# Zoinks, dougie\_monty, what's your problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2009, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929 "2009-02-15T09:18:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/61 "2009-02-19T07:21:55Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Dude, it’s six minutes long. Just watch it and tell me if you smiled. Yes, I did watch it and I did smile–seeing Elmer as a ridiculous Viking, Bugs in drag worse than Klinger, and the fat horse. And I’ve seen the ‘sad ending’ in MGM cartoons ten years older than this WB cartoon (Yes, I know rabbits don’t talk and ordinarily dead creatures don’t talk either.). Compare this to the ending of _King Lear,_ in which the king carries the lifeless body of Cordelia. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/62 "2009-02-19T08:04:17Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > Yes, I did watch it and I did smile–seeing Elmer as a ridiculous Viking. Aren’t you disgusted that the cartoonists couldn’t come up with their own characters and had to resort to ripping off Wagner? “Why use your own creativity when you can steal someone else’s,” and all that jazz? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/63 "2009-02-19T15:58:56Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > The episode title is “Viva Los Muertos.” Only a couple of short excerpts are available [adult swim] via Hulu. At one time, you could watch the whole thing on [adult swim], but not now :(. > > [Here’s the Scooby gang from that episode.](http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=efb106020a130b74e747315dad01730b) And from the same episode, [here’s Venturestein. Well, Venturestein’s POV.](http://www.adultswim.com/video/?episodeID=030e1d83038a170e2d131607b094b4d9) The reason Brock looks skeeved out is because he killed that guy (TWICE!!!), and Dr. Venture brought him back to life, intending to enter the cheap labor market. > > All excerpts that had been posted to youtube have been deleted for copyright reasons. It can be purchased on itunes through [this site](http://www.truveo.com/search.php?query=%C2%A1Viva+los+Muertos!&results=). > > I’ve got every Venture Bros. episode on my DVR. If you were in Anaheim instead of NY, I’d invite you over. 🙂 > > Anyway, good luck finding it somewhere. Thanks! Also found it here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2namHzxp6Sk&feature=PlayList&p=E24EE4638015DCFC&index=23](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2namHzxp6Sk&feature=PlayList&p=E24EE4638015DCFC&index=23) on youtube. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/64 "2009-02-19T16:00:32Z")
Never mind. I bought it there, but apparently it is now gone from iTunes. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/65 "2009-02-20T06:45:13Z")
> [@ntucker](#): > > Aren’t you disgusted that the cartoonists couldn’t come up with their own characters and had to resort to ripping off Wagner? “Why use your own creativity when you can steal someone else’s,” and all that jazz? I’ve been searching for the right words and phrases since I first saw this thread. Perhaps “vices” is a better term than “baser passions” ; after all, in that WB cartoon neither Bugs nor Elmer did anything they hadn’t done in cartoons going back fifteen years or more. My objection had been the use of iconic characters perverted into those using sexual license, to any degree or kind, and use of illegal drugs (and indulgence in alcohol, for that matter; ever see Velma, Bugs Bunny, or any other such character intoxicated?) If I had created one of the original characters I believe I would have cause to object to them being “satirized” (so-called) in such a manner, no matter whose idea it is. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/66 "2009-02-20T10:36:00Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > If I had created one of the original characters I believe I would have cause to object to them being “satirized” (so-called) in such a manner, no matter whose idea it is. [No, you wouldn’t.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/67 "2009-02-20T17:42:25Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > … after all, in that WB cartoon neither Bugs nor Elmer did anything they hadn’t done in cartoons going back fifteen years or more. But Bugs and Elmer aren’t the ones being satirized. Wagner is. Do you think Wagner would have approved of having his “German national epic” reduced to transvestite and fat jokes? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/68 "2009-02-20T17:51:59Z")
> [@ntucker](#): > > Aren’t you disgusted that the cartoonists couldn’t come up with their own characters and had to resort to ripping off Wagner? “Why use your own creativity when you can steal someone else’s,” and all that jazz? ALL THAT JAZZ?! Did you have to resort to ripping off a phrase from Kander and Ebb’s Chicago, or couldn’t you have created your own? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/69 "2009-02-20T17:57:48Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > But Bugs and Elmer aren’t the ones being satirized. Wagner is. Do you think Wagner would have approved of having his “German national epic” reduced to transvestite and fat jokes? I can think of at least _one_ German who wouldn’t have. (And don’t forget the final jab of the cartoon which zings nearly **all** operas!) ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/70 "2009-02-20T18:12:59Z")
wow, I think dougie\_monty may be completely insane. That’s some of the most bizarre nonsense I’ve ever seen anyone post. Especially the lsd thread, that was absolutely hilarious. I now expect dougie to accuse me of saying his friend’s supposed death was hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/71 "2009-02-20T19:34:45Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > [No, you wouldn’t.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody) Well, he might have cause to object without at the same time having any legal right to stop it. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/72 "2009-02-20T20:08:25Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Well, he might have cause to object without at the same time having any legal right to stop it. You’re correct, of course, but given his previous advocacy of lawsuits against cartoon-defilers, I’m assuming that he meant “cause” as in “cause of legal action”. This guy is definitely an odd duck. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/73 "2009-02-20T20:50:10Z")
