# Zogby Poll: Not a debate **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 28, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536 "2006-02-28T22:49:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/1 "2006-02-28T22:49:37Z")
I received an email today from Zogby and thought I’d share some of the poll findings here. There really isn’t a debate in this that I can think of right now, so I suppose this is more along the line of ‘witnessing’ (so please no ‘whats the debate here’ :)). I just wanted to share the info for anyone not a member of Zogby’s polling club (I get a questionare about once a month usually), and see what folks thoughts are. First, here is a [link](https://interactive.zogby.com/media/) that you can look more indepth at the info (I actually haven’t done this as its not functioning properly at my office right now). I think you have to register though so… Here is the email: > [@](#): > > Le Moyne College/Zogby Poll shows just one in five troops want to heed Bush call to stay “as long as they are needed” > While 58% say mission is clear, 42% say U.S. role is hazy > Plurality believes Iraqi insurgents are mostly homegrown > Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11, most don’t blame Iraqi public for insurgent attacks > Majority of troops oppose use of harsh prisoner interrogation > Plurality of troops pleased with their armor and equipment > An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year, and nearly one in four say the troops should leave immediately, a new Le Moyne College/Zogby International survey shows. > > The poll, conducted in conjunction with Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies, showed that 29% of the respondents, serving in various branches of the armed forces, said the U.S. should leave Iraq “immediately,” while another 22% said they should leave in the next six months. Another 21% said troops should be out between six and 12 months, while 23% said they should stay “as long as they are needed.” > > Different branches had quite different sentiments on the question, the poll shows. While 89% of reserves and 82% of those in the National Guard said the U.S. should leave Iraq within a year, 58% of Marines think so. Seven in ten of those in the regular Army thought the U.S. should leave Iraq in the next year. Moreover, about three-quarters of those in National Guard and Reserve units favor withdrawal within six months, just 15% of Marines felt that way. About half of those in the regular Army favored withdrawal from Iraq in the next six months. > > The troops have drawn different conclusions about fellow citizens back home. Asked why they think some Americans favor rapid U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq, 37% of troops serving there said those Americans are unpatriotic, while 20% believe people back home don’t believe a continued occupation will work. Another 16% said they believe those favoring a quick withdrawal do so because they oppose the use of the military in a pre-emptive war, while 15% said they do not believe those Americans understand the need for the U.S. troops in Iraq. > > The wide-ranging poll also shows that 58% of those serving in country say the U.S. mission in Iraq is clear in their minds, while 42% said it is either somewhat or very unclear to them, that they have no understanding of it at all, or are unsure. While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.” > > “Ninety-three percent said that removing weapons of mass destruction is not a reason for U.S. troops being there,” said Pollster John Zogby, President and CEO of Zogby International. “Instead, that initial rationale went by the wayside and, in the minds of 68% of the troops, the real mission became to remove Saddam Hussein.” Just 24% said that “establishing a democracy that can be a model for the Arab World” was the main or a major reason for the war. Only small percentages see the mission there as securing oil supplies (11%) or to provide long-term bases for US troops in the region (6%). > > The continuing insurgent attacks have not turned U.S. troops against the Iraqi population, the survey shows. More than 80% said they did not hold a negative view of Iraqis because of those attacks. About two in five see the insurgency as being comprised of discontented Sunnis with very few non-Iraqi helpers. “There appears to be confusion on this,” Zogby said. But, he noted, less than a third think that if non-Iraqi terrorists could be prevented from crossing the border into Iraq, the insurgency would end. A majority of troops (53%) said the U.S. should double both the number of troops and bombing missions in order to control the insurgency. > > The survey shows that most U.S. military personnel in-country have a clear sense of right and wrong when it comes to using banned weapons against the enemy, and in interrogation of prisoners. Four in five said they oppose the use of such internationally banned weapons as napalm and white phosphorous. And, even as more photos of prisoner abuse in Iraq surface around the world, 55% said it is not appropriate or standard military conduct to use harsh and threatening methods against insurgent prisoners in order to gain information of military value. > > Three quarters of the troops had served multiple tours and had a longer exposure to the conflict: 26% were on their first tour of duty, 