# ZPG Zealot: A troll too far **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621 "2011-01-14T17:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Doctor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Doctor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/361 "2011-01-16T17:26:55Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Or alternatively, she just makes shit up because she’s a compulsive liar and attention whore. > > I’m just throwin’ that out there. I don’t know. Her crazy is pretty consistant. Either she is really good at stacking up the lies, or she really believes the crap she is spouting. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/362 "2011-01-16T17:28:40Z")
Is it even true that Roma tend to hold such beliefs about handshaking? ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/363 "2011-01-16T17:29:32Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I think when the day comes that any of you are ever removed from your little middle class WASP I’m not a WASP. > [@](#): > > (probably mid Western) No. > [@](#): > > communities, that is going to be a spectacular culture shock to realize that not everyone lives the same way. I have a bachelor’s degree in anthropology and have lived in the Middle East, South Asia, and Eastern Europe, so…no. I’m well-aware that not everyone lives in the same way. > [@](#): > > The world has many communities and good manners require respecting those differences not throwing hissy fits of “well I never meant it to mean that” or “that’s not the way we do it my home town.” True. > [@](#): > > Seriously, how do you expect people to even tolerate you when you show such distain for them? Etiquette is about trying not to offend people, not looking for ways to insult them by pressing all the fault lines of human behavior. I’m not really seeing that in this thread. You, as far as I can tell, are the only person who is judging other people by your own culture. You claim that in your culture, it is unacceptable for people to shake hands. That’s fine. Having spent a lot of time around Orthodox Jews, I have been in situations where it is unacceptable to touch members of the opposite sex, even in a friendly or totally non-sexual manner. I wasn’t offended in the slightest. However, in mainstream American culture, shaking hands is pretty ordinary and doesn’t imply anything except “hi”. If you think that I am a whore because I shake hands with a strange man, _you_ are the one judging _me_ on _your_ cultural values, which I do not share. Maybe you’re the one who should learn that different cultures do things differently. By the way, people in the Balkans are the hand-shakingest bunch of folks I’ve ever encountered. I shook more hands in two years in the Balkans than the rest of my life put together, I’m pretty sure. How the hell did you survive living there without shaking people’s hands pretty much constantly? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/364 "2011-01-16T17:36:37Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > This can’t be gotten around. You really expect me to actively insult nearly all the women I interact with on the off, off, _ooooofffff_ chance I meet someone to whom the hand-shake offer is objectionable? Seriously? How could I possibly appease you? Death would probably be acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/365 "2011-01-16T20:31:03Z")
> [@glilly](#): > > I’m starting to wonder if ZPG zealot is actually Roma. Or even living in the south. What actually strikes me as the most absurd of her claims is that she says she’s a librarian. I can believe she spends a lot of time in public libraries, as that’s where plenty of unemployed and/or mentally ill people go during the day, but not that she’s a librarian. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/366 "2011-01-16T20:54:07Z")
> [@glilly](#): > > I’m starting to wonder if ZPG zealot is actually Roma. Or even living in the south. I’ve no opinion on the ‘south’ part, but in the original handshaking=rape thread, at one point she posted something to the effect that if she saw a (non-Roma) doing something or other which she deemed culturally offensive, she would encourage one of the Romas present to steal from the non-Roma. My reaction: :eek: As best I could remember, NO ONE in the thread had made remarks/jokes/whatever putting down Roma culture in any way – and here she was seeming to promote the stereotype of Romas being thieves? Why? Does she really think that is the ‘proper’ way for them to treat offending outsiders? Was that an effort to tempt other posters into displaying a prejudice she thinks she holds? Was it just one of those things where members of a group feel they are allowed to say offensive things about the group? I have no idea. I was too flabbergasted to pursue the thought, and I don’t think anyone else did either. And now you raise the idea that she simply isn’t a Roma at all. In which case, was she displaying a prejudice she holds towards them? I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/367 "2011-01-16T21:13:36Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I think when the day comes that any of you are ever removed from your little middle class WASP (probably mid Western) communities, I’m not a WASP, nor do I live in the mid-west. I’m Catholic and I live in south western Pennsylvania, and I come from a Eastern European background on my mother’s side. Stick that up your ass, missy. Pittsburgh generally isn’t considered your fancy-ass “Wasp-y” town. (We’re not a bunch of hicks, mind you, but we’re not known for being snobs) ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/368 "2011-01-16T21:39:58Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I think when the day comes that any of you are ever removed from your little middle class WASP (probably mid Western) communities, that is going to be a spectacular culture shock to realize that not everyone lives the same way. I actually am from the mid-west (well, the Canadian prairies, which is similarly white-bread, culture wise), and since I left there almost 15 years ago I have been all over the world. I’ve lived in several large cities, spent time in New York and San Fransisco, worked in Eastern Europe and the Caribbean, travelled throughout North America, Australia, and Europe. I’ve even been to the former Yugoslavia, and must concur with \*\*Kyla \*\*that those people were some handshaking mofos if I’ve ever met them. So, if your theory is true, then why have I not simply expired from the spectacular effects of all this culture shock? Maybe because I always knew there were other cultures out there, and seeing the different ways that people live was one of the biggest reasons I did all that travelling. Other cultures are fascinating, and everywhere I’ve ever gone I’ve been respectful of the culture of that place, and almost everyone I’ve met (a few crazies excepted) was perfectly respectful of me and welcomed me in. And yes, that includes some Roma. When you go to a foreign country, you observe the prevailing culture and try to fit in and not offend people. Maybe you should try that, and your own upbringing wouldn’t give you such a narrow view of the world. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2011, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/369 "2011-01-16T21:57:16Z")
I’m an Australian. We shake clock-wise down here. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/370 "2011-01-17T04:53:13Z")
