# Zulu's Marching? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 25, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376 "2011-12-25T20:13:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/1 "2011-12-25T20:13:15Z")
I recently watched the 1979 movie Zulu Dawn and it reminded me of one of my dad’s favourite facts, which he used to repeat when the opportunity arose. He stated that when the Zulu warriors were marching into battle they made such a noise that they could be heard coming from fifty miles away. This was used as a means to intimidate their opponents _(it would be pretty intimidating!)_. My dad thought it was pretty unlikely to be true himself but he obviously liked the ‘imagery’. I doubt they could be heard fifty miles away but a large group of determined people making a lot of noise in unison _can_ be heard at a great distance. Anyone have any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/2 "2011-12-25T20:32:35Z")
Another film worth watching is [I[]Zulu!](http://www.amazon.com/Zulu-Stanley-Baker/dp/B00008PC13/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1324845016&sr=1-1)\* with a very young Michael Caine. One of the scenes depicts the Zulu tribe on the march and the noise they made. While it was certainly heard at a distance, fifty miles would be out of the question. One can’t hear a train coming at more than a few miles. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/3 "2011-12-25T20:37:41Z")
The idea that you can hear several th0ousand people fifty miles a way is utterly ridiculous.I think more than likely there’s been confusion with the claim that a Zulu army could march 50 miles in day (though even this claim itself is a massive exaggeration) ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/4 "2011-12-26T00:56:11Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > The idea that you can hear several th0ousand people fifty miles a way is utterly ridiculous.I think more than likely there’s been confusion with the claim that a Zulu army could march 50 miles in day (though even this claim itself is a massive exaggeration) I don’t know about that last bit. Twelve hours at 4mph is 48 miles. Those were (and still are) some tough dudes. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/5 "2011-12-26T07:37:52Z")
Fifty miles is probably an error or an exaggeration, but I do not doubt that they could make a great racket slamming their assegais (spears) or knobkerries (war clubs) against their stiffened cowhide shields in cadence with their march. At Islandlwana they had 20,000 troops, although not all participated in the battle. Descriptions of Greek battles mention the noise of any phalanx in battle to be deafening for probably the same reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/6 "2011-12-26T10:22:18Z")
50 miles in a day may be an exaggeration, but it may not be by much if it is. Stonewall Jacksons ‘foot cavalry’ did a forced march of 35 miles in one day and their kit doubtless weighted more than that of the Zulus. The normal day’s march of a Roman Legion was 15 miles, Caesar was claimed to have made a forced march of 25 miles from his camp, put down rebels and forced marched the 25 miles back to camp at Gergovia in 24 hours, a march of 50 miles with a battle in the middle, pages 252-259 from [here](http://books.google.com/books?id=4q5WAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false) though that too could also be an exaggeration. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/7 "2011-12-26T11:31:40Z")
> [@Disposable Hero](#): > > . . . one of my dad’s favourite facts, which he used to repeat when the opportunity arose. Just curious, but how often would the subject of marching Zulu warriors arise? ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/8 "2011-12-26T13:17:19Z")
“Usuthu!” ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/9 "2011-12-26T13:37:55Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > I don’t know about that last bit. Twelve hours at 4mph is 48 miles. Those were (and still are) some tough dudes. For an army50 miles is right on the edge of what’s possible. Though a Zuku warrior had less kit than say a Roman legionary, you also got to remember the area they operated in was very, very hot for a lot of the year. The real figure is reckoned to be more like a maximum 12 miles a day for Shaka’s Zulu army. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/10 "2011-12-26T13:50:30Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Fifty miles is probably an error or an exaggeration, but I do not doubt that they could make a great racket slamming their assegais (spears) or knobkerries (war clubs) against their stiffened cowhide shields in cadence with their march. At Islandlwana they had 20,000 troops, although not all participated in the battle. > Descriptions of Greek battles mention the noise of any phalanx in battle to be deafening for probably the same reasons. Though 50 miles is a long way from being the edge of realistic in terms of how far that sort of noise can be heard. Just for comparision I live right next door to the site of the World’s 6th (currently) largest music festival and I remember the days when they had a much, much more lax attitude to noise restriction (and I’m guessing at the time it may well have been the World’s largest musical festival). Wind is a factor on how far away you can hear the crowd and music sounds, but I’d say approx. 