Ask a Methodist!

Over on the Ask a Catholic thread, Sanders asked if I’d start an “Ask a Methodist” thread. Never wanting to deny the request of a new member, I’ve done so!

Any questions about the arcane and mysterious world of Methodism can be asked here.

What are my qualifications? Well, I’m a first year student at Wesley Theological Seminary in Washington, D.C., where I’m studying for a Master of Divinity degree, and I’m a candidate for ordination as an Elder in the Rocky Mountain Annual Conference of The United Methodist Church. I can’t speak for Methodists who aren’t United Methodists (I can ask some friends, though.) I can’t speak for The United Methodist Church either, except by quoting official statements, but I can tell you my own understanding of Methodist beliefs and practices.

So go ahead and ask: What is the secret of the covered dish supper? What’s the difference between a District Board of Ordained Ministry and a pit of vipers? How many Roliads should you take if your heart is strangely warmed?

Ha! Take the Methodist challenge. Prove that you are a true Methodist.

  1. Explain the difference between United Methodists and Free Methodists.

  2. Explain why membership in the Freemasons and other “secret societies” is forbidden in the Methodist church.

  3. Explain why some Methodist churches allow female pastors and others don’t.

  4. Which Methodist college lays claim to Jars of Clay? (Five bonus points if you know what Jars of Clay is. Without looking it up on Google.)

Thank you, Alan!

I’m looking at this page. On the Articles of Religion, it states: “No Methodist or group of Methodists, not even the General Conference of the Church, has a right to change any of the Articles even by a word.”

Is this true, and if so, how can it be? I don’t believe the Methodist Church makes any claim to infallibility. Is there no possibility of errors?

The only Jars of Clay I know about is a Christian musical group. I’ve heard of them but haven’t heard them sing.

Yes, I have a question. For give me for asking this (but how else am I to learn? Osmosis?), but what the hell is a Methodist*?
Specifically, as compared with other Protestant denominations. Say, what separates them from the Baptists.

Wow!

First of all, I’m honored to have you as my first challenger, DDG. I didn’t know this would be “stump the Methodist,” but this should be good practice for my next DCOM meeting!

Like I said, my experience is limited to United Methodism, so you’re throwing me some curve balls, but I’ll try my best.

1)The Free Methodist Church was formed in 1860 after its members were kicked out of the Methodist Episcopal Church (one of the predicessors to the UMC). I don’t know what the charges were, but they held to more conservative beliefs and what they saw as the historic doctrines of Methodism, including opposition to slavery and ministry to the poor. I also see from their website www.freemethodistchurch.org that they are a holiness church, which usually indicates a divergance from a Wesleyan understanding of Christian perfection in the opposite direction from United Methodists, (i.e., insisting upon it, where United Methodists don’t even think about it anymore–unfortunately). I got this information from their website and from the 10th edition of Frank S Mead’s Handbook of Denominations in the United States, published by Abingdon.

United Methodists are very diverse theologically, and fall pretty much in the Protestant mainstream, which means we’re not too far from Episcopalians, the Presbyterian Church (USA), the United Church of Christ, or the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

2)The Free Methodist Church forbids membership in “secret societies.” I don’t know why specifically, but Cecil addressed the Masons generally (including attitudes toward them and condemnation by churches) here. I can find nothing to indicate that the UMC currently has any position on Masons or secret societies.

3)There may be some Methodist Churches that don’t allow women to be ordained, but if so, I’m not aware of them. (The FM website was unclear on the issue–it appears to still be a controversy for them, though their founder allowed it.) Historically, Methodist Churches went through the same process that other “mainline” Protestant denominations have of re-evaluating longstanding assumptions about gender roles in the Church.

Wesley was torn about the issue of women preachers, but allowed them on the advice of his mother. He advised them to call themselves “exhorters” rather than “preachers” to avoid controversy. Methodist preachers at that time were unordained, though, so he never addressed that issue directly. Of the groups that eventually formed the UMC, the United Brethren (a German-speaking Wesleyn church) ordained women earliest (1889), but stopped when they merged with the Evangelical Association (another German-speaking Wesleyan body) in 1946. The rest of the future UMC did not ordain women until after WWII. The first female bishop was elected in 1980. I believe some of the African-American Methodist denominatiions had a much better early track record. Julia A.J. Foote was the first woman ordained deacon by the African Methodist Episcopal Church Zion in 1894, and their 2nd female elder shortly before her death in 1900.

  1. Like His4ever, I knew they were a Christian rock band, but since I don’t like “contemporary Christian” music, I’ve never heard them. I think I may have heard once what college they went to, but I don’t know now and don’t feel like looking it up (since you obviously know.)

Did I pass? :smiley:

Now that that’s dealt with, on to Sanders.

The page you’re looking at belongs to the Christian Methodist Episcopal Church, a predominantly African-American denomination that split from the Methodist Episcopal Church, South after the Civil War. The UMC had the same Articles of Religion, which Wesley edited from the Articles of Religion of the Church of England for use by Methodists in America. The Constitution of the UMC states (PP16, Article 1 of the Restrictive Rules) “The General Conference [the highest legislative body in the UMC and the only one that can speak for the whole church] shall not revoke, alter, or change our Articles of Religion or establish new standards or rules of doctrine contrary to our present existing standards of doctrine.” Theoretically, they could be changed, but first the Constitution would have to be amended to change the first restrictive rule, no easy task, believe me. That hasn’t stopped them from providing a long historical account of the Articles and the varying degree to which they’ve been used. Like Catholic doctrine, they are “reinterprited” rather than changed or abandoned, but not because they’re seen as infallable (far from it). They’re just too hard to change, beacuse some of us think there is value in having some standards that can’t be too easily changed, and because they’re part of our history.

