# Zoinks, dougie\_monty, what's your problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2009, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929 "2009-02-15T09:18:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/81 "2009-02-21T04:44:15Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > The first inkling we have that “Val” is queer is that she tries to rape Daphne. If anyone’s sexualizing gayness, it’s the show. Most of TVB’s straight characters are screwed up sexually as well, so I don’t think they’re picking on queers in particular. I think the “joke” with Val forcing herself on Patty is that although she talks incessantly about overthrowing the patriarchy when it comes right down to it she treats Patty as an object instead of a person … just like the worst male chauvinist would. Compare her to how they depict The Alchemist. He’s totally out and completely comfortable with it. The fact that he’s gay is definitely an aspect of his character, but his gayness is NOT sexualized. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/82 "2009-02-21T19:00:05Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Actually, this is the writers’ problem, not **dougie\_monty** ’s. The first inkling we have that “Val” is queer is that she tries to rape Daphne. If anyone’s sexualizing gayness, it’s the show. I thought it was obvious she was a stereotypical lesbian before then. I mean, granted, I knew before I even saw it that she was meant to be Valerie Solanas, who’s basically known for being the ultimate man-hating lesbian. So I already came in knowing she was a lesbian. But it does seem fairly obvious before she gropes Patty, no? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/83 "2009-02-21T20:49:17Z")
Only if you assume that the stereotypical lesbian is a man-hater, but I don’t think that’s a particularly tasteful stereotype to play into. I think jokes based on stereotypes can be parlayed into “it’s funny because it’s true”, but in this case, it really, really isn’t. I mean, I have a lot of close relationships with lesbians, which automatically means that those lesbians are not man-haters. And I interact with _a lot_ of lesbians on a day-to-day basis and can only name one who well and truly hates men. IME, straight women are much more likely to hate men. They have more reason to. Hostile Dialect, Hostile Dialect, Narcissist ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/84 "2009-02-21T20:57:42Z")
Tasteful or not, there are direct signals to the viewer prior to Val’s attempt on Daphne’s virtue that she’s a lesbian. Kind of like a limp-wristed lisping character signals ‘gay man’ even if you know it shouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/85 "2009-02-21T21:15:37Z")
I can only speak for myself, but I didn’t see “lesbian” until she groped Daphne. YMMV. Hostile Dialect, Hostile Dialect, Narcissist ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929/86 "2009-02-21T21:18:58Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Only if you assume that the stereotypical lesbian is a man-hater, but I don’t think that’s a particularly tasteful stereotype to play into. > > I think jokes based on stereotypes can be parlayed into “it’s funny because it’s true”, but in this case, it really, really isn’t. I mean, I have a lot of close relationships with lesbians, which automatically means that those lesbians are not man-haters. And I interact with _a lot_ of lesbians on a day-to-day basis and can only name one who well and truly hates men. They don’t in general, but the stereotype does exist. Plus, in this case, Velma isn’t just supposed to be any stereotypical lesbian who hates men. She’s supposed to be Valerie Solanas who write a whole manifesto about why men are biologically unnecessary and inferior. I didn’t really read into that as “The creators think lesbians are oversexed and hate men” but “Valerie Solanas was one messed up woman.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zoinks-dougie_monty-whats-your-problem/485929.md?page=4)