3miles was the furthest away you can hear anything from that festival and I’d be suprised if a Zulu army could make as much noise as almost 100,000 people and a number of huge PA systems. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/11 "2011-12-26T15:56:31Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Just curious, but how often would the subject of marching Zulu warriors arise? You’d be surprised! Anyway, it does sound like its been a confusion between the alleged distance Zulu warriors could march in a day and the distance from which they could be heard. Not sure how I can break the news to dad that one of his favourite facts has no basis in reality, although to be fair he was pretty sceptical of it himself. Although on the side-question of marching distance I do recall that as part of their assessment SAS applicants were required to cover fifty miles in twenty-four hours while carrying heavy equipment in all weather conditions. > **[UK Joint Special Forces Selection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Special_Forces_Selection)** > > UK Joint Special Forces Selection is the selection and training process for candidates of the United Kingdom Special Forces: Special Air Service, Special Boat Service, and Special Reconnaissance Regiment. Members of the SAS and SBS undergo selection up to the award of a sand-coloured beret to SAS personnel, whereupon SBS candidates undergo further selection to qualify as Swimmer Canoeists, and SAS personnel undergo further specialist training. SRR candidates undergo the Aptitude Phase, before goi... Its mentioned under ‘Endurance’ there, forty miles in twenty hours. I believe it was reduced from fifty miles at some point. Initially read about it in ‘Who Dares Wins’ by Tony Geraghty. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/12 "2011-12-26T20:23:00Z")
> [@These are my own pants](#): > > For an army50 miles is right on the edge of what’s possible. Though a Zuku warrior had less kit than say a Roman legionary, you also got to remember the area they operated in was very, very hot for a lot of the year. The real figure is reckoned to be more like a maximum 12 miles a day for Shaka’s Zulu army. 😕😕😕 South Africa is a temperate country. The average high temperature for Durban, the capital of modern KwaZulu-Natal Province, is around the 70s year-round. The highest average high is 81 in December. Going inland, things get chillier until you hit the Drakenberg mountains, which get heavy snow in winter. Compared to, say, [Rome](http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/weddings/setthedate/average/compare?from=wed_setdate_compare&clocid1=SFXX0011&clocid2=ITXX0067), the Zulu Kingdom was rainy and mild year round. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/13 "2011-12-27T02:29:45Z")
It occurred to me to do the obvious thing and google “zulu 50 miles march” and oddly enough this thread is the first hit. That aside, there are a number sources making the 50 mile a day claim. [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_military_systems_(1800-1900)#From_innovation_to_conservatism:_the_Zulu_military_system): > [@](#): > > Mobility and training. Shaka discarded sandals to enable his warriors to run faster. Initially the move was unpopular, but those who objected were simply killed, a practice that quickly concentrated the minds of available personnel. Shaka drilled his troops frequently, implementing forced marches that could cover more than fifty miles a day. He also drilled the troops to carry out encirclement tactics (see below). Such mobility gave the Zulu a significant impact in their local region and beyond. Essentially the same thing is said at [historyofwar.org](http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/people_shaka_zulu.html), [www.africawithin.com](http://www.africawithin.com/studies/chaka.htm), [linksouthafrica.co.nz](http://linksouthafrica.co.nz/Modules/CMS/Templates/InfoArticle.aspx?url=homeKnowledge-BaseArticle-2About-South-Africa%2fzulu-impi-and-south-african-dance&contentpageid=6cb626fa-b07b-4fd0-be89-3584fcc522c4&templateid=83292af2-c3b6-47bd-bb57-bc7217d5d7af), and [Wars of imperial conquest in Africa by Bruce Vandervort](http://books.google.com/books?id=0eNgUeSBTi0C&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=zulu+50+miles+march&source=bl&ots=2iFAgTv66q&sig=NKptWC9m8FrHB8VFuGcWo59YL-k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=fiX5TuuRBMnw0gHO8uyFAg&ved=0CD0Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=zulu%2050%20miles%20march&f=false). The only dismissive view I could find was from John Laband, also on [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaka), though his claim of a max of 12 miles a day sounds dubious > [@](#): > > Historian John Laband dismisses these stories as myth. “What are we to make, then, of [European trader Henry Francis] Fynn’s statement that once the Zulu army reached hard and stony ground in 1826, Shaka ordered sandals of ox-hide to be made for himself?”[6] > > The idea of a 50 miles (80 km) march in a single day is also dismissed as ridiculous. Laband further claims that even though these stories have been repeated by “astonished and admiring white commentators,” the Zulu army covered “no more than 19 kilometres (12 mi) a day, and usually went only about 14 kilometres (8.7 mi).”.[6] Furthermore, Zulus under Shaka sometimes advanced more slowly. They spent two whole days recuperating in one instance, and on another they rested for a day and two nights before pursuing their enemy.[6] Several other historians of the Zulu, and the Zulu military system however, affirm the mobility rate of up to 50 miles per day.[13] Oh yeah, I also wanted to second **Chefguy** on recommending Zulu, fantastic movie. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/14 "2011-12-27T04:20:10Z")
