationship. The paradigmatic example is presented early in the book in the main character’s imagination. She imagines a train running through the italian countryside. A young soldier (IIRC – it’s been years) is sitting there with an old woman when a beautiful young widow walks in. The soldier is mesmerized by her. Eventually the old woman gets off the train and during the next stretch, when they go through a tunnel, the two begin going at it like mad. When they finish, the widow puts her clothes back on, and gets off at the next stop. The soldier thinks to follow her but she’s disappeared. The point of the zipless fuck is that your partner _can’t_ make more of it than it is, and neither can you, so you don’t have to worry about any social conventions involved in dating or romance. So yeah, **Otto** , sounds zipless to me, no matter how lame it was. –Cliffy