# Zounds, I Pit the Lord Mayor of London! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 18, 2003, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840 "2003-11-18T03:42:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/81 "2003-11-20T05:32:21Z")
> [@](#): > > the UK does not have a long-standing experience with them, and is suspicious of them by nature. As I understand it, the _police force_ is not used to armed guards. On a national level, however, the Brits are quite used to it. Simply go to the Tower of London, and you will note the guards standing about in all their charming frippery, but with brand new, polished MP5’s and assault rifles. I assure you they’re fully trained and proficient in their use. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/82 "2003-11-20T05:54:09Z")
> [@](#): > > What gives? What gives is that it’s possible, just \*possible [/quote] that Bush is not as hated there as some would like to believe. > [@](#): > > Regarding it being an “honor” for the UK… Good grief. I thought your media were famously “liberal”. Of course it’s an honor, for pity’s sake…just as it’s an honor when the Prime Minister makes a state visit to the United States. It’s not special treatment, it’s normal friendly relations and proper diplomacy. As for the “foreign armed force on American soil” bone of contention, I doubt that it was my imagination when I was politely but firmly escorted to the sidewalk on the opposite side of the street by the Mossad in Georgetown during a visit by Benjamin Netanyahu. How do I _know_ they were Mossad? Well, I couldn’t swear, but they (all 50 or more) were all rather swarthy gentlemen, and the one who spoke with me spoke with a definite accent and was conspicuously carrying an IDF-made Desert Eagle (whether it was a .50 or a .44 I couldn’t tell you.) Also, regarding the heavy artillery the Americans asked for…they asked, they were turned down. There are no Blackhawks flying nap-of-the-earth over Leicester Square tonight, are there? What’s the problem again? That they had the cheek to ask? You kidding me? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/83 "2003-11-20T06:40:47Z")
**glee** beat me to it. In most countries, even France, the people have a pretty good opinion of America and Americans. It’s just the behavior of one individual in particular that rubs everyone the wrong way. Incidentally, I was rather surprised that Tokyo Gov. Ishihara kept his yap shut during Rumsfeld’s recent visit to Japan. He’s got a pretty intense dislike for Bush, America _and_ Americans, and usually seems to enjoy getting his name in print for shooting his mouth off outrageously. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/84 "2003-11-20T06:58:14Z")
Ken didn’t get to be where he is by not playing to the gallery. He knows his constituency as well as any politician anywhere and if Ken takes a “controversial” stand you can bet your mortgage its one f those town vs. country issues e.g. where the metropolitan electorate holds a distinct view to middle England. And, imho, that’s all we need to know, the rest (the rhetoric) is the dressing; Ken believes there’s political mileage (within London) in taking a view against the visit. If he’s misjudged the mood, I’ll be more than a little surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/85 "2003-11-20T15:09:56Z")
OK, thanks for all the answers. I wasn’t the fact that he opposed the visit at all but the immoderation and extremism of the language that got to me–any American politican that said that about another leader of a democracy, never mind a head of state visiting his own city, would be branded forever as a raging lunatic even if people agreed with him. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/86 "2003-11-20T15:47:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glee \* > \*\*Well, the typical English reaction is probably: > > We love Americans (they speak our language, eat fast food and spend tourist money here) \*\* I agree with you in general, but let’s not get carried away here. During my seven years in England I met many people whose view of Americans ranged from dislike to sheer hatred, and were not afraid to say so to my face. Some of my now ex-wife’s “friends” asked her if she felt ashamed to be marrying an American. That last one really hurt. I think, yes, in general most English people do like (I wouldn’t say “love,” that’s going a bit too far) Americans, but dislike American foreign policy. It’s sad to say though, much as I loved living in England, that that wasn’t universally true. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/87 "2003-11-20T17:40:10Z")
**Duke** in fairness the same could be said for most countries IMO. English get it in the neck here from a good few. I’d reckon a Frenchman wouldn’t have to travel to far in the US to find someone who has a dislike for his nationality. Israelis probably get the same in lots of countries … and on and on. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/88 "2003-11-20T18:07:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\*I hear tell she’s got some pretty racy DVDs. \*\* Yeah, **horse** racey. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2003, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/89 "2003-11-20T18:15:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\ ***Duke** in fairness the same could be said for most countries IMO. English get it in the neck here from a good few. I’d reckon a Frenchman wouldn’t have to travel to far in the US to find someone who has a dislike for his nationality. Israelis probably get the same in lots of countries … and on and on. \*\* Oh, very true. But by the same token I wouldn’t say that Americans “love” the French, as **glee** implied that the English “loved” Americans. We are all in some respects blind to how we treat others. Again, I loved living in England (if I had a choice in the matter, I’d still be living there), and in general I was treated well by everybody I met. But at the same time I couldn’t help but notice that as my American accent ebbed away, I was treated better. Believe me, with all the English friends I made there, it pains me to say that, but I know it’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/90 "2003-11-21T07:17:38Z")
> [@](#): > > How many hundreds-strong armed foreign security forces does the US regularly allow on its soil? Uh, how about the guards at the U.N.? The building has its own armory, with machine guns. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/91 "2003-11-21T07:46:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > Uh, how about the guards at the U.N.? The building has its own armory, with machine guns. An interesting comment, but the UN Headquarters is a unique case. I expect any embassy (in either the US or the UK) can have armed guards inside. The point is two-fold: - does the US allow foreign dignitaries to bring their own massive security precautions onto the streets of America? - doesn’t Bush realise that saying he wants them in the UK is quite an insult to the UK protection services? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2003, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840/92 "2003-11-21T07:57:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duke \* > Oh, very true. But by the same token I wouldn’t say that Americans “love” the French, as **glee** implied that the English “loved” Americans. We are all in some respects blind to how we treat others. > > Again, I loved living in England (if I had a choice in the matter, I’d still be living there), and in general I was treated well by everybody I met. But at the same time I couldn’t help but notice that as my American accent ebbed away, I was treated better. Believe me, with all the English friends I made there, it pains me to say that, but I know it’s true. Well I was exaggerating for dramatic effect! There certainly is a clear difference in the way Brits think of the US, the US people and the Bush Administration. US television, films and food are popular here. But Bush is not. I know that we have a racist (happily few electoral successes) political party (National Front), and that there is some prejudice against all foreigners (occasionally you see right-wing newspapers using anti-immigrant propaganda, for example.) I wonder if such things are more marked in rural areas. I moved to the countryside here 15 years ago. (Splendid quality of life.) However in friendly conversation I have been told that I will always be an ‘outsider’, because I was not born inside the local boundary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zounds-i-pit-the-lord-mayor-of-london/213840.md?page=4)