Becoming an American Citizen

[nostromo]

hi everyone,

I'm seriously considering this and I have some rough ideas as to what I need to do, but if anyone can help me with links to specific web-pages that deal with entry requirements, greencard/visas, rules and regulations regarding admittance or permanent citizenship, I'd be most grateful.

Since this forum moves pretty quickly, I would ask that you send any links to my e-mail address...

xenomorf@chariot.net.au

Thanks in advance.

nostromo

[Zagadka]

Um...

http://www.ins.gov

http://www.ins.gov/graphics/services/index.htm

Amazing how useful the Federal goverment can be.

[friedo]

nostromo, the INS Website is definately the place to start. Be forewarned that the INS is notoriously inept, and the process for becoming a citizen can be long and tedious. You may also want to go the the closes US embassy in Australia and ask them.

[amarone]

I started the green card process 4.5 years ago. By the INS' own estimates, I have about one more year to go.

Don't hold your breath.

[Eva Luna]

Well, it's hard to know what to tell you without knowing what your current situation is, immigration-wise. Are you a permanent resident and you're thinking about applying for naturalization? DO you have any family ties to the U.S. at all? What's your professional background? I can probably give you some advice, but from what little you've posted, I don't know where to start.

Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal

[nostromo]

Hi Eva,

Are you a permanent resident and you're thinking about applying for naturalization? DO you have any family ties to the U.S. at all? What's your professional background? I can probably give you some advice, but from what little you've posted, I don't know where to start.

Permanent resident? No, not yet
Naturalisation? Not a problem. I'm originally from UK (Scotland) and became a naturalised Aussie in the late 70's so becoming a naturalised American is not an issue for me
Family ties to US? No - would be bringing youngest son to spend 6 months of the year with me (my ex and I have a shared custody arrangement)
Professional background? Firefighter 0f 22+ years

Thanks again for responding

nostromo

[DemonSpawn52]

From what I can recall, people who can attain permanent citizenship fall into three general categories:

People who have family in the United States.

People who have job skills valuable to the U.S.

People who are refugees.

I think you can, obviously, rule out the last one (unless New Zealand is planning on an invasion). It’s for people displaced by wars and brutal governments. There is a kid in my class who’s Albanian, and I think he came over because of the conflict in the Balkans. Also, my best friends dad was a Cambodian general in the Vietnam war. He came to the U.S. for special training. While he was here, the U.S. withdrew, the communists won, and he couldn’t go back.

Unless you want to marry an American, you’ll have to get a job that the U.S. appreciates. Once you are in the country, you have to wait so many years (I think 5) before you can be naturalized. The whole process is a pain, because, as already mentioned, the INS (immigration and naturalization services) is inept and overburdened. You can expect to spend whole days waiting in the court house where the office is. Then you have to take a 40 question test that ask some about the founding fathers, the flag, the presidents... It might have changed, because I took the test 4 years ago. I failed it (I was in 7th grade though).

My mom has lived in this country for 30 years or so, and she hasn’t bothered to change her British citizenship.

[Eva Luna]

What DemonSpawn said, in a nutshell. You have to be a permanent resident for 5 years before you can apply for citizenship (unless you're married to a U.S. citizen, in which case it's 3 years).

The extremely condensed verion (if you have more specific questions, I'll try to answer them):

Most green cards are based on close family relationships to U.S. citizens or permanent residents, and have annual quotas; most of those categories are seriously backlogged, by several years or more. There are a few green cards for refugeees/asylees, which from your description sounds like a category that won't apply to you.

Then there is the employment-based category. Most employment-based green cards are for people with university degrees or the equivalent, who are employed in what the U.S. considers to be shortage professions, i.e. there aren't enough U.S. workers for the job. This area of law (which is what I do) is extremely complex, and changes all the time. It used to be, for instance, that anyone working in the IT field could pretty much find an employer that would sponsor him for a green card, and if you could just wade through the bureaucratic hassles, you'd get it in the end. Over the past year or two, though, that's been getting more difficult, as there are more U.S. workers available due to the economic downturn. Consequently, employers are less willing to hire foreign workers and/or spend the cash for legal fees and required job advertising for a green card, and the government agencies involved (INS and various state labor departments) are less willing to believe that sponsoring companies are unable to find U.S. workers.

