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Old 12-19-2002, 04:43 PM
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Ask the Militia Guy!


There seems to be an abundance of “Ask the XXX” threads lately, so I thought I’d throw my hat in the ring.

Yes, militia. You know, the plaid-shirted, gun-toting good ‘ol boys1 training for the day the balloon flies.

Go ahead, I’ll answer anything…

1Well not really, but that's a popular conception of us.
  #2  
Old 12-19-2002, 04:50 PM
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Why do you feel it's necessary for you to be in a militia?
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Old 12-19-2002, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal
Why do you feel it's necessary for you to be in a militia?
I live in Ohio, and by definition I’m already in it. But it really has to do with a sense of duty; if the preverbal SHTF, the citizens will need someone to defend the them at the local level. And if I’m going to defend anyone (including and most importantly, my family), then it’s incumbent on me to train.
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Old 12-19-2002, 05:09 PM
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What type of event do you believe is most likely to result in the proverbial 'SHTF'? Do you think it might be possible that you would be fighting against U.S. government forces??

Thanks.
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Old 12-19-2002, 05:26 PM
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Crafter_Man, as you might guess from my post in GQ, I am familiar with the negative stereotype of militias.
The Anti-Defamation league says this about The Militia Movement:
Quote:
The militia movement is a relatively new right-wing extremist movement consisting of armed paramilitary groups, both formal and informal, with an anti-government, conspiracy-oriented ideology.
Is this description of your militia accurate? Is the description accurate for any militia organization with which you are familiar? To which militia do you belong?
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Old 12-19-2002, 05:54 PM
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Just from your profile, you might be too. All males age 18 - 49??? are by federal code part of the unorganized militia. IIRC women are added to the ranks because of some of the equal opportunity laws.

I am proud to be a member of the US unorganized militia.
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Old 12-19-2002, 08:20 PM
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How many of the members of your militia hold 'unorthodox' views? What's your militia's name? How many members are in it?
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Old 12-19-2002, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Surreal
What type of event do you believe is most likely to result in the proverbial 'SHTF'?
It’s anybody’s guess. But in my opinion the most like contenders would be:

a) Foreign troops on our soil acting as a “police force”
b) U.N. troops on our soil acting as a “police force”
c) Firearms ban
d) Random checkpoints (“I vont to see your papers, please..”)

Quote:
Do you think it might be possible that you would be fighting against U.S. government forces??
Possible? Yes. But I pray it will never come to that.
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Old 12-19-2002, 08:27 PM
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How do you deal with people who buy into the stereotype that militia members are all a bunch of right-wing nutjobs waiting for the least little reason to gun down every politician in Washington?
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Old 12-19-2002, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried
The Anti-Defamation league says “The militia movement is a relatively new right-wing extremist movement consisting of armed paramilitary groups, both formal and informal, with an anti-government, conspiracy-oriented ideology.” Is this description of your militia accurate?
No.

Quote:
Is the description accurate for any militia organization with which you are familiar?
The description is accurate for many militias that existed in the mid-1990’s, but militias today rarely fit the description. I’m not aware of any militias defined as (stereotypically) “right wing/extreme,” but I have met individuals in the militia who are anti-government, conspiracy oriented, etc.

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To which militia do you belong?
I belong to a small, county-based unit.
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Old 12-19-2002, 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by Daoloth
How many of the members of your militia hold 'unorthodox' views?
Not sure what you mean by “unorthodox” views, but there are some who believe every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike. Is that what you mean?

Quote:
What's your militia's name?
Unorganized Militia of Champaign County.

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How many members are in it?
I'll just say "a handful." (I know I said I'd answer "anything," but I would rather not divulge the precise number of members.)
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Old 12-19-2002, 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by Crafter_Man
Not sure what you mean by “unorthodox” views, but there are some who believe every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike. Is that what you mean?
Bascially, yes.

About how much of your militia is constituted of ex-military? What do you guys do at meetings?
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Old 12-19-2002, 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Mr. Blue Sky
How do you deal with people who buy into the stereotype that militia members are all a bunch of right-wing nutjobs waiting for the least little reason to gun down every politician in Washington?
I can’t really blame people for stereotyping militia members. Their only source of information has been the media and leftists groups (e.g. the ADL), both of which want to portray us as gun-toting nut cases. So the only way to “deal” with these people is to simply demonstrate that we’re not a bunch of nut jobs. This is accomplished a variety of ways, e.g. performing community service and simply talking with people. We’re also conscious of our conduct in public, and emphasize courteousness and respect toward all people.
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Old 12-19-2002, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Daoloth
About how much of your militia is constituted of ex-military?
I would estimate over 20% are ex-military.

