# ZPG Zealot: A troll too far **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621 "2011-01-14T17:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/381 "2011-01-17T18:00:14Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Querida, I’m Latina and if you think that offering a handshake (which, as any other offer, can be refused) is the same as “pawing”, you’re kookoo. I wonder that the tender Roma lass has spent so much time in the sort of bar that’s full of hookers being pawed. And see a conflict between her wish to remain true to her community’s traditions & her tale of getting a divorce & an abortion. Will the husband she’s saving herself for accept that she absolutely will not have children & has contempt for adoption? I’ve worked with diverse groups of people, including Orthodox Jews & Muslims–some of whom are definitely stricter than others. When a Pakistani colleague moved out of the state, he gave me a slight bow & smile in farewell. From another guy, a handshake or even a hug would not have been out of line. But I didn’t create a scene. Oh–and her comment about how all previous generations of working women were sex workers definitely says more about her foremothers than mine. As someone with a partly Southern raising, I’ll just have to say “Bless her heart.” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/382 "2011-01-17T18:23:44Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Actually, it isn’t ingrained in many American cultural groups. I grew up in the old South where men only extended their hands first to hookers. Most of my families close non-Roma friends were orthodox Jews or Latino, none of them ever pawed at women, well hookers in bars maybe, but not women they respected. In fact, the only American cultural group that I know of where sticking out a hand at a woman is accepptable is the lower working class sort of redneck culture where the people don’t know how to act like polite members of society. > [@NinetyWt](#): > > I really don’t have a dog in this fight, but just FYI, I don’t think the “old South where men only extended their hands first to hookers” ever existed. > > I was born in Mississippi in 1960 and have lived here all of my life. I have never heard of such a custom or practice, from any of the thousands of Southerners I’ve interacted with over all these years. But she’s not talking about the 1960s when she speaks of the old South. She’s talking about the **18** 60s. You know, the _ **O-O-O-O-LD** _ South. ‘Cos all that talk about how everybody except her _could_ be a baby-thievin’/adoptin’, vital organ-donatin’, handshake rapin’, scum-suckin’ VAMPIRE? That sorta talk? Projection. That’s right, folks, **ZPGZealot** is a true-to-life fortune-telling Roma vampire, and has been all along. Now that we’ve sussed you out and discovered your tawdry little deception, **Z** , there’s really only one thing that can possibly happen next… Could you go over to **MPSIMS** and start an “_Ask the vampire_” thread? I’m sure we’ve all got so much we’d like to ask you! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/383 "2011-01-17T20:22:42Z")
So, twice now IE has crashed while I was attempting to compose my reply. I’m going to sum up even faster this time and actually remember to save this as I go. 1.) You guys are assholes for quadrupling the length of this thread since I left work on Friday evening; fuck IE for being a piece of shit that can’t handle something as simple as keeping track of the contents of text fields before a crash; fuck my employer for forcing us to use obsolete browsers. 2.) The Japanese don’t generally expect Westerners to bow, since we’d mostly just fuck it up; instead in those situations they generally use (gasp! horrors!) handshakes. 3.) The little story was hilarious. 4.) Miss Manners has never claimed that the woman should always initiate a handshake. Here are some snippets from her on the subject of handshakes: > [@](#): > > [T]he higher-ranking person–socially this means women before men, except in the case of presidents, kings, or popes, and the greater age and more exalted positions before the younger and less significant–either sticks out a hand or doesn’t. > [@](#): > > Socially, a lady should extend her hand to a gentleman; in business, the higher-ranking person or the person whose office it is should extend the hand. To refuse to shake a proffered hand is a much greater error–a full-fledged insult, in fact–than the error of extending the hand first when one should have waited. > [@](#): > > True, the lady/older/ranking person should initiate the gesture, but we have to wrestle with identifying which one that is. There are exceptions and objections to hand-shaking, religious, physical, and hygenic, and exemptions are granted. But the gesture itself has been so well known that a refusal to participate has to be explained (“I’m so sorry, but I can’t shake hands”) because a refusal to shake hands is a symbolic insult (and thus a handy gesture when faced with tyrants and outlaws). ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/384 "2011-01-17T20:38:44Z")
> [@](#): > > … because a refusal to shake hands is a symbolic insult (and thus a handy gesture when faced with tyrants and outlaws Well, that explains the whole thing right there! ZPG thinks that EVERYONE except her is a tyrant and an outlaw (All the males are rapist culture-blind, Roma-hating misogynists, and all the females are dirty, trampy, baby-making vampire whores) and so she’s refusing to shake hands with any of us on principle. Obviously, we just didn’t understand the depth of her moral outrage. P’raps she’ll grace us with her presence again and 'splain it to us again so we’re sure to get it this time. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/385 "2011-01-17T21:05:58Z")
Earlier today, strictly in the interest of advancing knowledge of course, I made an appointment with an “escort” (whore). Upon entering her room, I immediately offered her my hand. She re-coiled in horror asking “what do you think I am, some kind of librarian???” So, there ya go. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/386 "2011-01-17T21:15:05Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > I have had many women confide in me how uncomfortable, humiliated and threatened, they have felt by men forcing to shake hands with them. I have known women that have quit their jobs and redrew from public and some who have become dangerously depressed over the lack of respect they have had to work under. > [@DianaG](#): > > You sure do know a lot of pathetically fragile people. She calls them “clients.” Very convenient (for her) how that works out. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/387 "2011-01-17T21:16:51Z")
