A new twist on "Women only" health clubs

Great Debates
1

We’ve had a few discussions on SDMB about “women only” gyms and the legality thereof.

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A new twist, now; Mrs. RickJay works at a college here in Ontario. The college, like most, has a gym available to its employees. Now the college has set aside women-only hours for its gym. (Prime usage hours, no less.) So unlike a private club, based on membership, we have here a taxpayer-sponsored college restricting its male employees from using a service its female employees may use.

Is this ethical? Legal? How do women feel about this, in terms of having a comfortable place to work out? I know Mrs. RickJay thinks it’s terribly wrong, but I’m ambivalent about it.

2

Sorry, I blew the link to the earlier thread, and now I can’t seem to get the hamsters to find it.

3

Was it Should I, a male, try to join ‘Curves’ - a female-only exercise club?

4

Someone should ask the college if they plan to have any “men only” hours, and if not, why not. I’d love to hear the explanation, which I suspect would reveal some wildly muddled, sexist thinking.

5

I can’t speak to Canadian law but here in Chicago I remember when the club my dad belonged to went from men only to co-ed (Union League Club of Chicago). I asked him why they felt compelled to do that and he said that in order to be male only it had to be male ONLY…all the time. In fact spouses of members enjoyed a great deal of the club’s benefits although they couldn’t actually be a member not to mention women were allowed as guests at all sorts of club functions.

If the same thinking held true then I’d say the college is in the wrong (which doesn’t even get in to the point about it being a publically funded entity and not a private club to begin with).

6

RickJay, could you ask your wife whether the new rules have actually increased overall female participation. Otherwise, it looks like they may do more to punish men than to aid women.

7

“Men only” and “women only.” How archaic. If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the gym.

8

Yeah. I’m expecting something completely wild- like “theres no demand for it”.

Oh wait, you guys were looking to get yourselves all bent out of shape with rightous outrage, wern’t ya? Ah, well, don’t let logic get in your way…

9

The basic problem is this: when a bunch of women get together socially, NO man worries that he’s missing out on anything important. That’s why you don’t see men clamoring to get into all-female clubs.

But when men get together, there’s a segment of the female population that’s CONVINCED something important is happening that they’re being shut out of- and they’ll do their level best to force themselves into the mix.

See, guys, when you and your buddies get together to drink a few beers and talk sports, SOME women are convinced that you’re actually “networking,” bonding, forming invaluable “contacts,” and working your way up the ladder of the “Old Boy System.” They think if they force their way into your stag affairs, THEY can bond with you, and become part of the Old Boy Network themselves.

Think about it- do you really think ANY woman is interested in joining the Augusta National Country Club, per se? Of course not! There are a thousand places to play golf! No, the Martha Burks are fighting to get women into Augusta beause they’re convinced country clubs like Augusta are the headquarters of the Old Boy Network. They envision Augusta as a place where mega-rich Ivy Leaguers sit around making trillion dollar deals over martinis at the 19th hole. They’re convinced that, if women were allowed into Augusta, THEY’D be making such deals, too.

Now, if you’re an ordinary Joe who just wants to hang out with male friends, eat snacks, and tell a dirty joke or two, you probably have a hard time seeing yourself as part of the “power elite.” But rest assured, when feminists look at you and your social set, that’s EXACTLY what they see!

In reality, a women who forced her way into your presence wouldn’t accomplish anything, except perhaps to spoil your fun. But that’s now how she’d see it. She’d see herslf as a hero and a pioneer- not as the party pooper she really is.

10

Since it’s only “women only” during certain hours, they might be able to get away with it. But since it’s in Canada, I really have no idea.

11

astorian – Where did you get the idea that men-only clubs have no agenda other than drinking beer and hanging out with the guys? There was a problem in my office as recently as a few years ago when a business meeting scheduled to be held at an all-male golf club had to be moved at the last minute because the boss of the guy holding the meeting decided that she wanted to attend.

I know female attorneys who have been shut of discussions of firm business because they were held at all-male social clubs. These are the relatively rare current examples. But the reason that women get so incensed about the “oh, it’s just a bunch of guys trying to hang out – just like a women’s sewing circle” mentality is that for hundreds of years, business was conducted in male-only enclaves. Women are not arguing to be allowed into the beer-drinking, crotch-scratching fraternity. They are asking to be allowed the opportunity to be where power decisions have been made and are being made.