Quote:
What do you guys do at meetings?
We really don’t have “meetings” per say, wherein a bunch of guys sit around and “shoot-the-bull.” Our meetings are more accurately defined as training sessions. Training sessions normally consist of approximately 50% classroom training and 50% field training. The field training allows participants to demonstrate “in the field” what the learned during the classroom session.
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Old 12-19-2002, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crafter_Man
It’s anybody’s guess. But in my opinion the most like contenders would be:

a) Foreign troops on our soil acting as a “police force”
b) U.N. troops on our soil acting as a “police force”
c) Firearms ban
d) Random checkpoints (“I vont to see your papers, please..”)
Quote:
Originally posted by Crafter_Man
So the only way to “deal” with these people is to simply demonstrate that we’re not a bunch of nut jobs.
Community service is nice but do you think that arming and training to fight some nebulous "they" might be considered a little odd?


How will you decide when the time has come to actually start shooting at people?
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Old 12-19-2002, 11:58 PM
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5.56, 7.62x39, or .308?
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2002, 12:38 AM
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Why do you feel the UN is so powerful when it relies so much on the permission of other, many times squabling, nations?

Wouldnt it be smart to avoid diplomatic isolation and join the squable?
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Old 12-20-2002, 05:21 AM
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just how paranoid are you?
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Old 12-20-2002, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by msmith537
Community service is nice but do you think that arming and training to fight some nebulous "they" might be considered a little odd?
Not at all. Freedom is not free.

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How will you decide when the time has come to actually start shooting at people?
Simple – when “they” start shooting. The militia is strictly defensive, and thus we never initiate conflict. We respond to threats.
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Old 12-20-2002, 07:46 AM
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Originally posted by Kalashnikov
5.56, 7.62x39, or .308?
7.62 x 51 (.308) is what I train with.
  #21  
Old 12-20-2002, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pythagras
Why do you feel the UN is so powerful when it relies so much on the permission of other, many times squabling, nations?
In my opinion the U.N. threatens the sovereignty of all nations, regardless of internal politics. Squabbling certainly hasn’t stopped the numerous “peace keeping missions” over the years, and we’ve seen how those have turned out…

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Wouldnt it be smart to avoid diplomatic isolation and join the squable?
No. The militia believes the U.S. is a sovereign nation, existing under the grace of God. We view no other country or organization (i.e. UN) as being our “equal.”
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Old 12-20-2002, 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by TwistofFate
just how paranoid are you?
No more paranoid than the freedom fighters of 1776…
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Old 12-20-2002, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crafter_Man
if the preverbal SHTF, the citizens will need someone to defend the them at the local level
Do you feel this job is not being adequately performed by US military, National Guards, and Federal, State and Local law enforcement organizations who are actually trained in do this job?



Quote:
Originally posted by Crafter_Man
Simple – when “they” start shooting. The militia is strictly defensive, and thus we never initiate conflict. We respond
to threats. [/B]
But how will you know who "they" are?

If some armed US Marshals show up on your doorstep, do you plan to go quietly or baracade yourselves in and fight it out like Waco or Ruby Ridge?


Would your group defend the rights of say...Muslim immigrants being rounded up in internment camps or blacks being chased by lynch mobs or does freedom only extend to Americans of Anglo/Christian ancestry?


Are there any gays, minorities or women in your militia group?


What makes you feel that you have the right to represent all or most Americans in armed conflict? (Compared to the US Military and law enforcement which is a volunteer force under the command of duly elected officials)
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Old 12-20-2002, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
a) Foreign troops on our soil acting as a “police force”
b) U.N. troops on our soil acting as a “police force”
c) Firearms ban
d) Random checkpoints (“I vont to see your papers, please..”)
Out of curiosity, how do you feel when the US or UN act on foreign soil as a "police force"? Or do you prefer a more isolationist policy?
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Old 12-20-2002, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Crafter_Man
The militia believes the U.S. is a sovereign nation, existing under the grace of God. We view no other country or organization (i.e. UN) as being our “equal.”
I completely understand the concept of isolationism and, if I were a US citizen, it might be a policy I would espouse. What I don't understand is the concept of not regarding any other country as being "equal". I am Irish and proud of my country and heritage but I would never suggest that other countries are anything less than "equal". What is the basis for this inequality (by which I presume you mean American superiority)?
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Old 12-20-2002, 09:30 AM
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I am Irish and proud of my country and heritage but I would never suggest that other countries are anything less than "equal". What is the basis for this inequality (by which I presume you mean American superiority)?
I think he means that no other country is equal in its right to create law that governs the US. As in, the US should answer to the US and no one else.

At least, I hope that's what he meant, although it's not clearly worded.
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Old 12-20-2002, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by msmith537
Do you feel this job is not being adequately performed by US military, National Guards, and Federal, State and Local law enforcement organizations who are actually trained in do this job?
The U.S. military is primarily tasked to respond to international threats. The National Guard has evolved into a branch of the federal armed forces. Law enforcement agencies do not defend the inalienable rights of the people; instead, their job is to simply “maintain order” at any cost. This is where the militia comes in. Our primary role is to defend the inalienable rights of the people against all systematic threats, whether they be foreign or domestic. No other agency or group is tasked to perform this duty.

