Sorry, but as you dig, Pearl Harbor and 9/11 is NOT that good a comparison!

Great Debates
1

This article kind of rankled me a bit:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020911-8429718.htm

I realize that we as a country could always be tougher, I’ll be the first one to tell you that.

But to insinuate as this article seems to that we are wimpier than the so-called “Greatest Generation” by using the subdued one year “anniversary” of Pearl Harbor as an example is a mistake. Here’s why:

-The attack on Pearl Harbor took place at a remote outpost on an American territory, not a state, 3000 miles off the coast of California in the Pacific Ocean. 9/11 took place right in the heart of New York City, our largest city, on American soil.

-2000 uniformed soldiers died in Pearl Harbor; 3000 civilians, many of them women and mothers, died in 9/11 (I’d like to set aside the Pentagon crash site for the sake of simplicity). Not that 2000 soliders getting killed is not a tragedy; but isn’t it more traumatizing when people, many of them our neighbors, supposedly not in the line of fire get killed?

I hate to say “they were soldiers, and that sometimes is what happens in battle”, but when you think about it, soldiers getting killed is less of a shock- it’s part of the job.

-The attack on Pearl Harbor was done with military planes on a military target; the WTC was attacked by a civilian airliner on a civilian target- a situation many Americans could see themselves pictured in.

-The deaths of 2000 soldiers touched every city and town in America, each in it’s own small way. Talk to most New Yorkers, and they will tell you that they know someone who died in the WTC- therby 911 traumatized an entire city, something that really didn’t happen after Pearl Harbour.

-The author also contends we awere too busy with World War 2 to grieve. Well, how can you compare World War 2 to the smaller scale war that is going on now?

-Also, 9/11 has the added factor of 300 police and firemen- again, people we can easily identify with and see every day, as opposed to military personnel, running TOWARDS the buildings to rescue all those people, only to get killed as heroes when they collapsed. There were heros 12/7/41 but here simply is not any story on the same scale at Pearl Harbor.

Another intangible is the shocking site of the WTC collapsing over and over again, an image that makes the grainy black and white footage of the attack on Peark Harbour pale in comparison.

In short, YES, many Americans are traumatized, and feel a need to remember 9/11 because in short, while Pearl Harbor was a shock, and a tragedy, 9-11 is much more a strike into the heart of America.

This is not a “our tragedy was worse than your tragedy” thread- but to imply we are “mawkish” because there are anniversaries today as opposed to how our grandparents recognized Pearl Harbor, well it doesn’t wash out, sorry.

It the Japanese had sent suicide bombers to topple the Empire State Building, I’m sure it would have been a different story.

2

Major quibble: American Territories actually are American soil, thus the adjective American.

3

Vinnie: I agree with you completely. I thought the exact same thing a year ago when people first started making the comparison.

4

Anything to felate the overfelated “Greatest Generation.”

5

Another problem is that in WWII we had some obvious and pretty tough enemies to face down, and having done that we could feel that we had really stopped the agressors and accomplished something pretty darn major on a world scale. In this situation, the actual people who carried out the attacks were a fairly small number of fanatics who all purposefuly killed themselves, and their allies don’t seem to give a flying shit if we kill them up or not. There’s not a lot of real satisfaction in that. At least with the Japanese we could see that what they were doing was a tactic on massive scale that had a real point to it (even if it went badly for them, missing most of our main fleet). But with Al Queda, it’s just kind of pointless: so there’s much more of a sense that this was, well, senseless. Some violent zealots killed thousands, but the direct actors are dead, and their leaders are fairly easily killed off as well. We’re left wondering what the hell happened, and why.

6

I would just echo that the impact of the media is huge. Many many millions of people watched the towers come down live on tv. (plus the reruns as you point out) Also I think the attack in DC and the crash in PA contribute, there was such a sense that any and every place was a target.

7

Hmm. For once (I think) I agree with all prior posts.

8

I don’t think that the “Greatest Generation” had Pearl Harbor benefit concerts where they all held each other and discussed their feelings. There was not a constant barrage of memorial shows with slow motion shots of the USS Arizona exploding while Enya plays in the background. I can’t help wonder if Americans from all over the country came to Hawaii to gawk at the wreckage like it was an attraction at Disneyland.

I think everyone was too busy rationing gas and pantyhose while the men went off to kill Japs and Jerries.

Let’s face it times are diferent now. 400,000 Americans were killed in WWII (not to mention millions of Japanese, Europeans and Russians). Compare that to a few dozen Americans in Afganistan and most of those were friendly fire.