45% were on their second tour, and 29% were in Iraq for a third time or more. > > A majority of the troops serving in Iraq said they were satisfied with the war provisions from Washington. Just 30% of troops said they think the Department of Defense has failed to provide adequate troop protections, such as body armor, munitions, and armor plating for vehicles like HumVees. Only 35% said basic civil infrastructure in Iraq, including roads, electricity, water service, and health care, has not improved over the past year. Three of every four were male respondents, with 63% under the age of 30. > > The survey included 944 military respondents interviewed at several undisclosed locations throughout Iraq. The names of the specific locations and specific personnel who conducted the survey are being withheld for security purposes. Surveys were conducted face-to-face using random sampling techniques. The margin of error for the survey, conducted Jan. 18 through Feb. 14, 2006, is +/- 3.3 percentage points. Just thought it was intersting and wasn’t sure if this poll was yet up where everyone was seeing it. Thoughts? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/2 "2006-02-28T22:56:22Z")
Right off the top of my head? This: > [@](#): > > Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11 and this: > [@](#): > > 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.” absolutely blow me away. How on earth did everyone get so misinformed? Oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/3 "2006-03-01T00:11:21Z")
Sometimes a post is so well written it can’t be improved on. What Maureen said. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/4 "2006-03-01T00:22:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11 I refuse to believe that 90% of our troops in Iraq are total morons, ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/5 "2006-03-01T01:00:49Z")
No, they’re just fed misinformation from the one-two punch of Rumsfeld’s Pentagon and Fox News… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/6 "2006-03-01T01:31:21Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I refuse to believe that 90% of our troops in Iraq are total morons, Well, leaving aside the ‘morons’ bit, I don’t see where belief comes into it. Are you saying you don’t believe in Zogby’s methodology reguarding how they poll?? Hm…I thought you guys would be more interested in this data. To me its quite revealing. -XT ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/7 "2006-03-01T01:41:31Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, leaving aside the ‘morons’ bit, I don’t see where belief comes into it. Are you saying you don’t believe in Zogby’s methodology reguarding how they poll?? > > Hm…I thought you guys would be more interested in this data. To me its quite revealing. > > -XT Why don’t you kick off the discussion with what you find particularly revealing, and why. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/8 "2006-03-01T02:35:43Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, leaving aside the ‘morons’ bit, I don’t see where belief comes into it. Are you saying you don’t believe in Zogby’s methodology reguarding how they poll?? > > Hm…I thought you guys would be more interested in this data. To me its quite revealing. > > -XT I don’t know what to think about it. I think Zogby is pretty reliable but I find it stunning that 90% of the troops in Iraq would believe that Saddam had anything to do with 9/11. **rjung** might be right that they’re just massively disinformed but I thought a lot of them had access to the internet and other news sources these days. Surely someone has told them by now that Hussein had no connection to either 9/11 or al Qaeda. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/9 "2006-03-01T03:04:04Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Well, leaving aside the ‘morons’ bit, I don’t see where belief comes into it. Are you saying you don’t believe in Zogby’s methodology reguarding how they poll?? > > Hm…I thought you guys would be more interested in this data. To me its quite revealing. > > -XT I don’t believe the 90% either. And \*\*rjung \*\*is just blowing smoke, as usual. The key is to see the exact question asked, but I’m not up for shelling out $$ for an “executive summary” (per the website) that might not even have that info. Note that this poll was done in conjuction with Le Moyne College’s Center for Peace and Global Studies, which (and I’m just guessing) might have its own, non-objective agenda. I don’t know anything about Le Moyne other than it’s a Jesuit college in uspstate NY. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/10 "2006-03-01T03:12:55Z")
Zogby is a respected pollster. I don’t know what’s going on but I doubt it’s a fraudulent poll. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/11 "2006-03-01T03:19:54Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Zogby is a respected pollster. I don’t know what’s going on but I doubt it’s a fraudulent poll. I doubt it’s “fraudulant” either. But you have to actually see the question they asked. I don’t take any poll at face value, even from a respected pollster like Zogby. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/12 "2006-03-01T05:19:28Z")