Quote:
But how will you know who "they" are?
“They” is anyone who systematically forbids the people from practicing their inalienable rights.

Quote:
If some armed US Marshals show up on your doorstep, do you plan to go quietly or baracade yourselves in and fight it out like Waco or Ruby Ridge?
I will hand over items listed on the warrant, if that’s what you mean.


Quote:
Would your group defend the rights of say...Muslim immigrants being rounded up in internment camps or blacks being chased by lynch mobs or does freedom only extend to Americans of Anglo/Christian ancestry?
Certainly.

Quote:
Are there any gays, minorities or women in your militia group?
No, but they’re certainly welcome to join.

Quote:
Originally posted by msmith537
What makes you feel that you have the right to represent all or most Americans in armed conflict? (Compared to the US Military and law enforcement which is a volunteer force under the command of duly elected officials)
I don’t know if “represent” is the applicable term here. If someone’s inalienable rights are threatened, and no one is defending them, then we will respond.
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Old 12-20-2002, 10:17 AM
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That would make a lot more sense, thanks. So, I'll amend my question. Is there no room whatsoever for internationally binding treaties or the rule of international law? Does this apply equally outside of the US?
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Old 12-20-2002, 10:21 AM
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And, in view of your last post, which I didn't see, how are the inalienable rights of the rest of the world's population to be defended in the absence of international law?
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Old 12-20-2002, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kyla
Out of curiosity, how do you feel when the US or UN act on foreign soil as a "police force"? Or do you prefer a more isolationist policy?
For the most part I am against using our military as an international police force. As mentioned above, I don’t want foreign military troops on our soil; I presume citizens of most other countries feel the same. But there are circumstances when I think it’s O.K. for our troops to fight overseas (WWII comes to mind). Every situation is different.
  #31  
Old 12-20-2002, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by manwithaplan
I completely understand the concept of isolationism and, if I were a US citizen, it might be a policy I would espouse. What I don't understand is the concept of not regarding any other country as being "equal". I am Irish and proud of my country and heritage but I would never suggest that other countries are anything less than "equal". What is the basis for this inequality (by which I presume you mean American superiority)?
My previous post was poorly worded. In one sense, every country is “equal” in “legal” terms, i.e. all countries have a right to exist, make their own laws, etc. etc. But many Americans (and probably most militia members) believe America is the greatest country on earth. (If I didn’t believe this, I would pack up my belongings and move.) We believe “God has shed His grace on thee.”
  #32  
Old 12-20-2002, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kyla
I think he means that no other country is equal in its right to create law that governs the US. As in, the US should answer to the US and no one else.
You are correct, Kyla. Here’s the way it (supposedly) works in the U.S.: The government is accountable to the people, and the people are accountable to God. With the exception of treaties, foreign entities do not enter into this equation…
  #33  
Old 12-20-2002, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by manwithaplan
Is there no room whatsoever for internationally binding treaties or the rule of international law? Does this apply equally outside of the US?
I don’t have a problem with treaties per say, but I do have a problem with them being on par with the Constitution. But that’s another topic…
  #34  
Old 12-20-2002, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by manwithaplan
How are the inalienable rights of the rest of the world's population to be defended in the absence of international law?
A good question with (obviously) no simple answer. As explained above, the militia defends U.S. Citizens on our soil from foreign or domestic threats…
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Old 12-20-2002, 11:44 AM
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How do you feel about drunk driver/ auto insurance registration stops where the local police systematically stop people and check their papers?

If our elected congress passes a treaty it becomes law. So if congress passes a treaty allowing say a police officer from another country (lets say a Canadian Mountie) look for a Canadian Criminal in your county what would you do?
  #36  
Old 12-20-2002, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zebra
How do you feel about drunk driver/ auto insurance registration stops where the local police systematically stop people and check their papers?
I’m against it, as most people are. But I don’t think it can be defined as tyranny, since driving is not an inalienable right. Asking pedestrians for their papers would be a different story…

Quote:
If our elected congress passes a treaty it becomes law. So if congress passes a treaty allowing say a police officer from another country (lets say a Canadian Mountie) look for a Canadian Criminal in your county what would you do?
Not for a Canadian citizen. When we say to “foreign troops on our soil,” we’re referring to a situation where foreign troops are “policing” U.S. citizens on U.S. soil.
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Old 12-20-2002, 12:37 PM
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Some of the right-Wing Extremist Militia members advocated overthrowing the government (federal, State, and County) branding ANY government employee as an enemy. Even Postal delivery and Department of transportation would be under siege.