And do you really think that Augusta National is just like any of throusands of other places to play golf? That perhaps a woman wouldn’t enjoy being able to play the premier golf course in the country? Are you aware that the argument being made for admitting women to Augusta has nothing to do with the old boys’ network, and everything to do with the fact that women should have the same right to use a premier sports facility as men? I suppose black golfers should also be content to play at any of the thousands of other golf courses too.

12

Just as a small correction here…

Women are allowed to play the Augusta all they want. Heck, I remember an interview with Hooty whats-his-name that spoke very glowingly of women on the courses and games with his wife and daughters and so on. Women are excluded from joining the membership, but what does that really mean? They don’t sit around with the guys in the private clubhouse, and don’t manage the finances. That’s really about it.

-Psi Cop

13

Ahh, the old “women should have access to anything men do” argument- yet when guys mention they don’t like the idea of a gym that has a woman only time it turns around. Typical.

14

I don’t get you Epimethus. Women should have access to everything men do. A gym shouldn’t have a women-only time. Has anyone here espoused a contradictory view, or are you just constructing strawmen?

15

To put it briefly and cruelly, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I’ve seen and heard Martha Burk talk about this issue, and while she’s clearly an intelligent woman, it’s equally clear that she doesn’t know ANYTHING about golf! Her ignorance about golf is astonishing, and she’s VERY lucky the media are 100% in her corner. Because if they wanted to embarrass her with all the silly misstatements she’s made about golf, they could make her look like a female Dan Quayle.

So… since Ms. Burk knows NOTHING about golf, why is she fighting so hard to get women admitted at Augusta? It all goes back to my previous argument: it’s about getting women into elite clubs where they can rub elbows with the rich and powerful.

Of course, the flaw in that line of reasoning is, to become a member at Augusta, you’ve got to be rich and powerful and well-connected already! Talk about a Catch 22- in order to enjoy the benefits of belonging to Augusta, you’ve got to be so rich, successful and well-connected that you don’t NEED those benefits!

16

Actually, I would expect something more along the lines of, “Well, the women want to be able to work out without having all those men gawking at them in their Spandex. The men don’t feel the same way about working out when there are women present.” This kind of attitude, that women need to be protected from those nasty, nasty men, amounts to infantilizing them. It doesn’t help advance the very worthy goal of equality.

Personally, I want a time set aside at my gym when buff twenty-somethings aren’t allowed in, since they just make me feel bad about my lost youth. :frowning:

17

Well, I think it was an unintentional strawman. I read something into the post that apparently wasn’t there now that I try to defend my statement. Hmm. (looks around to see if somebody edited the post) :wink:

18

I have memberships at the YMCA and Bally’s. I can say from observation that I feel sorry for many of the women who work out there, more so for the attractive ones. They are constantly badgered men that for some reason think they have a chance. If the woman is simply polite, they think they are flirting with her and it just enourages the behavior. Usually, the gym staff are the worse offenders. I don’t blame women for wanting their own gyms and gyms that set aside women only hours.

19

How happy would you be if your gym suddenly started turned into a gay gym? Would you be just as comfortable as you were before? Or would you be a bit uncomforable with guys checking you out while you are trying to work out?

I bet the answer is that it would be pretty uncomfortable- even if you have no problems with gay people per say. The term “gay gym” has a lot of connotations of sexuality and showing-off that you probably don’t want to deal with.

A certain amount of women- especially young women in a diverse university environment that may include students from single-sex high schools and cultures where it’s not considered appropriate for young women to mix with men in such intimate quarters (not just Muslims- this includes plenty of Hindu women, Latin American women, sheltered WASPs etc)- may feel extremely uncomfortable in a co-ed gym and are frankly unprepared to deal with all the sexual tension that can develop. There are a lot of sheltered girls out there, who are pretty tightly bound to their society’s ideas of what “good girls” do and do not do, and who never developed the skills to deal with unwanted attention. I really don’t think reasonable women-only hours are too much to ask.

The local hot-tub day retreat has women-only hours, too. Is it discriminatory for women to have a few hours to get naked and hang out in hot tubs without men around?

20

even sven

You’ve stated your support for women’s only hours at the gym. Would you also support men’s only hours at the same gym?

Grim