# Zounds, I Pit the Lord Mayor of London! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840 "2003-11-18T03:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/1 "2003-11-18T03:42:02Z")
Is this guy elected? If so, I think he just [threw away](http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=464783) the next ten elections or so. Look, of course he’s entitled to his opinion. Of course he’s the mayor of a great city and a powerful person and can say whatever the hell he wants. Of course there’s a free press and they can and should report this. And of course I am in turn free to call a guy who says things like > [@](#): > > I actually think that Bush is the greatest threat to life on this planet that we’ve most probably ever seen. The policies he is initiating will doom us to extinction. and > [@](#): > > Mr Livingstone recalled a visit at Easter to California, where he was denounced for an attack he had made on what he called “the most corrupt and racist American administration in over 80 years”. is a gibbering idiot with the historical perspective of a squirrel and a definition of ‘racism’ that I’ll be damned if I can figure out. What sort of consequences will this engender for him? I can’t imagine any American politican saying shit like this about another world leader except Pol Pot and getting away with it. Oh yeah, and he’s holding a reception for ‘everybody who is not George Bush’ and HE’S THE MAYOR OF THE HOST CITY. Why is he allowed to get away with this? :mad: Our Mayor Giuliani refused to have a reception with Yasser Arafat present and got raked over the coals for injecting politics into a routine ceremonial duty. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Babbington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Mr.Babbington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Babbington)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/2 "2003-11-18T03:49:41Z")
I think the position of Lord Mayor is appointed. And it’s not like he’s the Mayor of Greater London. Only the City of London, which is, AFAIK, a couple of blocks in the middle of the entire city. There is a silly ritual where the Queen cannot enter the City unless she had the Lord Mayor’s approval. Basically, it’s a ceremonial post. Kind of like letting the Poet Laureate get you all in a tizzy. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/3 "2003-11-18T03:54:06Z")
Nope, Ken Livingstone was elected. Not only that, what he’s said now about Bush is hardly out of line with what he’s been saying his entire political career. (I should point out Livingstone is not the _Lord Mayor_ of London, but the _Mayor_. Lord Mayor is a ceremonial position, the Mayor is not. Londoners knew full well how left-leaning Livingstone was when he was elected. And he is popular among his constituency. Yes, it may come as a surprise that Bush is not popular in England. But only to those who haven’t lived there or visited there in years. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/4 "2003-11-18T03:54:37Z")
He’s got my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/5 "2003-11-18T04:16:32Z")
I’m not thrilled with Bush either, but I suspect the human race is resilient enough to bounce back from his 4 or even 8 years of presidency. ---
**Author:** ![Herge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Herge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Herge)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/6 "2003-11-18T04:28:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Babbington \* > \*\*I think the position of Lord Mayor is appointed. And it’s not like he’s the Mayor of Greater London. Only the City of London, which is, AFAIK, a couple of blocks in the middle of the entire city. There is a silly ritual where the Queen cannot enter the City unless she had the Lord Mayor’s approval. Basically, it’s a ceremonial post. Kind of like letting the Poet Laureate get you all in a tizzy. \*\* Thats incorrect. As has been mentioned he is elected. Also, he holds a position of power and influence. He is the mayor of London, not just the City of London. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/7 "2003-11-18T04:47:58Z")
He did and said all that and you think this will _lower_ his chances of re-election??? You seriously underestimate the level of anti-Bush sentiment in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/8 "2003-11-18T04:58:29Z")
I think the Mayor is dead on. I hope he runs for PM. ---
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/9 "2003-11-18T05:17:29Z")
Really, **DtC**? I know you hate Bush, and I don’t blame you, but the excerpts from the OP were pathetically and ridiculously over the top. So perhaps you would like to explain how Bush is more corrupt than Nixon, or Reagan. Perhaps you’d like to explain how Bush is a racist. Perhaps you can explain how Bush’s policies will doom the human race to extinction. Or perhaps you’d care to retract your previous statement instead, presuming you cannot, in fact, explain the above. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/10 "2003-11-18T05:25:27Z")
> [@](#): > > And of course I am in turn free to call a guy who says things like > > > [@](#): > > > > I actually think that Bush is the greatest threat to life on this planet that we’ve most probably ever seen. The policies he is initiating will doom us to extinction. > > and > > > [@](#): > > > > Mr Livingstone recalled a visit at Easter to California, where he was denounced for an attack he had made on what he called “the most corrupt and racist American administration in over 80 years”. > > is a gibbering idiot with the historical perspective of a squirrel and a definition of ‘racism’ that I’ll be damned if I can figure out. I must agree with you here. Bush doesn’t hold a candle to Harding in the corruption department, his level of racism would be a dip in the institutionalized racism of the 50’s The “greatest threat to life on this planet that we’ve most probably ever seen” was, of course, Ronald Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/11 "2003-11-18T05:31:26Z")
