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  #1  
Old 12-06-2002, 09:43 AM
Spiff Spiff is online now
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Should I, a male, try to join 'Curves' - a female-only exercise club?

There's a 'Curves' exercise club opening nearby where I work -- it's so close I could walk there and exercise over my lunch hour. In other words, it would be the perfect place for me, convenience-wise.

Should I make a stink about this facility being a women-only club and try to get a membership?

'Curves' is a national (U.S.) organization that's made someone very rich -- franchises are opeing up everywhere it seems.

And is it fair to compare this to the Augusta country club situation? That male-only club is hosting the Master's golf tournement next year and NOW has its panties in a bunch over this, and wants the club to admit women.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander, eh?
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  #2  
Old 12-06-2002, 09:50 AM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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But spiff, at Augusta, extremely wealthy, privileged women are being denied the same opportunities that extremely weathy, privileged men enjoy.
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  #3  
Old 12-06-2002, 09:53 AM
UDS UDS is offline
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I wouldn't bother applying - you'll be rejected.

This is perfectly lawful.

If you feel victimised by this you can campaign publicly against it, and hope either to get the policy changed or the law changed through the force of public opinion.

Which is pretty much what NOW is doing.

How is this a great debate?
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  #4  
Old 12-06-2002, 09:54 AM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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Re: Should I, a male, try to join 'Curves' - a female-only exercise club?

Quote:
Originally posted by Spiff
...it's so close I could walk there and exercise over my lunch hour...
WALK?!?

Walk to an exercise club?!?

What the hell are you thinking?
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  #5  
Old 12-06-2002, 10:05 AM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is offline
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Feel free to make a stink.

Free speech is just as protected as free association.

But it isn't NOW, its the National Council of Women's Organizations (NCWO). NOW has its panties in a bunch over things like equal pay for equal work, affirmative action, welfare reform, abortion rights, gay and lesbian equality. They've issued statements in support of the NCWO and Martha Burk, but they aren't directly involved in this issue.
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2002, 10:13 AM
ouisey ouisey is offline
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While you're attempting to join Curves, you should explain to them how you're trying to get a hot bod so that you can apply for that job at Hooters.
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  #7  
Old 12-06-2002, 10:18 AM
kaiju kaiju is offline
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Can't speak for your local franchise, but at ours they said, if a man wanted to join, they wouldn't be thrilled, but they wouldn't stop him.

But, have you ever been in a Curves? It's more like an aerobics class than a workout. You go twice around a circuit in a half an hour and change machines every 30 seconds. It takes almost exactly 30 minutes. Woe be onto you if you want to go faster or slower, that's not the way it's done. There is no locker room, you chnage in the bathroom and if you sweat you shower at home.

But if you really want to come work out with me, while "It's Rainin' Men" blares in the background...

Well, "You go boy."
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  #8  
Old 12-06-2002, 10:19 AM
astro astro is offline
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The point of curves is that women can go in all unkempt and funky like, jiggling like a big 'ol bowl of Jello and exercise at their most funkified levels in a room where the air is laden with bad breath and the acrid funk of a room full of sweaty 30 to 50 something flabby, overweight females.... and that they can do all this without being concerned about primping for a potential patriarchial presence.

Do you really want to be there?
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2002, 10:34 AM
ouisey ouisey is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by astro
...where the air is laden with bad breath and the acrid funk of a room full of sweaty 30 to 50 something flabby, overweight females....

Do you really want to be there?
Sigh. Now that I'm 31, sometimes the reality of my new age group really just smacks up in my face.

At least I'm on the lower end still.
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2002, 10:56 AM
Liberal Liberal is offline
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No. You should not.
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  #11  
Old 12-06-2002, 11:24 AM
Spiff Spiff is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by UDS
I wouldn't bother applying - you'll be rejected.

This is perfectly lawful.

If you feel victimised by this you can campaign publicly against it, and hope either to get the policy changed or the law changed through the force of public opinion.

Which is pretty much what NOW is doing.

How is this a great debate?
I posted this in Great Debates because my OP raises, I think, issues such as what legal leeway do private businesses have to discriminate? How much leeway should they have?

To wit, I open a resaturant. For argument's sake, let's call it Denny's. I refuse to serve food to blacks (or I serve it to them v-e-r-y slowly. Is that my right?

Of course, I chose Denny's because they have been (rightly) sued more than once for doing just that.

So why is what Denny's did wrong, but what Curves has adoptd as a corporate policy O.K.?