While I find the fifty miles per day figure questionable _(although I asked an ex-army friend tonight and he said it was eminently possible)_ I also find the eight or twelve miles march per day figure unreasonably low. As someone upthread noted the average walking speed is three or four miles per hour and people can certainly walk for extended periods at a time, and very fit people should be able to perform markedly better than that. In fact when I was growing up myself and my friends used to walk between local villages several times in a night out _(rural area, not much to do!)_ averaging about nine miles per night, before walking home, a further five miles. And that was just casually strolling and not in the least bit strenuous. And what about persistance hunting? > **[Persistence hunting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting)** > > Persistence hunting, also known as endurance hunting or long-distance hunting is a variant of pursuit predation in which a predator will bring down a prey item via indirect means, such as exhaustion, heat illness or injury. Hunters of this type will typically display adaptions for distance running, such as longer legs, temperature regulation, and specialized cardiovascular systems. > Some endurance hunters may prefer to injure prey in an ambush before the hunt and rely on tracking to find their ... It states that Kalahari bushmen will track their prey for two to five hours in high temperatures averaging 16 to 22 miles in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/15 "2011-12-27T04:48:06Z")
A significant difference between subsistence hunters and armies on the march, even primitive armies like the Impis, is that the latter have to bivouac and at times throw up hasty fortifications, all of which take time. Moreover, an army on a significant extended road march will have to forage, unless the army has prepared the route with food caches. Again, this takes time. I was interested in your OP, and looked up several accounts of marching in the ancient world. I thought the Zulus would be comparable. [This site](http://www.garyb.0catch.com/march7_days/march_days.html) goes into considerable detail about the Roman legion, including marching distances. [Another site](http://www.tulane.edu/~august/H310/handouts/Military_d.htm) goes into detail about marching distances for Xenophon’s 10,000. Finally, here are some more links that discuss historical long marches. [1](http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/history/marshall/military/mil_hist_inst/m/march2.asc), [2](https://rdl.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/9499-1/fm/21-18/fm21_18.pdf). 50 miles is an insanely long distance for an army to march in one day, even considering 24 hours of continuous marching over flat land in temperate conditions. I can’t rule out that they did it once—Caesar’s account of Gergovia aside—but I doubt they kept it up for extended periods. One hilarious thing you’ll find researching the subject are all of the message boards filled with guys trying to top each other ([E.g.](http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/1-5612.aspx)) “You think 30 miles was hard? We had to do (in XYZ regiment) 50 miles with 30 kg of kit, uphill through the snow, both ways, and then had to assault an entrenched ridge line.” And so on… ---
**Author:** ![YoDoc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e68b1a/32.png) [@YoDoc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YoDoc)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/16 "2011-12-27T04:58:47Z")
50 miles is a lot for an army “on the move”, but I saw that at least one link specified that distance was for training purposes, which is altogether different. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/17 "2011-12-27T14:11:15Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > A significant difference between subsistence hunters and armies on the march _SNIP_ And so on… Thanks Gray Ghost, that does add some context. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/18 "2011-12-27T15:05:52Z")
Hmmm… I could hear the recent U2 concert, mainly as a dull roar, five and a half miles away from the stadium. I don’t recall which way the wind was blowing, but it wasn’t noticeable IIRC. Which bring up the next question - is U2 louder than a Zulu army? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/19 "2011-12-27T19:11:10Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if Zulus could get close to 50 miles in a one-time push if they were properly motivated. Like, if someone put an inappropriate apostrophe in their thread title. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/zulus-marching/607376/20 "2011-12-29T23:36:57Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if Zulus could get close to 50 miles in a one-time push if they were properly motivated. > > Like, if someone put an inappropriate apostrophe in their thread title. Pfftttt…Zulu’s don’t scare me… SIZE=“1”[/SIZE]