# ZPG Zealot: A troll too far **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 14, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621 "2011-01-14T17:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/141 "2011-01-15T00:47:53Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Let me just say I disagree. I totally disagree. A handshake is far from a forced touching. Anyone that throws a hissy fit because someone doesn’t want to rub the flesh of their hand has a problem understanding boundaries. For the record any kind of forced touching not related to law inforcment or life-saving acts is considered assault in the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/142 "2011-01-15T00:48:59Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Let me just say I disagree. I totally disagree. A handshake is far from a forced touching. Yeah, where does she get the idea that it’s forced? I’ve never been forced to shake someones hand in my life. If you don’t want to shake, just say so. Unless she’s refused and the man has then chased her around the office and pinned her down until she finally shook his hand, I don’t think ‘forced’ is remotely the right word to use here. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/143 "2011-01-15T00:49:50Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Anyone that throws a hissy fit because someone doesn’t want to rub the flesh of their hand has a problem understanding boundaries. For the record any kind of forced touching not related to law inforcment or life-saving acts is considered assault in the United States. Please explain how a handshake is a “forced” touching? That’s the part I’m having a problem with. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/144 "2011-01-15T00:50:34Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > You have heard of these things called gloves right? I’ve used those from time to time especially with male clients from the Mid East or India. Aside from that touching someone while giving a reading is considered morally the same as touching someone while performing a medical procedure or preventing an accident. You people really should use your heads for more than just watching Larry the Cable Guy. Oh yeah? Well, how do you pick up on his aura through the rubber glove, hm? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/145 "2011-01-15T00:51:33Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > No, it should be replaced with the idea that a woman is no less a person than a man, and should be treated equally. And the idea that a woman can willingly choose to be touched (or hell, even to be kissed or felt up, if she sees fit) without being branded as a whore. > > Seriously, sexual equality has come a long way. We don’t need people like you pushing it back into the dark ages. Trying to force a woman to touch a man isn’t equality. It’s treating her like an object, a thing for male pleasure, not an equal who has the right not to touched unless she grants permission first. Sexual equality will not get anywhere until this principle is accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/146 "2011-01-15T00:51:38Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The “good girl/whore” distinction should be replaced with the principle that every women should be treated with respect, not the idea that every women can be treated like a whore. Why are you working so hard to tear down other women? And working so hard to impose a narrow, oppresive culture on everybody else? When did respect and considerations for others become such a dirty thing in America? It’s probably from all the handshaking. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/147 "2011-01-15T00:52:38Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Anyone that throws a hissy fit because someone doesn’t want to rub the flesh of their hand has a problem understanding boundaries. For the record any kind of forced touching not related to law inforcment or life-saving acts is considered assault in the United States. Oh, so we’ve moved on from “any man who wants to shake hands with a woman is a rapist, and any woman who agrees to shake hands with a man is a whore,” to something about someone throwing a hissy fit. Yea, that’s…not what you were saying, bitch. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/148 "2011-01-15T00:57:40Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > You have heard of these things called gloves right? I’ve used those from time to time especially with male clients from the Mid East or India. Aside from that touching someone while giving a reading is considered morally the same as touching someone while performing a medical procedure or preventing an accident. You people really should use your heads for more than just watching Larry the Cable Guy. So if the contact is part of business, it’s okay? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/149 "2011-01-15T00:58:23Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Yeah, where does she get the idea that it’s forced? I’ve never been forced to shake someones hand in my life. If you don’t want to shake, just say so. Unless she’s refused and the man has then chased her around the office and pinned her down until she finally shook his hand, I don’t think ‘forced’ is remotely the right word to use here. You have been lucky. I have been fired from several jobs because I refused to compile with assholes sticking out their hands and said quite politely, “My religious beliefs do not permit me to have physical contact with the opposite sex.” None of these were hostress or entertainment jobs where physical contact would be expected. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/150 "2011-01-15T00:58:41Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Aside from that touching someone while giving a reading is considered morally the same as touching someone while performing a medical procedure or preventing an accident. Oh, it’s “considered” that way, huh? Well, I just don’t think it’s enough. Touching while wearing gloves is just like sex with a condom on. It’s still sex, and someone is a dirty, dirty handrapist girl. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/151 "2011-01-15T00:59:32Z")
> [@MissTake](#): > > I’m screwed - a bastard child, adopted by non-family members, who has gone on to pop out a bastard child, who receives child support for popping out said bastard, _and_ I work as a Child Support Officer. > > Be afraid, be very afraid. > > She’s a wingnut. Guess I’m ok, then. I was born to parents who were married to each other, and I have produced no offspring. On the other hand, I did used to do child support for the State years ago. Guess that makes me sorta like the Devil’s lawyer. Odd. I would have thought that gig would pay better. And come with more lustful female sinners and/or sucubi. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/152 "2011-01-15T01:00:17Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > You have been lucky. I have been fired from several jobs because I refused to compile with assholes sticking out their hands and said quite politely, “My religious beliefs do not permit me to have physical contact with the opposite sex.” None of these were hostress or entertainment jobs where physical contact would be expected. You said if I reacted pleasantly you’d suspect I was a whore, but if I acted offended you wouldn’t think so. So, when you spoke politely, were you whore-ified? ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/153 "2011-01-15T01:00:40Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So if the contact is the result of a business transaction, it’s okay? No. If the contact is the result of doing something to save the life or health (physical, mental, spiritual, etc.) of someone, it’s okay. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/154 "2011-01-15T01:00:52Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > So if the contact is part of business, it’s okay? What if they have a latex fetish? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/155 "2011-01-15T01:01:24Z")
Just gotta say this is the funniest thread I’ve read in absolute yonks. The stupid is just mind-boggling. As you were… ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/156 "2011-01-15T01:02:14Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > No. If the contact is the result of doing something to save the life or health (physical, mental, spiritual, etc.) of someone, it’s okay. You have a lot of rules to make it ok when you do it but not when others do it, trolly mctrollerson. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/157 "2011-01-15T01:03:29Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > You have been lucky. I have been fired from several jobs because I refused to compile with assholes sticking out their hands and said quite politely, “My religious beliefs do not permit me to have physical contact with the opposite sex.” None of these were hostress or entertainment jobs where physical contact would be expected. Bullshit. If you were fired from those jobs, it was because you made yourself out to be some sort of fucking martyr by throwing one of those “hissy fits” and accusing men of being rapists because they wanted to shake your fucking hand. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/158 "2011-01-15T01:04:43Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Actually, it isn’t ingrained in many American cultural groups. I grew up in the old South where men only extended their hands first to hookers. Most of my families close non-Roma friends were orthodox Jews or Latino, none of them ever pawed at women, well hookers in bars maybe, but not women they respected. In fact, the only American cultural group that I know of where sticking out a hand at a woman is accepptable is the lower working class sort of redneck culture where the people don’t know how to act like polite members of society. Well, I’ve never been to this Old South populated entirely by Roma, orthodox Jews, Latinos and rednecks, but here in modern Boston we shake hands all the time. All the people. The upper class, the lower class, the middle class, even the librarians… all handshakers. With _each other_, even. It’s like fucking Gomorrah up here. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/159 "2011-01-15T01:05:30Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > You said if I reacted pleasantly you’d suspect I was a whore, but if I acted offended you wouldn’t think so. So, when you spoke politely, were you whore-ified? Do you have any ability to reason about cultures and manner beyond the blue collar straight jacket? I spoke politely, I didn’t let them touch me. At the time, I thought it was the right thing to do. Since then I’ve learned that if you give bigots and bullies an inch they will try to take a foot. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621/160 "2011-01-15T01:05:59Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Well, I’ve never been to this Old South populated entirely by Roma, orthodox Jews, Latinos and rednecks, but here in modern Boston we shake hands all the time. All the people. The upper class, the lower class, the middle class, even the librarians… all handshakers. With _each other_, even. It’s like fucking Gomorrah up here. I was born in and brought up in that Old South, raised partly by a grandmother who would make Scarlet O’Hara’s mother look uncultured. And I never once remember her saying that men who shake hands are rapists, and women who shake hands are whores. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zpg-zealot-a-troll-too-far/567621.md?page=9)