Yes, most restaurants, bars, retail stores, etc. have a notice posted such as "Management reserves the right to refuse service to any client" or some such, but there are legal limits to that management right. Especially if management exercises that right in a pattern of discrimination against a particular group.

P.S. I was unaware of the nature of the 30-minute Curves workout routine (thanks astro). Sounds like I really DON'T want to join it. I was, however, aware of the fact that the raison d'etre of Curves is to allow women the freedom to exercise in an enviroment where they are allowed to 'glow' without feeling self-conscious about it.
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2002, 11:29 AM
Liberal Liberal is offline
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Authoritarians make arbitrary distinctions between so-called public facilities and private ones. They discriminatorily prohibit discriminatory prohibitions in public facilities.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2002, 12:46 PM
irishgirl irishgirl is offline
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women only gyms cater to many women who simply CANNOT use a mixed facility because of cultural or religious beliefs.

if you were to join you may deny some of these ladies the use of the gym...

just a thought.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2002, 12:54 PM
Dread Pirate Jimbo Dread Pirate Jimbo is offline
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This is going to get me in trouble, but...

In my experience, the general free-world attitude is that the only group capable of discrimination is men. More particularly, white men. Discrimination against men, such as the Curves policy, is called "Affirmative Action" and is an acceptable means of protecting and responding to the oppressive, discriminatory behaviour of every single man in the history of the world, including you. Your challenge will only label you as a jerk who is trying to destroy the few advances that oppressed peoples have gained in the last century. Pardon my abrasive, over-the-top manner of making my point.

(Heaving giant chip off his shoulder,) I think places like Curves are a great idea. Don't try to get in. Too many people have worked too hard to earn the right to create places where they can go to enjoy themselves and feel comfortable with their surroundings and their fellow people. Getting in just to prove a point is a bad idea. Find the nearest Y and go there instead.
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2002, 01:06 PM
amarinth amarinth is offline
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You need more experience.
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  #16  
Old 12-06-2002, 01:44 PM
Spiff Spiff is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dread Pirate Jimbo
[BFind the nearest Y and go there instead. [/B]
Yabbut, should I join the YMCA or the YWCA?
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  #17  
Old 12-06-2002, 02:20 PM
beagledave beagledave is offline
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What if business deals are discussed during the 30 minute cycles?
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2002, 02:40 PM
tracer tracer is online now
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I hasten to add that in Shallow Hal, which is quite possibly the greates movie of this millennium (so far), Hal was shown working out at an exercise club called "The Arboretum for women".
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  #19  
Old 12-06-2002, 03:30 PM
Blacksheepsmith Blacksheepsmith is offline
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No.

Don't be dumb.
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  #20  
Old 12-06-2002, 03:47 PM
shiki shiki is offline
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You could also throw in the public institution crap... I can't remember what the ruling was, but there was that whole thing with the Boy Scouts of America supporting the troop that booted out a gay Troop Leader or something?

What would the difference be between an organization like the BSA (for which you have to pay for membership, I think) and a pay-to-use facility (or class, or whatever) like this?

On a separate tangent, as a woman, I think that if a male tried to join a women-only exercise club/facility like the one you speak of, I would be more inclined to think that they're there to check out boobies, as opposed to actually exercise (not you, of course :P).

Not to be sexist or anything, mind you; but you have to wonder what a male would be doing trying to get into a specifically female-oriented place like that, especially since I think most males would be uncomfortable joining one (from being the lone male, because other men might think him unmanly, whatever.).
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  #21  
Old 12-06-2002, 03:48 PM
Eva Luna Eva Luna is online now
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I don't think you should do it. There must be some other way you can get exercise on your lunch hour. Let the women have their space. Not on moral principle, but just to be nice.

That said, when I was in a wheelchair for an extendedperiod after leg surgery, the wicked side of me did want to go into Hooters and apply for a job, just for laughs. (I do have hooters, after all; how could they, in good conscience, say no? And that business about the chain being names for owls was just ridiculous.)
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  #22  
Old 12-06-2002, 04:14 PM
Truth Seeker Truth Seeker is offline
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Actually, Spiff, what you ought to do is try and get a job there. Unless it involves a bona fide occupational qualification, employment discrimination based on sex is illegal in both Canada and the U.S., I believe. I do not believe "Our clients wouldn't like it." is bona fide occupational qualification. It certainly cuts no ice with respect to racial discrimination.