Finally, Blackeyes, Methodism is a movement that began in the Church of England under the leadership of John Wesley and his brother Charles in the mid and late 1700s. John lead the movement, while Charles wrote hymns (a far greater contribution than it may sound). It was a revivial movement that emphasised evengelistic piety and sacramental worship. Wesley was a Church of England priest until his death, but the Methodists ultimately became a seperate denomintaion under complicated circumstances. The UMC is a mainstream Protestant denomination. We don’t have any unique doctrines (and don’t aim to), but we do have sertain emphases, like a traditional concern with social issues; belief in prevenient grace, “the divine love that surrounds all humanity and precedes any and all of our concious impulses” and which leads believers to Christ; and sanctification, the belief that salvation is not the goal but the start of Christian discipleship, which ultimately ends in “having the mind of Christ and walking as he walked” and being “habitually filled with the love of God and neighbor.”

Jars of Clay’s alma mater, Greenville College, Greenville, Illinois, a Free Methodist college.

Heh. According to the Free Methodists, they weren’t kicked out–they left. :smiley:

And, seriously, they left over the issue of pew rental. The mainstream denomination was for it, the soon-to-be “Free” Methodists were agin it.

Membership in the Freemasons is forbidden because of “the murder”. Now you can go look up “what murder”, because if you look it up yourself, you’ll remember it better next time… :smiley:

Actually, the part about getting kicked out was from the Free Methodist website (as well as my book). Pew rental was mentioned, but only as part of a laundry list of issues. I didn’t mention it because I didn’t want to have to explain what it was.

“College kid”!!! I’m in graduate school, thank you very much! I was a college kid two years ago. :stuck_out_tongue:

Maybe after my finals. I’m supposed to be studying Hebrew now! :o

Now that you mention it, though, I have heard of pew rentals being the cause celebre for the Free Methodist split. Can’t remember where, though. . . . Can’t remember a darn thing else about them, either, besides what I looked up.

I just looked up the hymns, quite a lot of them.

So, what’s a “herald angel”?

Since we are in the GD column, allow me to make it one…
How do methodists interpret 1 Tim 3:15 ( more specifically, what church ) ? and how do you interpret John 6:52-68
How do you know the methodist interpretation is correct?

Do Methodists believe in the virgin birth?

If you don’t look it up, you won’t have a clue next time!

:stuck_out_tongue: [sup]Who says there will be a next time? I looked it up, so I’m ready.[/sup]

I have a question - from your Protestant point of view, are Baptists considered “Protestant” or are they unique in that they arrose independently of Catholocism? Someone recently told me this, but I’ve been unable to verify it.

Methodists aren’t obligated to believe a set interpretation of the Bible. We base our beliefs on what’s known as the “Wesleyan Quadralateral”: Scripture, Tradition, Reason, and Experience. Scripture is primary, but we don’t pretend we’re the first people to ever have read Scripture, nor do we accept what’s handed down to us unquestioningly. We are supposed to think about our faith. Finally, we look at our experience and ask whether a given interpretation “bears fruit,” ie, whether it leads to a deeper appreciation of Christ and a greater likeness of him in our lives. At least how I see it.

As for me, I interpret the church in Timothy to be the catholic (universal) church, that is the fellowship of all Christians. I interpret Jesus, in John 6, to be teaching about the Eucharist. Those certainly aren’t the only intrerpretations possable, though.

As for the virgin birth, we affirm the traditional creeds of the Christian Church, including that Jesus “was born of the virgin Mary.” We allow considerable lattitude in how we interpet them, however. (See above.) A UMC bishop recently caused a bit of a stir by giving a speech stating that, in his opinion, the creedal claims about the virgin birth were literary-poetic language that was never meant to be taken literally. IOW, Jesus had two human parents. Most Methodists (including a number of other bishops) disagree, but he hasn’t been brought up on charges of heresy yet, and I doubt he will be. (I’m sure some United Methodists hope he will be, though.)

Some Baptists claim that Baptists have existed since the days of the Apostles as some sort of persecuted underground church, but historically speaking the Baptist churches began as an offshoot of the Congregationalists in England, who in turn were a branch of the Puritan movement, which originally arose as a movement to reform the Church of England, which in turn broke away from the Roman Catholic Church. As such, Baptists are definitely Protestants.

It’s still the official dogma of the United Methodist Church:

United Methodists, blah blah…

IANA Methodist, but I know a little about this. All seven major Protestant Christian sects, to the extent they’d been unified before, split during or just prior to the War Between the States. The Methodists supposedly reunited, becoming the United Methodists, but a few held out and are Free Methodists.

An educated guess from that leads me to suspect that the “Free” Methodist prohibition of membership in secret societies was directed at one secret society in particular, wink-wink nudge-nudge…

Its from Charlie Brown.
A play on words -Harold Angel.:wink:

Oh, they’ll come right out and tell you, “Membership in the Freemasons, as well as other ‘secret societies’, is forbidden if you want to become a member of our church. You can’t be a Mason and a Free Methodist, too.”

I rember hearing somewhere that John Wesley wrote a book of sermons that he wanted Methodist ministeers to base there sermons on. Is this true and if so do Methodists still use it?
Why do Methodist sing so loudly?

For DDG, an atrocious joke:

“I went to a Free Methodist Church once. But they ought to be arrested for false advertizing – they took up a collection like everybody else!!” :smiley:

Alan, would you address itinerancy? I have a personal story regarding that that colors my opinion of the UMC as an institution, but I’d like to see what you (or Jodi, an active Methodist of long standing) have to say about that strictly-Methodist institution.

It might also be interesting, if there are any people with roots in British Methodism, to compare and contrast the two churches – the American church is much “higher” and structured than is the British, AFAIK.