The categories for most non-professional workers (not to insult what you do, but if it doesn't require a university degree or the equivalent, INS doesn't usually consider it a professional position) are so backlogged that in practical terms, they've been unavailable for years. There are a few wacky categories where the usual proof of an available, otherwise unfillable job with a U.S. employer doesn't apply, but they are generally for people who do things like win Nobel prizes or are at the very tip-top of their fields (arts, sciences, business, etc.) and have all kinds of nontraditional credentials or awards to prove it.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but it sounds like your best prosepct is either to fall in love with a nice American woman, or you can always try the INS lottery (called the Diversity Lottery; it grants about 50,000 green cards a year, and almost anyone can apply). The odds are long, but I personally know 3 people who have gotten green cards this way (one of whom is now an attorney with my office), so it's not hopeless.

[amarone]

Originally posted by Eva Luna
Then there is the employment-based category. Most employment-based green cards are for people with university degrees or the equivalent, who are employed in what the U.S. considers to be shortage professions, i.e. there aren't enough U.S. workers for the job. This area of law (which is what I do) is extremely complex, and changes all the time. It used to be, for instance, that anyone working in the IT field could pretty much find an employer that would sponsor him for a green card, and if you could just wade through the bureaucratic hassles, you'd get it in the end. Over the past year or two, though, that's been getting more difficult, as there are more U.S. workers available due to the economic downturn. Consequently, employers are less willing to hire foreign workers and/or spend the cash for legal fees and required job advertising for a green card, and the government agencies involved (INS and various state labor departments) are less willing to believe that sponsoring companies are unable to find U.S. workers.

This is the route I'm taking. It took 3.5 years to get labor certification (IT field). I would also point out that when the employer advertises, they have to treat any applicants seriously. If an American with the same or better qualifications than you applies, your company is supposed to hire them. Of course, one of Eva's tasks, I suspect, is to craft a job description that fits you and only you.

Originally posted by Eva Luna
Sorry to rain on your parade, but it sounds like your best prosepct is either to fall in love with a nice American woman, or you can always try the INS lottery (called the Diversity Lottery; it grants about 50,000 green cards a year, and almost anyone can apply). The odds are long, but I personally know 3 people who have gotten green cards this way (one of whom is now an attorney with my office), so it's not hopeless.

The entry date for the 2004 lottery has passed. The 2005 lottery will take applications starting some time ion October 2003, probably. At least Aussies can apply - UK citizens cannot.

[Spectre of Pithecanthropus]

In spite of what Eva Luna said, would it really be that hard for the OP to find work here as a firefighter? Seems to me there must be some cities or regions here where there is a shortage of labor in that field.

Of course, the OP would have to be willing to live where the work is.

I haven't been to Australia yet, but it seems like such a cool place. Are you sure you want to leave?

[ruadh]

Originally posted by amarone
The entry date for the 2004 lottery has passed. The 2005 lottery will take applications starting some time ion October 2003, probably. At least Aussies can apply - UK citizens cannot.

Eligibility for the diversity visa is not based upon one's citizenship but upon the country in which one was born. Nostromo's naturalisation as an Aussie unfortunately would not qualify him for the visa - as far as the INS is concerned, he's a Brit.

[handy]

Best bet is an immigration lawyer. About $10,000 should cover this sort of thing. You'd have to check.

[American Woman]

Originally posted by Eva Luna
Well, it's hard to know what to tell you without knowing what your current situation is, immigration-wise. Are you a permanent resident and you're thinking about applying for naturalization? DO you have any family ties to the U.S. at all? What's your professional background? I can probably give you some advice, but from what little you've posted, I don't know where to start.

Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal

Hi Eva, I certainly hope you are still around. This board moves very fast. I took a look at this thread last night and it is already on page five. Wow.

I have a question on the subject of marriage. What if the Australian was wanting to marry the love of his life, an American Woman, but did not have citizenship? Would the marriage speed up the process of citizenship and if so, can you tell me how much? What if he did marry an American Woman; is the marriage going to be acknowledged? I suppose he would somehow have to prove his love for the American Woman but once the judge saw them looking into eachother's eyes...

oops, sorry.

Anyway, can we look at this from the perspective of the American Woman who wants to marry the Australian Firefighter? Do you have any specifics you can give me? I would appreciate it so much.

Thank-you,

aw

[nostromo]

and again for Eva,

just for the record, the Australian Firefighter would also appreciate it very much.

nostromo (looking into her eyes.....)