Quote:
originally posted by Irishgirl
women only gyms cater to many women who simply CANNOT use a mixed facility because of cultural or religious beliefs.

if you were to join you may deny some of these ladies the use of the gym...
Now here's a debate. Are you "catering" or "pandering?" There are some basic tenets that western liberal democracy holds dear. Equality is one of them. If a society decides that that means sexual segregation ought to be prohibited along with racial segregation, perhaps those with incompatible cultural or religious beliefs ought to find a new society to live in. Western liberal democracies ought to strive to be as inclusive and as tolerant as possible. Nonetheless, there are limits.

To use a slightly OT example, suppose my religion teaches that gays are evil sinners. I am certainly free to think this and even to argue this. However, if I live in a society that prohibits discrimination based on sexual preference, I am still not allowed to discriminate against gays in my dealings with society at large. I cannot, for example, start the "God Hates Fags" health club chain so that like-minded straights can work out in a comfortable, non-threatening environment.

If you're an immigrant and you come from a culture that insists on strict segregation of the sexes, you have a stark choice. You can either adapt your lifestyle to Western liberal norms or you can find another society in which to live. When I say a stark choice, I mean exactly that. There are lots of reasons why people seek to immigrate to the West. Some people are attracted to western social values. Others are fleeing persecution. Many come seeking a better way of life for themselves and their families. All ought to be welcome. However, if someone says, "I want to come to your country because it is safer than mine/I can make big bucks/it has nicer weather, etc. but I reject the basic tenets of your society," how should we react?
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  #23  
Old 12-06-2002, 05:17 PM
jeevmon jeevmon is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by irishgirl
women only gyms cater to many women who simply CANNOT use a mixed facility because of cultural or religious beliefs.

if you were to join you may deny some of these ladies the use of the gym...

just a thought.
I suppose that is one group of users, but [gross stereotype] I would think that most women who cannot use mixed facilities because of religious or cultural beliefs are also part of cultures in which athletic/ exercise activity by women is not actively encouraged [/gross stereotype].

My health club in downtown Chicago has a separate "women's only" workout room with some weight machines and cardio equipment. Women are not barred from the rest of the gym (except the men's locker room, naturally), but the separate room is supposed to give them a more secluded space to work out free from guys and the macho posturing that some guys tend to engage in around women in the gym environment.
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  #24  
Old 12-06-2002, 05:42 PM
irishgirl irishgirl is offline
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truth seeker, you said that the women i referred to were women who have come to the US.

i said no such thing.

actually, i was thinking about the wives of Bob Jones University students.

really.

they are required to attend women only excercise classes and gym sessions.

or their husbands risk expulsion.

i thought "curves" would be perfect for the homegrown christian fundies too...

in other words, i make a point, giving a reason other than the one astro posed, for the existence of these gyms, and you turn it into a rant against immigrants not wanting to accept american culture l,s&b.
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  #25  
Old 12-06-2002, 05:58 PM
ralph124c ralph124c is offline
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Can I make Money By Sueing "Curves"?

Hell, sounds like "Curves"is practicing discrimination against men! We can't have that! Who wants to be my lawyer? I bet this is worth a few million bucks!
Where's "DEWY CHEATEM & HOWE" when you need them?
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  #26  
Old 12-06-2002, 06:32 PM
Angel of the Lord Angel of the Lord is offline
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I wouldn't suggest it. Odds are that most of the excercize options there will be geared towards women. You'll probably get it--they're not going to want to make a stink over you--but it won't be all that enjoyable.

As an aside...a lot of women go to all-female exercize clubs simply to avoid the (perhaps wholly perceived) problem of males gawking at them. You might end up making those women feel extremely uncomfortable.

However, if you've got your heart set on Curves...::shrug::
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  #27  
Old 12-06-2002, 06:53 PM
clairobscur clairobscur is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Truth Seeker
[
Now here's a debate. Are you "catering" or "pandering?" There are some basic tenets that western liberal democracy holds dear. Equality is one of them. If a society decides that that means sexual segregation ought to be prohibited along with racial segregation, perhaps those with incompatible cultural or religious beliefs ought to find a new society to live in. Western liberal democracies ought to strive to be as inclusive and as tolerant as possible. Nonetheless, there are limits.
[/B]

Hmmm...But would you extend this to for instance, hammans? Would you forbid them to segregate people on the basis of their sex?
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  #28  
Old 12-06-2002, 08:01 PM
Truth Seeker Truth Seeker is offline
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Quote:
Hmmm...But would you extend this to for instance, hammans? Would you forbid them to segregate people on the basis of their sex?

Good question. Probably not. However, to quote Emerson, a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, so I'm not too concerned.

