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#1
12-26-2002, 05:44 PM
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The Sound of Music
In the Sound of Music, the Austrian set musical, the family were called 'von Trapp', but the 'von' prefix is used for Junkers who were the Prussian nobility (my history teacher used to tell me that this was an excellent way of divining someones social background and the region they were from).
So how come an Austrian Baron has this prefix in his name? 
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#2
12-26-2002, 06:22 PM
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It is my understanding that the 'von' is a title presented to important, usually aristocratic families. But: 1) It doesn't belong to the Junkers, who were wealthy, powerful and influential but mostly "middle class" (you usually hear about the Junkers, not the von Junkers) 2) The title is germanic, not German. The Austrians are a germanic people.
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#3
12-26-2002, 06:33 PM
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The Junkers were upper class particularly in the 1930's when the movie was set (perhaps you are referring to a specific family with the surname 'Junker', in that case I should of been clearer, Junker is the general name for the Prussian artistocracy). Though I am less sure about the prefix 'von', though I do remember my history teacher (a few years ago mind) telling me that it signified a Junker.
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#4
12-26-2002, 10:07 PM
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Just a thought
He (vT) was being shipped off to be a navy commander which makes little sense for a native Austrian. For a Prussian, however it makes perfect sense.
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#5
12-26-2002, 10:10 PM
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#6
12-26-2002, 10:54 PM
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Right. My point was that Austria is not the first place one would look to recruit navy officers, it being landlocked and all. On the other hand, were he not a native Austrian he is more likely to have a "von" name and be more likely to have naval experience. Conversely he was fond of eidelweis (p?). So perhaps he was just a flower-sniffing peacenik?
Of course none of this answers your question but it does raise another one with regard to the Nazi's hiring practices.
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#7
12-26-2002, 11:29 PM
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The Junkers were the Prussian land-holding aristocracy, but they were not the Prussian nobility. von (with the lowercase v) is an indicator of a noble rank throughout the Germanic speaking countries.
In WWI, Austria still owned the Balkans and based their navy out of what would latter be Yugosavia. They were not landlocked. Earlier still, Austria had held Italy and maintained a navy from that peninsula's ports. von Trapp was not merely an Australian naval officer, he was an experienced submarine commander, making his recruitment a priority for the Nazis.
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#8
12-27-2002, 08:26 AM
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The movie aside, the von Trapp family singers were an historic bunch of actual people, so the "von" is authentic.
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#9
12-27-2002, 08:50 AM
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The "von" prefix is not exclusive to Prussia . It was also used in Austria.
Von Trapp was a naval officer in the Austrian navy in the First World War. He had important submarine experience, which was rare, and had acheived some renown. It was therefore seen as desirable to have him in the German navy following the Anschluss.
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#10
12-28-2002, 01:47 PM
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I believe Cecil has written a column re: the significance of "von."
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#11
12-28-2002, 02:09 PM
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(Gee, that sure would be a bitch of a commute, though!) 
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#12
12-29-2002, 10:35 PM
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Okay, so Austria had a navy back in 1918. But between that time and 1938 (or whenever TSOM was set) it didn't. I find it difficult to believe that the Nazis needed his expertise after being out of commission for 2 decades. I DO believe that his importance as a prominant Austrian national made him an asset for PR reasons.
BTW Erich von Daniken (the Swiss hotel manager and author of Chariots of the Gods) is proof that you needn't be noble, Prussian or particularly gifted to be a "von".
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#13
12-30-2002, 02:37 AM
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