[Eva Luna]

Well, yeah, there are no annual quotas for green cards based on marriages to a U.S. citizen. In a nutshell, you have to pay some fees, file a whole bunch of paperwork, wait a few months, and cross your fingers in hopes that INS doesn't lose any of it. And that's just for the green card part of the process; as I mentioned before, there is a 3-year waiting period from the day the lucky foreigner gets his permanent residency before he's eligible to naturalize based on his marriage to a U.S. citizen. (Naturalization requires filing more paperwork, passing a civics test, an English test, and a criminal background check, and more waiting, among other things.)

The exact docs you need to file, and the processing times, depend on whether the lucky and loving couple is currently in the U.S., or whether they're overseas, as well as how long they've been married, among other things. Post your specific scenario, and I'd be happy to take a crack at it.

[American Woman]

Hiya, Eva, sorry for the wait in my reply but I am a very busy woman. I run a restaurant, take care of three kids and a dog and try to keep a twenty-room house. Whew.

I want to thank-you very kindly for helping to answer some questions on this subject. It is very frustrating being in love and not being able to touch each other, let alone not knowing when we can touch next.

The question that I personally want answered the most is this: If we were to get married, could he stay in the country or have to go back to Australia for an indefinite period of time? I would be able to function on a day-to-day basis so much easier if I only knew the answer to this question. I realize the news may not be good but the unknowing is even worse.

Scenario: We met and fell in love; he went home to Australia and I stayed in the US. We are not yet married and are living thousands of miles apart.

Could you please tell me how much longer I might expect to have to be away from him, even after we are married? Can he stay one I give him my hand?

Again, much appreciation,

aw

[nostromo]

Can he stay once I give him my hand?

Can I? Tell me that dreams can come true Eva....

nostromo

[AuntPam]

Eva's taking a break right now. American Woman, get yourself to a nice competent immigration lawyer. If you two are properly affianced, your sweetie can enter the US on a K (fiance) visa. You have to get married fairly soon thereafter--I think it's 30 or 60 days, but don't have my rulebook at home--and should also file for his green card PROMPTLY once you are married.

While he could enter the US on a tourist visa, marry you and apply for residency, it is unfortunately true that he could find himself in the limbo known as "out of status" (entered legally but visa has expired) since his tourist visa will VERY LIKELY expire before the INS gets back to you about his permanent residency....and woe betide you if he decides to go home to Australia during that time span. There was a rather notorious case a few years ago (made the front of the Wall Street Journal) about some poor Canadian dude who married his American sweetheart while here on a tourist visa. He and she regularly drove back and forth across the border in the Northwest, even after his visa expired, relying on having filed for his green card. But then, one fateful day, they decided to FLY home from Canada---encountered a real passport inspection---and he found himself "inspected," "detained," "repatriated," and barred from re-entry for ten years.

By the way, this will NOT cost you $10,000. More like a couple of grand, especially if you competently round up and carefully xerox multiple copies of the paperwork the lawyer tells you to supply. Of course, getting his documents translated from Australian may run up the expense. (Just kidding........)

[Eva Luna]

I'm back, had to take care of poor Gozu in the Pit, whose immigration issue is rather more time-sensitive than yours...sorry!

Anyway, basically, what AuntPam said, except that if he enters on a K visa, you have 90 days to get married and file for adjustment of status (aka green card) on his behalf. The catch(es): a) you have to have a K petition approved by INS first (I can look up the processing times, etc. when I'm back at work on Monday); b) he will have to jump through some bureaucratic hoops in Australia to get the K visa once the petition is approved, including, IIRC, a medical exam; and c) although he can file for an Employment Authorization Document once you are married and submit the green card application, it may take 3 months or so to be approved, so there will be a stretch where he won't be able to work legally. The green card application itself may take 2 years or even more to be approved, depending on your jurisdiction. Also, if one is filing for a green card based on a marriage to a U.S. citizen that is less than 2 years old at the time of filing - the marriage, not the U.S. citizen, obviously - the initial green card is only good for 2 years, and then you have to re-file amore paperwork when those 2 years are about to run out, to show that you're still married and that the marriage is legit and not for the purpose of evading the immigration laws.

The above assumes you intend to get married in the U.S.; if you want to get married in Australia, the process is somewhat different. Let me know if that's the case, and I'll post an alternate scenario.

I really don't recommend the tourist visa/marriage/green card route; if INS gets the idea in its head that you two had intended to get married all along, they may decide that you two committed fraud, deny the application, and in the worst case, kick him out and not let him back in for a long, long time, if ever.