We could debate the nuances of where to draw the line in any particular case. Is sexual segregation OK in public restrooms. Sure. Is it OK in education? Probably not. Is OK in the workplace? Definitely not.

My inent, however, was to highlight a more fundamental philosophical point. Multiculturalism in western liberal democracy is a good thing. But it doesn't -- indeed it can't -- mean that different cultural groups are necessarily free to create hermetically-sealed enclaves where they can carry on unmolested by the rest of society.

Multiculturalism is a misnomer. It doesn't mean that a society contains many different cultures, it means that a society has one culture with many different facets. For multiculturalism to work at all, therefore, there must be agreement on the basic tenets of society.

Racism is a good example. Racism and multiculturalism are obviously incompatible. Therefore, a multicultural society must insist that its members abandon racial discrimination. In other words, I couldn't care less whether your religion teaches that blacks are the spawn of Satan, the restaurant you own is going to serve blacks and it's going to hire blacks. Yes, the state is forcing you to choose between living in this society, owning a restaurant and your religion. Tough.
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  #29  
Old 12-06-2002, 09:36 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is offline
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In California, you would likely be able to force your acceptance through court action, citing the state's very aggressive anti-discrimination in business statute (the Unruh Act, found roughly at Section 51 of the Civil Code if I haven't totally forgotten in the years since I last looked, and, no, I'm not bothering to look it up now). California's courts interpret this very liberally on purpose. Note that they have prevented bars from having "Ladies' Nights", and precluded a private country club from discriminating against a woman on the basis that the club had a pro shop and a dining room that was used by the public (if Augusta National was located in California, the Masters thing would be slam dunk).

Other states, however, take less liberal approaches. And given that the OP lives in Canada (I guess; I'm not sure what "Canadia" is), I can't even guess what the state of anti-discrimination by business/club law is north of that part of the North American continent reasonably considered habitable.
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  #30  
Old 12-07-2002, 02:00 AM
LadyAvalonian LadyAvalonian is offline
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It does beg the question, though. Why is there not a club entitled "Ridges for Men"?

"Angles for Men"?

"Lines for Men"?

Thinking geometry here (al but the ridges thing), but go ahead and read into it. Could make for amusing conversation.
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  #31  
Old 12-07-2002, 05:19 PM
bobkitty bobkitty is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Truth Seeker
Actually, Spiff, what you ought to do is try and get a job there. Unless it involves a bona fide occupational qualification, employment discrimination based on sex is illegal in both Canada and the U.S., I believe. I do not believe "Our clients wouldn't like it." is bona fide occupational qualification. It certainly cuts no ice with respect to racial discrimination.
When I checked into our local Curves, one of the people doing the tours was male; since I highly doubt that it was because my geographic location is progressive, I think that Curves does not have an employment policy against hiring men if they are qualified as a trainer or PR person.

Also, this, posted by Spiff:

Quote:
I was, however, aware of the fact that the raison d'etre of Curves is to allow women the freedom to exercise in an enviroment where they are allowed to 'glow' without feeling self-conscious about it.
Isn't exactly true. It's part of it, but their raison d'etre is also because they've designed a workout routine specifically catering to the "target areas" women are most concerned about. So instead of having to participate in a mixed-gender class, women can get the entire workout they need in a short period of time. Or at least that's what their PR person told me.

That said, I wouldn't recommend trying to get a membership for the simple reason that it's not the best setup. Kaiju described it well; for a total beginner, or someone with muscle problems like I have, the intensity and speed of the workout is simply not a viable option. How about walking to and from the facility every day at lunch and considering that your exercise?

-BK
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  #32  
Old 12-08-2002, 12:17 AM
amarinth amarinth is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by bobkitty
Isn't exactly true. It's part of it, but their raison d'etre is also because they've designed a workout routine specifically catering to the "target areas" women are most concerned about. So instead of having to participate in a mixed-gender class, women can get the entire workout they need in a short period of time. Or at least that's what their PR person told me.
I have also heard that the machines they use are proportioned more correctly for more women than traditional machines are. Shorter somethings, different ratios between certain body parts (ok, I wasn't paying very close attention - but according to them, even after adjusting, traditional machines are wrong for a lot of women, these fix that problem.)
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  #33  
Old 12-09-2002, 09:28 AM
Spiff Spiff is online now
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DSYoungEsq, "Canadia" is a joke. I actually live in the States, although so close to Canada that no one here gets in a hissy fit if they get a Canadian coin or two in their change.
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  #34  
Old 12-09-2002, 09:44 AM
TwistofFate TwistofFate is offline
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Let them have their women only gym. Alot of women are very nervous about their appearance and can take comfort that they can exercise without the problem of looking bad infront of a man, or enjoy some time where they can excercise and aren't in danger of getting hit on by some sweaty lothario.
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  #35  
Old 12-09-2002, 01:59 PM
suranyi suranyi is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DSYoungEsq
In California, you would likely be able to force your acceptance through court action, citing the state's very aggressive anti-discrimination in business statute (the Unruh Act, found roughly at Section 51 of the Civil Code if I haven't totally forgotten in the years since I last looked, and, no, I'm not bothering to look it up now). California's courts interpret this very liberally on purpose.
I live in California (the Bay Area) and there's a women-only fitness club only a few blocks from my house.