I think that when the dust settles and the truth is known, the country is going to have some very, very justifiably angry veterans in our midst. At the moment I think that the poll reflects a lot of confusion about what the reality is. I can’t imagine what conversations among the troops must be like there. How can they possibly keep their morale up? ---
**Author:** ![Gladstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90db22/32.png) [@Gladstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gladstone)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/13 "2006-03-01T05:40:01Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > How can they possibly keep their morale up? Apparently, according to the documentary “Gunner Palace,” every other soldier raps. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/14 "2006-03-01T08:49:28Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Right off the top of my head? > > This: > > > [@](#): > > > > Almost 90% think war is retaliation for Saddam’s role in 9/11 > > and this: > > > [@](#): > > > > 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq.” > > absolutely blow me away. How on earth did everyone get so misinformed? > > Oh, wait… You are looking at it back to front. The troops are correct. No doubt, most of the troops polled know Saddam had **no** role however trivial in 9/11 _and_ that Saddam has **never** protected al Qaeda in Iraq. That doesn’t stop those being the\* reasons for the US invading Iraq. Bad reasons sure, but it is the reasoning that is poor, not the troops understanding of them. - some of them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/15 "2006-03-01T19:48:01Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > No doubt, most of the troops polled know Saddam had **no** role however trivial in 9/11 _and_ that Saddam has **never** protected al Qaeda in Iraq. How do you know that? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/16 "2006-03-01T20:00:40Z")
Perhaps many of the soldiers understood the question to mean “What do you think is the primary reason \*that the President gave \* for this war?” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/17 "2006-03-01T20:51:30Z")
Did I miss it, or does the poll reveal any breakdown for respondents along officer/enlisted lines? I would expect a definite bump of favorable responses amongst the officers. If they are all lumped together, then I suspect that a poll focusing on either seperately would be even more revealing, not to say damning. Color me surprised. I would have expected a much larger quotient of soldiers willing to cast their services in the best possible light, which is to be expected, no one wants to think that he has engaged in a futile and bloody debacle. Bad enough to be in the relentless stress of combat situtation, worse still if one thinks the effort empty and meaningless. I don’t know about the rest of you, but here in Scandanavia West we have been lately subjected to a very slick and cunning political ad that touts and pimps the Iraq War in some truly professional and utterly dishonest ways. One recurring theme is the utter devotion of Our Heroes to the war, and The Leader. To quote Sportin’ Life, It Ain’t Necessarily So. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/18 "2006-03-01T21:23:13Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Perhaps many of the soldiers understood the question to mean “What do you think is the primary reason \*that the President gave \* for this war?” That’s what I am guessing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/19 "2006-03-01T21:28:46Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > That’s what I am guessing. Still doesn’t make sense. I can’t imagine any random sample of Americans taken anywhere in the country that would produce that result. Maybe it was a question like this: \*What were the reasons for the Iraq war (check all that apply): - WMDs - Sheltering terrorists - Retaliation for 9/11 - yada, yada, yada - ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2006, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zogby-poll-not-a-debate/346536/20 "2006-03-01T22:14:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Color me surprised. I would have expected a much larger quotient of soldiers willing to cast their services in the best possible light, which is to be expected, no one wants to think that he has engaged in a futile and bloody debacle. Bad enough to be in the relentless stress of combat situtation, worse still if one thinks the effort empty and meaningless. Which I think explains the high percentage of soldiers that give “payback for 9/11” as the reason to why they’re in Iraq. If it were true that Saddam was responsible for those terrorist attacks, it would be a simple, morally clear reason for the Iraq war. The rest of the reasons given, even those by supporters of the war, are rather more fraught with moral compexities. Getting back the guys that attacked us is a simple explanation that easily justifies the Iraq war without a lot of need for further questions. Of course its one that seems obviously fraudalent to us, but I think for people that don’t really have a choice as to whether to fight in Iraq or not, its easiest to put aside moral dilemmas by beliving in the simpilest answer to “why we fight” offered. Also explains why so many soldiers in the poll think its time to leave, after all if the reason to go to war in Iraq was to remove Saddam, we won that fight years ago.