Caveat: IANAL, I'm just a paralegal. Also, I do primarily employment-based immigration, not family-based, so your scenario is not my typical one.

Good luck! Ain't long-distance romance grand? (Been there, done that, so I know how much it can suck. Ya think Australia is fun? Try dating a Soviet living in a dorm with no telephone in 1990! I certainly hope yours turns out better than mine did.)

[nostromo]

Thank you Pam and Eva,

that's a little more optimistic than we had both originally thought, I think.

The above assumes you intend to get married in the U.S.; if you want to get married in Australia, the process is somewhat different. Let me know if that's the case, and I'll post an alternate scenario.

That would be great too Eva. I have much to look at from my end of the world too, so either I (or 'she who makes my days') will most likely be back with more questions as we go (if that's alright?)

nostromo

[Spiny Norman]

- FWIW, Eva Luna describes exactly the procedure that my sweet Shayna and I followed.

To while away the long, long months of separation, Shayna put this checklist together:

http://www.geocities.com/shayna61/fi...checklist.html

This is NOT a definite ressource, rules change with time and location, you are hereby urged to verify and re-verify it before using it for anything - but it was more or less what we did to get yours truly a K-1 visa, and if nothing else, it could give you an idea of the number and size of hoops to jump through to enter the US with marriage aforethought.

The process, including the post-wedding application for "Change of Status", "Advance Parole" and work permit, has cost us about $1500 up till now, wedding costs not included - we're up for the "change of status" interview in about two weeks, and hopefully that'll lead to me getting the 2-year green card as a "conditional permanent resident". (Very fast work, actually.)

The bad news: There's some serious paperwork ahead.
The good news: It's certainly doable. We started the application in January, handled everything ourselves and got married in May.

Good luck!

[Spiny Norman]

- that the January-May timeline was cutting it close. We didn't meet with any snags whatsoever, and that might just have been blind luck.

[nostromo]

Hi Eva and Spiny,

thanks to you both for the help to date. Will get back to this thread if anything else comes to mind. Had to put it in my 'Favourites' since it always so move so fast!

Thanks again,

nostromo

[American Woman]

Ain't long-distance romance grand?

Ummmm, NOOoooooooo!! :wally It is, however, wonderful to be sooooo totally in love. Yes, LOVE is grand.

I want to thank everyone who submitted their opinions and helps to this thread and to our lives. This is one of the single most heart-breaking experiences I have been through in my life: Having to look at my love through a video cam. ARGUH!!

If I have anymore questions I will certainly bring them here; everyone has been so pleasant, helpful and understanding. Thank-you so much.

Also, if anyone learns anything new in the near future could you also post it to this thread?

Thanks to all from the bottom of my heart,

-aw

[American Woman]

Eh hem...

nostromo??!!

heheheh

????

[Nuke]

Originally posted by Eva Luna
I really don't recommend the tourist visa/marriage/green card route; if INS gets the idea in its head that you two had intended to get married all along, they may decide that you two committed fraud, deny the application, and in the worst case, kick him out and not let him back in for a long, long time, if ever.

Here was the sequence of events for my marriage to my Peruvian wife of the last 6 years:
- Wife (fiance at the time) had tourist visa prior to our meeting
- Met my fiance and after 2 years got married in Peru
- We both travelled to the US and wife entered as tourist
- Submitted change in status paperwork (I-130)
- Received letter accepting change in status
- Submitted application for permanent residence and work authorization (I-485, I-765 and other crap)
- Wife received her work card and subsequently her green card

At no time was the fact mentioned by INS that my wife had entered the US on a tourist visa after marriage. I guess this method exists as a "loophole" in the system.

[nostromo]

Originally posted by American Woman
Eh hem...

nostromo??!!

heheheh

????

I'm coming to get you, baby.

PS. Thanks Nuke

nostromo

[ruadh]

Originally posted by Nuke
At no time was the fact mentioned by INS that my wife had entered the US on a tourist visa after marriage. I guess this method exists as a "loophole" in the system.

No, your wife was just one of the lucky ones who didn't get caught. Congratulations to you both, but it's not an advisable method.

[Nuke]

Originally posted by ruadh
No, your wife was just one of the lucky ones who didn't get caught. Congratulations to you both, but it's not an advisable method.