Ed
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  #36  
Old 12-09-2002, 02:43 PM
panamajack panamajack is offline
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Pardon the hijack, but what is a 'hamman'? Can't find it in dictionaries & web searches call up the surname. I'm guessing it might be some ethnic/social group?
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  #37  
Old 12-09-2002, 02:57 PM
Spiff Spiff is online now
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A turkish bath.
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  #38  
Old 12-09-2002, 03:00 PM
Ethilrist Ethilrist is offline
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Even better: You could dress up as a woman and lie on your application; that way, if you got in, you could sell the story! Instant Movie of the Week! You'd be famous!
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  #39  
Old 12-09-2002, 07:33 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by irishgirl
women only gyms cater to many women who simply CANNOT use a mixed facility because of cultural or religious beliefs.

if you were to join you may deny some of these ladies the use of the gym...

"CANNOT" is incorrect. "CHOOSE to NOT" is correct. Except maybe in some Islamic nations where this could be illegal.;j
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  #40  
Old 12-11-2002, 08:51 AM
Susanann Susanann is offline
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No, you should not join.

And I question your motives for wanting to join a womens group.

Womens only organizations, clubs, etc, are women only for specific legitimate reasons.

Most of the equipment and excercize options there ARE geared towards women, and our own curves.

Why do you want to join? do you want better thighs, a better bottom, and better firmer looking breasts?

Our society says that there is something very unmanly about any male that wants to join any womens group/activity, or to do anything feminine. There are very strict limits and social mores on what males in our society are permitted to do, or join, or what clothes or colors(pink and purple) males can wear, etc.

Why do you think there is a such a big difference in how our society treats a female who is a tomboy, and male who is a sissy boy?

Affirmative action, equal rights laws, equal opportunity laws, anti-discrimination laws, etc. were not designed, nor intended by anyone, to allow white males do more.
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  #41  
Old 12-11-2002, 10:08 AM
Spiff Spiff is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by Susanann
No, you should not join.

And I question your motives for wanting to join a womens group.


OP here. (Sorry about my formatting limitations. The bolded words are Susanann's comments, the normal text is mine.)

After hearing what the set-up is like at Curves, I indeed do not want to join.

Pity though, because the Curves franchise was very convenient for me. And that convenience factor was my primary motive ... you are certainly free to question that, if you choose to do so.

A secondary motivation was to see what the staff reaction would be.

And finally, once I considered appoaching Curves, I thought about the issues it might raise regarding equal opportunity, affirmative action, fairness, the legal basis for disrimination, etc. ... and so I posted this question.

Womens only organizations, clubs, etc, are women only for specific legitimate reasons.

What are "Womens"?

Most of the equipment and excercize options there ARE geared towards women, and our own curves.

Why do you want to join? do you want better thighs, a better bottom, and better firmer looking breasts?


Yes. Yes. And yes, I do want to firm up my delts and pecs, too.

Why do you think there is a such a big difference in how our society treats a female who is a tomboy, and male who is a sissy boy?

Tomboy is a very outdated term, and offensive to many feminists. Perhaps we could use the term "athlete" instead.

And I want to increase my exercise regimen so people stop calling me a sissy boy!

Affirmative action, equal rights laws, equal opportunity laws, anti-discrimination laws, etc. were not designed, nor intended by anyone, to allow white males do more.
They were designed to bring about parity. Part of the formula to bring about parity was to give several historically oppressed groups temporary advantages to allow them to catch up. Once parity is achieved (or a reasonable approximation thereof), what should these laws then do? Maintain parity, I say.
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  #42  
Old 12-11-2002, 04:27 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by Susanann

And I question your motives for wanting to join a mens group.

Mens only organizations, clubs, etc, are men only for specific legitimate reasons.