> [@Pochacco](#): > > But Bugs and Elmer aren’t the ones being satirized. Wagner is. Do you think Wagner would have approved of having his “German national epic” reduced to transvestite and fat jokes? Fuck him! 😛 He was a vile, anti-Semitic, proto-Nazi who wrote bloated, pompous, overly-long operas. He more than deserved every second of ridicule. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/74 "2009-02-20T21:08:50Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > It’s the use of characters someone else created (why use your own creativity when you can steal someone else’s?) to extend baser passions (case in point: Velma and lesbianism) that have stayed the same since the junior-high-school years of whoever came up with The Venture Brothers? > [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I’ve been searching for the right words and phrases since I first saw this thread. Perhaps “vices” is a better term than “baser passions” ; There has to be an explanation for this other than that you consider lesbianism a vice. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/75 "2009-02-20T21:17:48Z")
> [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](#): > > There has to be an explanation for this other than that you consider lesbianism a vice. Right? Yeah. I think it’s funny that Velma being a lesbian is worse than Velma basically being equated with a woman who tried to kill Andy Warhol. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/76 "2009-02-20T21:21:38Z")
> [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](#): > > There has to be an explanation for this other than that you consider lesbianism a vice. Right? It’s possible it’s not the lesbianism per se he’s upset about, but the sexualization of a heretofore “innocent” cartoon character. I could be wrong and it’s the lesbianism, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/77 "2009-02-20T21:47:24Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > It’s possible it’s not the lesbianism per se he’s upset about, but the sexualization of a heretofore “innocent” cartoon character. > > I could be wrong and it’s the lesbianism, though. Then it’s a good thing nobody said anything about Daphne. There’s nothing innocent about that vixen. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/78 "2009-02-20T21:48:40Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I’ve been searching for the right words and phrases since I first saw this thread. Perhaps “vices” is a better term than “baser passions” ; after all, in that WB cartoon neither Bugs nor Elmer did anything they hadn’t done in cartoons going back fifteen years or more. > My objection had been the use of iconic characters perverted into those using sexual license, to any degree or kind, and use of illegal drugs (and indulgence in alcohol, for that matter; ever see Velma, Bugs Bunny, or any other such character intoxicated?) > If I had created one of the original characters I believe I would have cause to object to them being “satirized” (so-called) in such a manner, no matter whose idea it is. Yeah, but the difference between you, and the people who created Bugs Bunny and Scooby Doo, is that they have a sense of humor, and understand the concept of parody. And if the [Ruby-Spears](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ruby-Spears_productions)\* catalogue is anything to go by, the folks who invented _Scooby Doo_ have a much more relaxed attitude towards drug use than you do. So the fact that _you_ would object to your characters being used in such a manner is not any sort of evidence that _anyone else_ would object. [sub]\*_Scooby Doo_ was a Hanna-Barbera production, but it was actually created by Joe Ruby and Ken Spears, who later left Hanna-Barbera to create their own studio.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/79 "2009-02-20T22:44:18Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > It’s possible it’s not the lesbianism per se he’s upset about, but the sexualization of a heretofore “innocent” cartoon character. That’s what I’m rooting for. It still brings up a host of questions, though - sexuality is a vice? And then there’s the whole “why is gayness sexualizing when straightness isn’t” thing. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/80 "2009-02-21T02:16:14Z")
> [@5-HT](#): > > wow, I think dougie\_monty may be completely insane. That’s some of the most bizarre nonsense I’ve ever seen anyone post. That’s what I’m thinking. There’s mere ignorance and then there’s just total batshit insanity. Unlike the willfully ignorant, I think **dougie\_monty** lives in a world entirely unlike ours and he should be pitied. > [@Helen's Eidolon](#): > > And then there’s the whole “why is gayness sexualizing when straightness isn’t” thing. Actually, this is the writers’ problem, not **dougie\_monty** ’s. The first inkling we have that “Val” is queer is that she tries to rape Daphne. If anyone’s sexualizing gayness, it’s the show. So I objected to that bit, myself–the difference is that I don’t live in **dougie\_monty** ’s bizarro world, and I don’t harber delusions of grandeur that lead me to believe that I can silence any and all artistic expression I personally find distasteful. The creators of the Venture Brothers have a right to parody whatever they want to, and air whatever distasteful representation of cartoon characters they want to, assuming they can get a cable channel to broadcast it, which they can. TVB is usually pretty funny anyway. Hostile Dialect, Hostile Dialect, Narcissist [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929.md?page=5)