I'm not sure it's a matter of not getting caught (INS knew from the forms we mailed in that my wife had entered on a tourist visa after we were married), since I really don't see what law was broken. I know lots of people who did EXACTLY what me and my wife did. Recent cases, too - post 9/11.

Maybe INS is more strict now.... or maybe they just don't want to look like they're breaking up families. I've never heard of anyone being deported or prosecuted for doing what me and my wife did. I figure, as long as the marriage is legitimate (and INS will find out if it isn't!!!!), what's the big deal?

[ruadh]

The big deal is that when you enter the country on a nonimmigrant visa, you are telling the INS you do not intend to immigrate. If you then turn around and apply for an immigrant visa, you're admitting to the INS that you lied. This is visa fraud. No, they don't get everyone who does it, even when they know you did it. But as a former immigration paralegal I guarantee you it can get you into serious trouble. Please do not encourage others to break the law in this way.

[Nuke]

Originally posted by ruadh
The big deal is that when you enter the country on a nonimmigrant visa, you are telling the INS you do not intend to immigrate. If you then turn around and apply for an immigrant visa, you're admitting to the INS that you lied. This is visa fraud. No, they don't get everyone who does it, even when they know you did it. But as a former immigration paralegal I guarantee you it can get you into serious trouble. Please do not encourage others to break the law in this way.

Easy big fella. No encouragement here. I never said, "Do this, it's easier." Only sharing my experiences. You try anything mentioned on this BBS at your own risk.

I state again that I've NEVER heard of ANYONE being deported or denied a green card for doing what me and my wife did. It appears you have (though you haven't said so), but I'll bet there were other circumstances that caused INS to focus on those cases.

[ruadh]

Yes, I have. And in the cases I'm personally familiar with, I'm not aware of the existence of any other special circumstances - it wasn't that the INS was trying to get rid of the person anyway and found this one technicality with which to do so, IOW. There might have been "other circumstances" as in the agent handling the case was in a shitty mood at the time (which certainly wouldn't be an exceptional situation), but that's something that could happen to anyone.

And as for the "big fella" bit, wrong on both counts.

[Nuke]

Originally posted by ruadh
Yes, I have. And in the cases I'm personally familiar with, I'm not aware of the existence of any other special circumstances - it wasn't that the INS was trying to get rid of the person anyway and found this one technicality with which to do so, IOW. There might have been "other circumstances" as in the agent handling the case was in a shitty mood at the time (which certainly wouldn't be an exceptional situation), but that's something that could happen to anyone.

And as for the "big fella" bit, wrong on both counts.

Sorry about the :big fella", just an expression.

I submit to your greater knowledge. I should tell you though that I called INS prior to getting married and even checked at an INS Service Center and everyone I talked to said what I was planning was OK. I'm a criminal for life......

[nostromo]

well, I'm reasonably okay with the principles of coming to America on a tourist visa but there's a few questions I have regarding work visas...

1. do I need a work visa b/c I'm coming there to LOOK for work or would having pre-arranged employment prospects help?

2. I'm looking into whether or not the skills I currently possess are transferrable/recognisable in the USA. I have several certificates that are nationally recognised in Oz and wandering if there's any RPL (Recognition of Prior Learning) or RCC (Recognition of Current Competencies) schemes that I can look into over there? Apart from my firefighting, I also have supervisory/managerial and instructional/teaching skills.

3. How hard is it to open a bank account over there? (Over here, we have this scheme that requires a kazillion forms of ID so that one can accrue a certain number of points in order to satisfy the bank that you're who you say you are and you aren't trying to 'shift' inordinate sums of money.

4. Is my Oz driver's licence easy to transfer or would I need to sit local requirement testing? Would an international license be easier to transfer?

5.

[amarone]

Originally posted by nostromo
well, I'm reasonably okay with the principles of coming to America on a tourist visa but there's a few questions I have regarding work visas...

1. do I need a work visa b/c I'm coming there to LOOK for work or would having pre-arranged employment prospects help?

Unless you have a very special skill (e.g. world-recognized sportsman or artist), you need to have a job to come to. You can't just come in and start looking for work.

3. How hard is it to open a bank account over there?

I found it quite easy, but I did open an account at the branch that my company banks at.

4. Is my Oz driver's licence easy to transfer or would I need to sit local requirement testing? Would an international license be easier to transfer?

You will need to sit the test for the state you reside in. Don't worry - it is trivially easy. Actually, do worry, there are millions of people allowed to drive after the most casual of testing. But that's another thread.