Most of the equipment and excercize options there ARE geared towards men, and our own muscles.

Our society says that there is something very unladylike about any female that wants to join any mens group/activity, or to do anything masuline. There are very strict limits and social mores on what females in our society are permitted to do, or join, or what clothes or colors(pink and purple) females can wear, etc.

[/B]
I have taken the liberty of taking your quote, and substituting the opposite gender. Tell me it doesn't sound damn silly. Then ponder this for a minute. Get it?
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  #43  
Old 12-11-2002, 05:04 PM
Susanann Susanann is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrDeth
I have taken the liberty of taking your quote, and substituting the opposite gender. Tell me it doesn't sound damn silly. Then ponder this for a minute. Get it?
I get it, but do you?

Your quote is ancient history.

I am well aware of the history of the womens movement, and we broke thru nearly every barrier that we wanted to. Your changing of the gender was true at one time, but now we have surpassed the male in what we can do.

We can join the army(and worry about being drafted), be a cop, vote, hold office, get credit cards, mortgages, drive cars, trucks and busses , carry a gun, smoke, go into saloons, ride horses astride, work or stay at home, go to college(there are more women in college now than males) , get the house, alimony and custody of the children, we have the final say on having sex or not, children or not, we can wear pants or skirts, pretty dresses or hunting clothes, play with dolls or toy trucks, wear any color we want, have short hair or long, and any color, drive any color car or truck that we want, we can hunt, fish, play ice hockey, soccer, or sew, join almost any club or organization that we want, and no one questions our femininity.

Get it? It is not silly. Times have changed. Live with it.
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  #44  
Old 12-11-2002, 05:07 PM
Susanann Susanann is offline
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I cant edit this thing.

I meant : We can join the army(and yet NOT worry about being drafted),
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  #45  
Old 12-11-2002, 05:15 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is online now
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Quote:
Originally posted by Susanann
[B]I get it, but do you?

Your quote is ancient history.

]
It's your quote, actually. And I really don't think you do "get it".
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  #46  
Old 12-11-2002, 06:36 PM
Truth Seeker Truth Seeker is offline
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Quote:
originally posted by Susanann
but now we have surpassed the male in what we can do.
Assuming, arguendo, that this statement is correct, would you support affirmative action for American males?
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  #47  
Old 12-11-2002, 07:21 PM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is offline
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[b]suranyi[/], I have no doubt they exist. This simply means no one has yet done what the OP postulated.

However, in light of the decisions of the California Supreme Court interpreting the Unruh act, I have no doubt of the outcome of such litigation, should it ever occur.

I once thought of filing such a suit on my own behalf (there was a women's only gym club in Salinas when I was working there). But a healthy dose of common sense took over, as I realized that, just because a thing can be doesn't mean it should be.
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  #48  
Old 12-11-2002, 10:32 PM
Susanann Susanann is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Truth Seeker
Assuming, arguendo, that this statement is correct, would you support affirmative action for American males?
Why?

The american male gave women affirmative action status, even though women outnumber men.

Oh yeah, how did I forget this one, women can also laugh or cry.

Dont get me wrong, I would like men to be equal , but they dont want it, and they will never do anything that might be construed by others as being "feminine". We, on the other hand, have no problem doing everything and anything that is considered either masculine or feminine.

I would NEVER support affirmative action for males, unless they sincerely wanted to be equal, and believed that men and women are equal human beings.
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  #49  
Old 12-12-2002, 12:14 AM
Jonno Jonno is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Susanann

Oh yeah, how did I forget this one, women can also laugh or cry.
I laugh, and even cry now and then. And I'm a man. How....scandalous.

Quote:
Dont get me wrong, I would like men to be equal , but they dont want it, and they will never do anything that might be construed by others as being "feminine". We, on the other hand, have no problem doing everything and anything that is considered either masculine or feminine.
Bolding mine

Remind me to hire you next time I need my house painted. With that big brush you use it won't take any time at all.
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  #50  
Old 12-12-2002, 01:17 AM
Sam Stone Sam Stone is online now
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The way I see it, both sexes sometimes prefer to be with only members of the same sex. This is understandable, since the other sex can be such a bunch of dipshits. And sometimes you just don't want to have to put on your social face or whatever.

But I think what the OP is getting at is that there's a double standard here. A woman's need to exercise with only other women is legitimate, and a man's need to be able to golf with other men is not. He's choosing to approach the problem by forcing women to open their clubs. I'd rather just say why not let the sexes have some occasional privacy from each other?
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