> [@glilly](#): > > I’m starting to wonder if ZPG zealot is actually Roma. Or even living in the south. I vote “absolutely not” on both of these. > [@DianaG](#): > > Or alternatively, she just makes shit up because she’s a compulsive liar and attention whore. > > I’m just throwin’ that out there. This. > [@Lamia](#): > > What actually strikes me as the most absurd of her claims is that she says she’s a librarian. I doubt it. I mean, I’ve run across some clueless librarians in my day (the one who pronounced Socrates as “So crates” [just like those two words] rather than “Sah-kra-tees” comes to mind), but no one would be able to become a librarian and not realize how utterly idiotic, incoherent, and flat-out lunatic these stated beliefs are. She’s either a troll, or she’s mentally ill. But I’ll be willing to bet money that very little of what she’s told about herself is true. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/371 "2011-01-17T05:12:46Z")
Depends on what kind of library she works at. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/372 "2011-01-17T06:14:30Z")
I’m actually pretty sure that **ZPG Zealot** said that she was from Chicago in another thread. There could be a perfectly legit reason she’s now claiming to be from the South (I grew up partly in San Francisco and partly in suburbia, and will sometimes claim to be from a big city and sometimes claim to be from a small town, depending on what point I’m trying to make), but it does make me wonder. ---
**Author:** ![Sonnenstrahl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Sonnenstrahl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sonnenstrahl)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/373 "2011-01-17T06:34:43Z")
It’s actually really a shame that there isn’t a sane Roma poster on this board. It’s a culture I would love to have represented here, and alas, all we have is ZPG Zealot. I always think of this when I see her posts. ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/374 "2011-01-17T07:27:07Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I think when the day comes that any of you are ever removed from your little middle class WASP (probably mid Western) communities, that is going to be a spectacular culture shock to realize that not everyone lives the same way. The world has many communities and good manners require respecting those differences not throwing hissy fits of “well I never meant it to mean that” or “that’s not the way we do it my home town.” Seriously, how do you expect people to even tolerate you when you show such distain for them? Etiquette is about trying not to offend people, not looking for ways to insult them by pressing all the fault lines of human behavior. Sometimes I see where the rage the Islamic fundamentalists have comes from, though I abhor their methods. Seriously, stop acting like spoiled children, before you get spanked. Coming from you, this is fucking hilarious. IF you’re not a troll, you’re the most oblivious, ethnocentric creature that ever walked the face of the earth. > [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **Meyer6** > I am absolutely calling shenanigans on ZPG being fired because she refused to shake hands. I’m betting she really got fired because she wouldn’t stop accusing innocent people of sexual harassment, gave long crazy talks about her insulting pet theories, and tried to solve business problems with various psychic bullshit. Although she may have gotten the axe just because she’s terminally stupid. It’s hard to say. IF she’s not a troll and IF she was actually “fired for shaking hands,” then this was most likely the case. Some poor soul probably offered her his hand, and she immediately kneed him in the groin shouting, “RAPIST!” and then proceeded to accuse her female co-workers of being prostitutes and/or child-snatchers. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/375 "2011-01-17T07:52:36Z")
Holy crap, how did I miss these gems the first time around? > [@White females, are you threatened by men of color in social situations?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-females-are-you-threatened-by-men-of-color-in-social-situations/564177/18): > > A group of men at a party or on the otherside of a club would not bother me. However, it makes me very angry when men from other ethnic groups try to flirt with me. If one of them started to approach me, I would dismiss him quickly. Politely the first time, if he persisted in bothering me, well, I can make grown men burst out crying in under five seconds and there’s always pepper spray. > [@White females, are you threatened by men of color in social situations?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-females-are-you-threatened-by-men-of-color-in-social-situations/564177/21): > > In Roma culture there’s no such thing as dating for the sake of dating. Men and women met and socialize to determine if they want to get married. A man who doesn’t share my culture, language or faith is automatically not acceptable to me as a marriage partner and anyone who has known me for more than a few minutes knows that about me. An unacceptable man who approaches me is knowingly going where he knows he is not welcomed or wanted. He is asking to be insulted and has no right to complain if he is. > [@White females, are you threatened by men of color in social situations?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-females-are-you-threatened-by-men-of-color-in-social-situations/564177/45): > > \*\*I’m originally from Chicago \*\*and lived in Yugoslavia while it was in the process of becoming the former Yugoslavia. In the former Yugos a non-Roma man approaching a Roma woman anywhere would either be involved in the black-market or involved in a lot worse. (Bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/376 "2011-01-17T07:53:39Z")
Has anyone noticed how much ZPG’s writing has improved from the time of the adoption trainwreck to now? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/377 "2011-01-17T14:29:46Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Actually, it isn’t ingrained in many American cultural groups. I grew up in the old South where men only extended their hands first to hookers. Most of my families close non-Roma friends were orthodox Jews or Latino, none of them ever pawed at women, well hookers in bars maybe, but not women they respected. In fact, the only American cultural group that I know of where sticking out a hand at a woman is accepptable is the lower working class sort of redneck culture where the people don’t know how to act like polite members of society. Querida, I’m Latina and if you think that offering a handshake (which, as any other offer, can be refused) is the same as “pawing”, you’re kookoo. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/378 "2011-01-17T14:58:43Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Depends on what kind of library she works at. Not really. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/379 "2011-01-17T15:07:37Z")
\*\*ZPG Zealot \*\*, could you please provide a link to somewhere else on the internet that confirms this ‘Southern custom’? I’m really intruiged! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/380 "2011-01-17T17:25:18Z")
> [@NinetyWt](#): > > … I give as firm a grip as I’m able to without hurting the other person. … most professional people I meet these days give a medium-firm handshake, both men and women. Mmmmm, my gloves are getting tight! 😃 CMC fnord! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621.md?page=20)