# ZPG Zealot: A troll too far **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621 "2011-01-14T17:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/201 "2011-01-15T02:02:25Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The dividing line is choice. Sure thing, honeybunches of nuts! You have the _choice_ not to shake hands. And if gloves protect you from the handrape, my little sweetling of sociopathy, you can shake hands with gloves on so that the bad man can’t touch you in your special place. You know. Your thumb. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/202 "2011-01-15T02:03:04Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Seriously, I don’t need a ‘conscious raising session’ (whatever the hell that is), and I am fully aware of the history of feminism… [O rly?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_raising) Anyway, I’ll play devil’s advocate. All else being equal, a guy who insists on touching a woman, or tries to shame her into it (“it’s just a handshake, what’s your problem?”) is probably more likely to be a rapist or abuser. And yes, it is forced, on a societal level. It’s forced on everyone, really. Shaking hands sucks, but it’s one of those things you have to put up with. To avoid it you’d either have to turn into a social freak who sticks out like a sore thumb and be the subject of harsh judgment, or be a hermit. ZPG: Instead of stabbing them, why don’t you one up them by offering your hand to them? Now they’re the whore! Oh wait, that doesn’t work for guys I guess. Slut/stud split. I guess fantasizing about slicing into their inards with a blade is better… :o ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/203 "2011-01-15T02:03:30Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > You simply don’t have the ability to do basic crictical thinking do you, hon? Maybe somebody slipped you some LSD during all that hand shaking. The dividing line is choice. A woman can be completely celibate or she can sleep with ever guy in town as long as that is what she chooses, not what she has been compelled to do by some one else. It’s a very simple principle. A woman’s body and her sexuality are hers alone and she can use them anyway she wishes as long as she doesn’t violate someone else’s rights. (i..e. the right to swing her fist ends where someone else’s nose begins). She can have sex with any willing (so Dio doesn’t get upset I’ll add of legal age here) partner, but she can’t rape somebody else. So what if she chooses to accept someone’s handshake, and doesn’t feel violated at all? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/204 "2011-01-15T02:09:11Z")
Then she’s either a whore, or too naive to know how badly she’s been treated. Duh. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/205 "2011-01-15T02:10:35Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > [O rly?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_raising) > > Anyway, I’ll play devil’s advocate. All else being equal, a guy who insists on touching a woman, or tries to shame her into it (“it’s just a handshake, what’s your problem?”) is probably more likely to be a rapist or abuser. And yes, it is forced, on a societal level. It’s forced on everyone, really. Shaking hands sucks, but it’s one of those things you have to put up with. To avoid it you’d either have to turn into a social freak who sticks out like a sore thumb and be the subject of harsh judgment, or be a hermit. > > ZPG: Instead of stabbing them, why don’t you one up them by offering your hand to them? Now they’re the whore! Oh wait, that doesn’t work for guys I guess. Slut/stud split. I guess fantasizing about slicing into their inards with a blade is better… :o Ahh but that’s not the subject of the thread’s position. Her position is that only whores usually willingly accept a handshake, and such gems as illegitimate children are worthless vampires stealing money from their baby daddy and making the world a worse place. Edit: oh and adoptive parents are probably baby snatchers. ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/206 "2011-01-15T02:13:39Z")
[interjection] On the bright side, she won’t be reproducing … [/interjection] Carry on ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/207 "2011-01-15T02:15:37Z")
Oh, I wouldn’t count on that. In case you haven’t noticed, consistency isn’t really something she concerns herself with. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/208 "2011-01-15T02:17:51Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Why do you think I was so offended by the gesture? I was not a prostitute, but they were treating me like one. It was highly insulting. That’s why the gesture is so disgusting. You can be a perfectly respectable woman but some asshole comes around sticking out his dirty hand and someone can see it and wonder if you are for sale. It simply not right. In retrospect, **I sometimes wish I had stabbed some of those men** , but the past cannot undone. I fight so that other young women do not have to face that humiliation. What a load of idiassery. Turn yourself in. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/209 "2011-01-15T02:19:55Z")
So I gotta ask. If I shake my sister’s hand, is that incest? Is teaching my dog to shake her paw bestiality? Need answer fast! ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/210 "2011-01-15T02:21:48Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > [O rly?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness_raising) Yes, rly. Of course I know what \*consciousness \*raising is, the point was that she used the term \*conscious \*raising - it sounds like an activity where you go around waking other people up. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/211 "2011-01-15T02:22:39Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Ahh but that’s not the subject of the thread’s position. Her position is that only whores usually willingly accept a handshake, and such gems as illegitimate children are worthless vampires stealing money from their baby daddy and making the world a worse place. > Edit: oh and adoptive parents are probably baby snatchers. Who FORCE the poor orphans to lie and call them mom and dad! ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/212 "2011-01-15T02:26:11Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Who FORCE the poor orphans to lie and call them mom and dad! But at least the orphans owe their kidneys to nobody! What I wouldn’t give to have a taste of your sweet freedom! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/213 "2011-01-15T02:29:27Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > …For the sake of time, some of them had to take a foot. 😃 Hmm…not sure that’s good enough. Let me ask the expert and I’ll get back to you on the purchase. **Zealot** , what says you, hawt or not? > [@pravnik](#): > > [Check out _these_ perverts](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WT-fxBNKs8)! (warning: possibly NSFW) :eek: Talk about some hardcore handshaking…damn! I’ll be up all night just thinking about it. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/214 "2011-01-15T02:31:22Z")