If the government were to be replaced/restored by Militia appointees, how do they justify the preemption of the elections of the People? Whose to say someone else won't attack the Militia Provisional Government?
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Old 12-20-2002, 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by Crafter_Man
I don’t have a problem with treaties per say, but I do have a problem with them being on par with the Constitution. But that’s another topic…
Ok, I'll bite- what do you mean by this?
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Old 12-20-2002, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Enola Straight
If the government were to be replaced/restored by Militia appointees, how do they justify the preemption of the elections of the People? Whose to say someone else won't attack the Militia Provisional Government?
Who’s advocating a “Militia Provisional Government”? Government belongs to the people, not the militia. The last thing we need is a government replaced/restored by militia or military appointees…
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Old 12-20-2002, 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by blanx
Ok, I'll bite- what do you mean by this?
I don’t want to get too off topic here, but it is my understanding that treaties (as defined in the Constitution) have just as much "authority" as the Constitution itself. Some consider it a “loophole” for amending the Constitution. I’m not a Constitutional scholar by any means, so I could be off base here. Perhaps someone else can elaborate on this or (if necessary) correct me.
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Old 12-20-2002, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Enola Straight
Some of the right-Wing Extremist Militia members advocated overthrowing the government (federal, State, and County) branding ANY government employee as an enemy. Even Postal delivery and Department of transportation would be under siege.

If the government were to be replaced/restored by Militia appointees, how do they justify the preemption of the elections of the People? Whose to say someone else won't attack the Militia Provisional Government?
I think that he has already pointed out that he is not one of these extremists, so I don't think that anything he posted in answer would be more than conjecture.

What we need is a total conspiracy-nut job to answer questions. That would be interesting!
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Old 12-20-2002, 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by My Darn Snake Legs
What we need is a total conspiracy-nut job to answer questions. That would be interesting!
Yea, I have a feeling I may have disappointed some folks responding to this thread…
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Old 12-20-2002, 01:59 PM
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You said that if an officer of the law shows up at your door, "I will hand over items listed on the warrant, if that’s what you mean."

When would you disobey an officer of the law, assuming the officer is enforcing laws enacted by the state / federal legislature?
  #44  
Old 12-20-2002, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried
You said that if an officer of the law shows up at your door, "I will hand over items listed on the warrant, if that’s what you mean."

When would you disobey an officer of the law, assuming the officer is enforcing laws enacted by the state / federal legislature?
When I believe such laws are unconstitutional and violate my inalienable rights.

For the record, I am a law-abiding person and have a perfectly clean criminal record. But I must also admit that laws are written by mortals, and are therefore sometimes bad. I draw the line when I believe such laws are also unconstitutional; this explains why Rosa Parks is my hero.
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Old 12-20-2002, 05:33 PM
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You have mentioned God many times in this thread. What do you think about the separation of church and state?

(I don’t want to hijack this thread into a church/state argument, but was wondering about your views on this issue)
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Old 12-20-2002, 05:58 PM
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If a law officer was trying to enforce a law that you thought was unconstitutional (let's say arresting you for something illegal, that you think should be legal due to your interpretation of the constitution), would you feel justified in using weapons in self-defense?
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Old 12-20-2002, 06:35 PM
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What are "inalienable rights"? Do only American citizens have "inalienable rights"?

You believe that God has shed his grace, uniquely, upon America. What portion of the entity that is "America" do you mean? The land? The concept of democracy? What is it about America that is special or different, that makes you think that it is above other nations in the eyes of God?
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Old 12-20-2002, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blueapple
You have mentioned God many times in this thread. What do you think about the separation of church and state?
Church and state must be separated. We currently have a secular government, as it should be.
  #49  
Old 12-20-2002, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried
If a law officer was trying to enforce a law that you thought was unconstitutional (let's say arresting you for something illegal, that you think should be legal due to your interpretation of the constitution), would you feel justified in using weapons in self-defense?
I am under no moral duty to obey laws that I think are immoral and/or unconstitutional; neither are you. I am also a defender of liberty. Does this adequately answer your question?
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Old 12-20-2002, 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by shelbo
What are "inalienable rights"?
Many people believe you are born with certain rights. We call these rights inalienable. By definition, these rights are not given to you by the government, laws, or the people; you’re simply born with them.

Quote:
Do only American citizens have "inalienable rights"?
No. Every human born on this earth has inalienable rights. Unfortunately, these rights are usually confiscated upon birth.

Quote:
You believe that God has shed his grace, uniquely, upon America. What portion of the entity that is "America" do you mean? The land? The concept of democracy?
The people.

Quote:
What is it about America that is special or different, that makes you think that it is above other nations in the eyes of God?
For whatever reason it may be, we believe the citizens of the U.S. are uniquely blessed by God. I really don’t know why; I’m just thankful this is the case.
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