Oh, I dunno… I think Yuri Andropov was probably better suited to that title. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/12 "2003-11-18T05:43:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by g8rguy \* > \*\*Really, **DtC**? I know you hate Bush, and I don’t blame you, but the excerpts from the OP were pathetically and ridiculously over the top. > > So perhaps you would like to explain how Bush is more corrupt than Nixon, or Reagan. Perhaps you’d like to explain how Bush is a racist. Perhaps you can explain how Bush’s policies will doom the human race to extinction. Or perhaps you’d care to retract your previous statement instead, presuming you cannot, in fact, explain the above. \*\* Reagan and Nixon didn’t lie their way into legal wars. Basically I agree that Bush is the largest current threat to world peace. His megolomaniacal neo-imperialism is a danger to the world and will probably create more terrorism that it will ever stop. I don’t know about “racist” but there is definitely a bigoted, anti-Muslim undertone to his actions, especially as it pertains to crap like “Homeland security.” The guy already has an illegal internment camp set up in Guantanemo which he wants to turn into a death camp. I don’t know if he’s more evil than Nixon (he’s definitely more evil than Reagan) but he is a much larger _threat_ to international security than either of them. BTW, I wonder if his plans to eradicate “terrorism” will eventually include a campaign against the IRA. I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/13 "2003-11-18T06:10:52Z")
Oh good. I am glad to see you’ve not gone completely bonkers! I certainly agree that Bush is at least one of the largest current threats to world peace and so forth, but even so it seemed like the comments quoted were… well, astounding in their lack of grounding in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/14 "2003-11-18T06:21:23Z")
Well to be honest I was sort of half kidding. I should have used a ;). ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/15 "2003-11-18T07:12:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mehitabel \* > **What sort of consequences will this engender for him? I can’t imagine any American politican saying shit like this about another world leader except Pol Pot and getting away with it.** Consequences are likely to be a noticeable rise in his popularity. Bush really isn’t popular anywhere outside of the US. > [@](#): > > \*\* Oh yeah, and he’s holding a reception for ‘everybody who is not George Bush’ and HE’S THE MAYOR OF THE HOST CITY. Why is he allowed to get away with this? :mad: Our Mayor Giuliani refused to have a reception with Yasser Arafat present and got raked over the coals for injecting politics into a routine ceremonial duty. \*\* And welcome to the UK, where Livingstone got elected mainly because he was seen as an honest politician who didn’t hide what he believed in. I doubt very much there will be any coals in the reaction to his statement over here. Ken’s a socialist and a pacifist. I can’t stand his socialism, but I admire the guy for saying exactly what he thinks. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/16 "2003-11-18T10:48:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Babbington \* > \*\*I think the position of Lord Mayor is appointed. And it’s not like he’s the Mayor of Greater London. Only the City of London, which is, AFAIK, a couple of blocks in the middle of the entire city. There is a silly ritual where the Queen cannot enter the City unless she had the Lord Mayor’s approval. Basically, it’s a ceremonial post. Kind of like letting the Poet Laureate get you all in a tizzy. \*\* eh, you know nothing. Ken was elected to his post, and his opinions are that of a very large percentage of the people he represents. Personally I think he’s great. He has a backbone and isn’t afraid to speak his mind and stand by his words. ---
**Author:** ![Tansu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@Tansu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tansu)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/17 "2003-11-18T10:57:46Z")
Slightly amusing thing I just heard on the radio. Ken Livingstone (elected Mayor of London, not the same thing as the Lord Mayor, but you know that by now) intends to enforce the Central London congestion charge on the President’s motorcade. The Central London congestion charge is an excellent wheeze whereby any vehicle entering into the Central London congestion zone gets charged £5. The idea is to discourage people from driving cars in Central London, and get them using the tube and the buses instead. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/18 "2003-11-18T11:02:22Z")
> [@](#): > > **I think he just threw away the next ten elections or so.** Bwa ha ha haa! What on earth makes you think that?!? 😃 Red Ken is his name, being red is his game, and his comments are a) entirely in keeping with his political viewpoints, and b) an accurate reflection of a large amount of the opinion of the UK (whether it’s a majority or minority is up to which paper you read), and London, where I am fairly sure this opinion is in a majority. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/19 "2003-11-18T11:07:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tansu \* > **Ken Livingstone (elected Mayor of London, not the same thing as the Lord Mayor, but you know that by now) intends to enforce the Central London congestion charge on the President’s motorcade.** Excellent. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2003, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/20 "2003-11-18T11:08:26Z")
HeHe Red Ken is always good for a laugh. He was elected mayor and has no problem expressing his opinion. > [@](#): > > From the OP link > The Mayor said he had viewed Labour’s 1997 election manifesto as a “load of old guff they’d come out with because they didn’t want to upset the Daily Mail” that would rapidly be ditched. “I was amazed when it transpired that Blair had been serious,” he said. And I heard last week that he is now being courted by Labour to rejoin the fold due to his popularity. Good on ya Ken. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840.md?page=2)