WWII was a war in the calssical sense between empires. The War on Terrorism is basically just exterminating vermin with B52s and AC-130 gunships.

People back in the day did not bitch and moan about “collateral damage” and “prisoners rights”. Compared to a hundred B17s carpet bombing a city to hit a ball bearing plant, laser guided smart bombs are about the best you can hope for. And I’m not going to shed any tears if someone “forgets” to puch air holes in the containers carrying Al Quida prisoners. Sorry man…it’s not like you were drafted into Al Quaida.

Seems like the only thing that people feel from 9/11 is sad:(, and thats fine. Personally, I think that people should feel one of two emotions…anger and/or rage :mad: .

9

I think it had more to do with the culture rather than who died and how. If Pearl Harbor happened in today’s culture with today’s media saturation, it would be the same thing.

10

People are too quick to conflate the media’s reaction to 9/11 with the reaction of regular Americans. The media are in business to make money and they accomplish this by continuously stirring up our emotions, examining and reexamining lurid stories from every possible angle, and milking a tragedy for every drop of sensationalism it’s worth (and then some). If you were to judge America’s emotional response to 9/11 by what’s on TV you’d think we were a bunch of blubbering, Oprah-watching, emotional basket cases who can’t handle a tragedy with stoicism or poise the way the “Greatest Generation” did. But the WWII generation didn’t have talk shows and obsessive pundits and book deals and a hyper-commercialistic media to turn Pearl Harbor into a circus.

11

You are a disgusting human being. I fear for the everyone on this planet when I hear comments like these.

12

Cite?

13

Jenner, I feel much the same. Also, I’m alarmed that the news culture has placed a pressure on world events such that every issue of a weekly magazine must have stories that demonstrate “progress” on important issues – those treated with elaborate graphics and poignantly “truthful” photographs – all of last month. There’s no reason why all problems should be resolved at the convenience of TV broadcasts and magazine deadlines. Nations in the past lived for decades with international problems, we could too. Except we’re so bloody impatient, these days.

However, the PR folks in WWII were playing their own sorts of games – shameless misacrepresentations on all sides – one can equally imagine that PR has played a part in many historical conflicts. I’m not sure there was a way to control the hype, during the WWII era. But there certainly is now.

14

I have to agree that the media whips this stuff up in a way that they didn’t or couldn’t sixty years ago.

I saw the USS Arizona wreckage in April. People have been going to Pearl Harbor to see it for many years.

It’s as it’s always been. There is a public service or memorial of some sort. Individuals commemorate events in their own ways.

15

Fortunately we have Michal Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer for that.

Thank you for making my point for me. These are people who want to do everything in their power to kill you and your family and all you can say is “sniff I fear for everyone on the planet”:(?

16

Fortunately we have Michal Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer for that.

Thank you for making my point for me. These are people who want to do everything in their power to kill you and your family and all you can say is “sniff I fear for everyone on the planet”:(?

17

Fortunately we have Michal Bay and Jerry Bruckheimer for that.

Thank you for making my point for me. These are people who want to do everything in their power to kill you and your family and all you can say is “sniff I fear for everyone on the planet”:(?

18

[Moderator Hat ON]

Direct personal insults are not allowed in this forum, samboy.
[Moderator Hat OFF]

19

Gaudere

I apologise msmith537. I should have realised this is not the forum for those kinds of comments.

20

Well, I’ll disagree with this.

You may not have heard the story 200 times on the radio, TV, and newspapers in the last year, but there were thousands of people running to help during the attack on Pearl Harbor. During the attack on September 11, 300 professionals died in the course of their job in New York and another 200 or so in the Pentagon, whereas during the attack on Pearl Harbor, 2000 professionals lost their lives.

They were mostly military personnel, sure, but what is the huge difference? Aren’t we often told how tough the policeman’s and fireman’s jobs are because they risk their lives daily? (And BTW, I generally agree with this thinking, it can be extraordinary difficult and stressful life, and I for one am very glad there are people willing to do it, and think that they generally deserve all the praise they get and then some!).

I don’t necessarily think that we’re all wimps these days when compared with the WWII generation. But saying that the level of heroism shown during the tragedies last year were of a far larger scale then the heroism displayed during December 1941 (and the years before and after by many people, not just Americans) seems to show some ignorance of the events of WWII, or maybe the attitude that something that happened 60 years ago can’t be possibly be important.

Personally, I think that in both cases the crises brought out the best in the group of people who were on the front lines. And I think that in both cases, many of those people acted with great bravery and heroism.

Ugly