I just read the whold thread and had to thank ZPG for the laughs. Though I am still torn as to whether she is a troll or just nuts. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/388 "2011-01-17T21:46:23Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > But where? That’s the part that I didn’t get - what is the big deal about calling them “bombings”? What meaning is being read into it? (I don’t know much about \*\*ZPG \*\*, essentially just what has been posted here.) Ordinarily, it wouldn’t make much difference. But there is a wacky conspiracy theory out there that the fall of the WTC towers could not have been caused by ballistic airliners alone. The WCT about the WTC goes on to extrapolate that the towers must therefore have been brought down by a controlled explosion of shaped charges that had been placed at strategic locations in the buildings (bombs, that is). Look up “Truthers” for further information. Thus, when somebody refers to the downing of the towers using the term “bombings,” people who have heard of the WCT are justified in probing further to examine whether that somebody subscribes to the WCT. Had the WCT never been put forward, referring to the attacks as “9-11 bombings” would simply be an awkward phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/389 "2011-01-17T23:07:40Z")
So if a gay man shakes hands with a woman, does he still want to rape her? ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2011, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/390 "2011-01-17T23:58:49Z")
> [@White females, are you threatened by men of color in social situations?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-females-are-you-threatened-by-men-of-color-in-social-situations/564177/21): > > An unacceptable man who approaches me is knowingly going where he knows he is not welcomed or wanted. He is asking to be insulted and has no right to complain if he is. Well you’re here where you know you’re not welcome or wanted. So no complaining if you get insulted! Those are your rules, you should stick to them. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > She calls them “clients.” Very convenient (for her) how that works out. 😃 It occurs to me that the reason ZPG seems to know so many pathetically incompetent women is because the only people she meets are those who go to palm-reading charlatans to solve their problems. People so sad and small that even after that charlatan insults them (eg., by telling an adopter about the evils of adoption), they still keep coming back for more! Truly, these must be the saddest women on earth. Maybe it really is possible that they are threatened by something as simple as shaking hands? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/391 "2011-01-18T00:40:12Z")
Well, obviously Judith Martin is a whore. > [@Lamia](#): > > Not really. I mean, it could be a “library” attached to some kind of unofficial museum of um, her brand of crazy? Perhaps it wasn’t an actual “library” library. ---
**Author:** ![Peeta\_Mellark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Peeta\_Mellark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peeta_Mellark)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/392 "2011-01-18T00:51:58Z")
> [@ZPG Zealot](#): > > **I’m originally from Chicago** and lived in Yugoslavia while it was in the process of becoming the former Yugoslavia. In the former Yugos a non-Roma man approaching a Roma woman anywhere would either be involved in the black-market or involved in a lot worse. > [@ZPG Zealot](#): > > Actually, it isn’t ingrained in many American cultural groups. **I grew up in the old South** where men only extended their hands first to hookers. Most of my families close non-Roma friends were orthodox Jews or Latino, none of them ever pawed at women, well hookers in bars maybe, but not women they respected. In fact, the only American cultural group that I know of where sticking out a hand at a woman is accepptable is the lower working class sort of redneck culture where the people don’t know how to act like polite members of society. Honey, I grew up in the South of the '90s and '00s, but have duly asked my parents and grandmother about this. And they agree on two points: 1) the older or higher ranking person offers a hand first, regardless of gender, and 2) Chicago ain’t the South unless you’re Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![Paranoid\_Randroid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/paranoid_randroid/32/18_2.png) [@Paranoid\_Randroid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paranoid_Randroid)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/393 "2011-01-18T00:57:48Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > So if a gay man shakes hands with a woman, does he still want to rape her? Wait – does a gay man shaking my hand mean he’s going to rape me? I’ve probably shaken hands with – oh, god – scores of gay men. Should I be concerned? This is all so confusing, I don’t know whose hand to shake and whose eyes to spray with mace. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/394 "2011-01-18T01:02:02Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > Wait – does a gay man shaking my hand mean he’s going to rape me? I’ve probably shaken hands with – oh, god – scores of gay men. Should I be concerned? This is all so confusing, I don’t know whose hand to shake and whose eyes to spray with mace. Just play it safe and spray _everyone_ with mace, whether they offer a handshake or not. Because they’ll probably try to shake hands with someone, somewhere, and we all have an obligation to stop this mindless violence. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/395 "2011-01-18T01:03:30Z")
I’ve decided to start carrying a bear trap. Damn, I’ll probably need a bigger purse. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/396 "2011-01-18T01:06:49Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > So, twice now IE has crashed while I was attempting to compose my reply.\ Safari has been crashing on me lately, too - I think the run-up to the 2012 Apocalypse is starting. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/397 "2011-01-18T01:19:47Z")
Since when was Chicago in the old south? How fucking old are we talking here? The Ladinian stage? I for one don’t see a need to answer the question of whether she’s an attention whore, a psycho, or just a fuckin moron. She’s hilarious, and we should keep her. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/398 "2011-01-18T01:23:17Z")
> [@Peeta\_Mellark](#): > > 1. Chicago ain’t the South unless you’re Canadian. Hell, even we know that Illinois don’t count as the South! ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/399 "2011-01-18T01:28:57Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > So if a gay man shakes hands with a woman, does he still want to rape her? No, that just means that they think she’s a prostitute. (My prediction for response, anyway; it seems consistent from everything else the subject of this thread has said here.) ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/400 "2011-01-18T01:40:16Z")
She is from Chicago, grew up in the South, moved to Europe, came back to the U.S. and went to work in a library, where her English skills improved considerably in just one year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621.md?page=21)