I’m shaking my own hand like a mutha right now… ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/215 "2011-01-15T02:37:34Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So I gotta ask. If I shake my sister’s hand, is that incest? Aw, man - I _high-fived_ my own brother just the other day! And he started it, that sneaky would-be rapist! ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/216 "2011-01-15T02:38:19Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > I’m pretty sure \*\*curly \*\*just finally admitted that she’s bat-shit crazy. Will wonders never cease. You are an idiot. That is clearly not what I said. > [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Yeah, but “bombings”? :dubious: I’m sorry, I didn’t see bombings? > [@Pitchmeister](#): > > I can’t believe no one has mentioned the [adoption trainwreck](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=548442). Just when you think it can’t get any crazier, she ups the ante. 9 pages of comedy gold! Uh, yeah, she does come off pretty nutty there… :eek: > [@Meyer6](#): > > FStrangely enough, I was just reading that thread about a week ago (sometimes I like to read trainwrecks, what can I say?), and I really noticed the poor reasoning in this post: > > **Originally Posted by ZPG Zealot, post #420** > [snip]I have always found Guardian to be one of the most noble titles one can accept. It means you have freely chosen to care for a child, […] expecting NOTHING in return as you might a blood relation. > > **back to Meyer6** Second, she says that as a guardian she expects nothing of a child - isn’t that the unconditional thing she just said she hated? As much as I hate interacting with you, I feel compelled to point out that, at least as you have quoted it, that it appears that **ZPG Zealot** means this Guardian person expects no reward or anything different than raising a blood relation. Or she could also mean that in her family blood relations have a duty to support their parents or something, yet if one is a Guardian you would never expect the kids you raised to do so. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/217 "2011-01-15T02:43:34Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Aw, man - I _high-fived_ my own brother just the other day! And he started it, that sneaky would-be rapist! I bet you enjoyed it too! ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/218 "2011-01-15T02:52:09Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > You are an idiot. That is clearly not what I said. Actually, it pretty clearly was. It’s nice to see you finally admit it. > [@](#): > > As much as I hate interacting with you, I feel compelled to point out that, at least as you have quoted it, that it appears that **ZPG Zealot** means this Guardian person expects no reward or anything different than raising a blood relation. Or she could also mean that in her family blood relations have a duty to support their parents or something, yet if one is a Guardian you would never expect the kids you raised to do so. Her whole argument is based on the idea that adoptive parents \*force \*their children to call them Mom and Dad. That their love is _conditional on the child using those terms. Then she says that an adoptive parents unconditional love_ will turn the child into a sociopath. So which is it that adoptive parents have - conditional or unconditional love? It doesn’t matter, they’re terrible people one way or the other in **ZPG** ’s mind. If the guardian is raising the child with no expectation of anything in return (not even the much-coveted childs kidney owed to natural parents), that is unconditional, is it not? So aren’t they raising a little sociopath too? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/219 "2011-01-15T03:00:08Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Actually, it pretty clearly was. It’s nice to see you finally admit it. You are any idiot too, which is why I don’t like interacting with you. Go back and read it with an unbiased eye and remember, the person that I said wasn’t making any sense wasn’t me. Ergo, I am not the one that I termed batshit crazy. Or is your problem you don’t know words like “ergo”? > [@](#): > > Her whole argument is based on the idea that adoptive parents \*force \*their children to call them Mom and Dad. That their love is _conditional on the child using those terms. Then she says that an adoptive parents unconditional love_ will turn the child into a sociopath. So which is it that adoptive parents have - conditional or unconditional love? It doesn’t matter, they’re terrible people one way or the other in **ZPG** ’s mind. As I said, my comment was based on what you quoted. If she has actually said that adoptive parents routinely (I’m sure there are _some_ out there that do so) force their kids to call them Mom and Dad, then yes she is a nutter, at least on that subject. And if she has actually put forth the contradiction you put forth up there, then she has some logic problems. OTOH, you have a history of not understanding posts…😃 > [@](#): > > If the guardian is raising the child with no expectation of anything in return (not even the much-coveted childs kidney owed to natural parents), that is unconditional, is it not? So aren’t they raising a little sociopath too? I have a feeling she thinks unconditional love means the children are not raised with boundaries, rules or consequences. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/220 "2011-01-15T03:03:17Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > I really don’t have a dog in this fight, but just FYI, I don’t think the “old South where men only extended their hands first to hookers” ever existed. It doesn’t and never has. I grew up in the south as did all of my family. It’s just so stupid I chose not to debate it with her. As was said up-thread, she’s over played her hand at this point. **DianaG** , you have made me laugh out loud several times this thread. Thank you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621.md?page=12)