In the circles where I grew up, it was not uncommon to hear that so-and-so got married to someone solely to bring them to this country. Sometimes there would be payment involved. Sometimes it would be friendly.
What I always wondered is, what happens next? I know it takes time (I don’t remember exactly how much time) to get your Green Card. Can these types of marriages be annulled? Don’t you have to give a reason for annulment? And then wouldn’t the judge just report it to INS? INS is a bug, and IME anyway, they are pretty good at what they do*.
And if someone does get divorced, say right before or right after they get their Green Card, what does that do to their immigration status? Has anyone ever heard of these things?
*There was a story like this. One person wanted to come to the States and another wanted them to come. So they got a fake engagement (in India) and brought the video to INS to prove it. INS said, no way, we know you Indians, you have about a thousand people at your average party and there are only like ten people in this video, so we know it’s fake. I was impressed.
I knew someone was going to bitch at me about that. I am not here to judge whether what they do is right or not…but like I said, IME, and I’ve encountered a lot of people trying to immigrate here legally, and all of the hoops they have to jump through and how much trouble INS gives, and the stories they tell certainly make it seem like INS is on the ball.
The “INS” doesn’t exist anymore - it’s been replaced by the U.S Citizenship and Immigration Services, under the Department of Homeland Security. Not that it really makes a difference to the discussion, just thought it may be helpful info.
They’re still a pain in the ass to deal with. Trust me. Hoops. Oh so many hoops. Some of them on fire, even.
Well they’re not entirely incompetent. I just wish they would enforce the rules more and imprison and/or deport those involved in marridges of criminal intent.
If you marry an immigrant and are helping him/her get a green card, you must:
a) Prove that you make a certain percentage over the poverty level (17% in my case).
b) Sign a form claiming that you will, under thread of imprisonment, support the immigrant spouse for 10 years after the marriage, regardless of your marital status.
That is, if you divorce, you could still be held accountable for financial support of the other party.
Additionally, you must:
c) Provide documentation indicating that you are NOT getting married for purposes of convenience. In my case, that meant photos, ticket stubs, etc. from your “dating days” and early marriage or whatever you have. Thank god I’m a sap and saved all kinds of crap from my goings-on with the love of my life.
d) Go through initial interviews as well as,
e) Interview with officials 2 years after the green card is issued to ensure that the marriage is STILL not a farce.
This process is very time consuming (from 6 months to 2 years depending on complications), involves piles of paperwork, and can be quite expensive.
Marrying a citizen is NOT the easiest way to get a green card…joining the armed forces is. Also, regardless of any children you’ve produced, how much in love you are, the immigrant can still be deported at virtually any time. Scary if you’re devoted to one another. Or even if you aren’t.
I believe you need to be married to somebody for at least two years for ICE to consider it valid for the purposes of green cards/citizenship, and I know they want evidence that it’s a real marriage. Friends (he’s American, she’s born in Canada) brought their wedding album and video as part of their application, plus she was about eight months pregnant with their first child at the time. There were hundreds of people at their wedding, but the immigration officer wasn’t impressed, saying that he was sure that American citizenship would be worth buying for $50,000 (or whatever the substantial cost of their wedding was.) She eventually got citizenship, but I thought that comment a bit much.
No, you can get a green card after being married and going through the process of filing forms, courts, etc. But they do check up on you exactly two years later to see if you’re still married. I’m not sure what happens if you’re NOT married or very obviously not in love at that point. I assume there’s a risk of deportation.
Yes, you have to provide whatever evidence you have that you’re “in love.” In the real world, photos of the two of you with your famlies wouldn’t really be proof of anything. But they must be the one of the only things they can come up with to make you nervous.
You don’t get citizenship via marriage…you have to do that later and pass the test and all. You do get protection and the ability to work legally, however. It IS expensive, but does not cost and is not worth anywhere near $50k.
I would like to see where the law says anything about love. I very much doubt it. I believe the law says something like it must be a real marriage and not entered solely for the purpose of immigration but nothing about “love”.
Very interesting, and thank you all for the information. The aforementioned family member I told you about did indeed eventually get married to get the person into this country, but it still took years and thousands of dollars - doing what, I’m not sure.
He got citizenship only last year, and I know they have been working on it since approximately 1999. I wonder why it is so difficult to emigrate legally to the US? I mean, what’s the big deal? It’s not like we here are overpopulated or anything. Do we just not like furriners?
I’ve known some people who are involved in deciding who gets a visa and who doesn’t (this is state department stuff). These people are very good at their job. They are picked from the cream of the crop and are trained extensively. The US has centuries of experience dealing with every manner of immigration fraud, and they know exactly what patterns to look for. Trust me, if you think you’ve come up with some brilliant way to scam a visa, the visa officer has seen that same thing about one billion times. Very little surprises them.
You have no idea how tricky they can be. For example, sometimes when a husband and wife are applying for a tourist visa to visit family, they will say one is approved and the other isn’t. If they accept this, they both get the visa. If they freak out and say they won’t go unless they are together, the visa officer assumes their intention was to stay in America. This is just one trick in hundreds. In many countries you can’t get a tourist visa without being married with children, having a well job, owning property, etc. In many countries tourist visas are never issued, even to the most prominent members of society. Anyway, if a tourist visa just to visit is that difficult, imagine how difficult it is to get a visa to stay.
I once got “felt out” on entering a sham marriage with a friend’s committed gay partner. I did look into it, and it was just too much work. I’d have to totally re-arrange my life. A sham marriage isn’t something you could just do over a long weekend to make some extra money. It’s years of work and pretty risky. Since then I’ve seen many friends enter real marriages with foreign nationals, and it is a lot of work. They deal with mounds of paperwork, periods of separation and all kinds of trouble. Only love would make it worth it.
I have been through this process recently (the process of applying for a green card so I could live with my wife in the US permanently, NOT the process of making up a marriage so I could get a green card), and am currently in the two year “probation” period.
The way it works is I did not get an unconditional green card once our case was approved. I got a conditional one that expires after two years. At that point we will file for the unconditional green card, and if all goes well I will get it. If a person failed in that filing, I would assume they would have no continuing legal status here, just like someone who’s visa status had expired (I am guessing there are all sorts of provisions for appealing, etc, that would allow you to remain a while, but I do not know the details).
My experience with the USCIS was fairly good. Lots of paperwork, and about $1500 in fees, but it went as smoothly as it could have. The entire process took about four months. The interview was short and easy. I have a feeling that depends largely on the couple, and that it would be quite difficult to fake it. If the interviewer has been doing it for a long time I imagine they know what the suspicious signs look like, and if you are suspicious you would have a long, tough interview. In our case, since everything was extremely legitimate, all the details probably fell into place from their point of view, and they didn’t feel they had anything to worry about. A correct assumption! To me the interviewer seemed pretty much on the ball.
I did too - it was a veritable stranger, though - a friend of a friend. And he offered me $1000. And I was seventeen. I didn’t even consider it. I can see how it would be different with someone you cared about, but for money? Not worth it. Especially not for $1000.
Thank you for your information. I’m not really sure why the Immigration Service gets such bad press. All the people who think they’re incompetent, if you’d been on the other side, you’d know how difficult it is. The only reason it was relatively easy for me is I was a child and being adopted at the same time.
Another factor is that the marriage has to last a certain minimum period of time (I believe it’s two years) in order to be considered valid for gaining citizenship. I can see the principle involved but it’s led to some unjust cases. There have been cases where the American spouse dies within two years and the survivor is deported even though their is no evidence their marriage was fraudulent. In one case there was an American serviceman who had met and married a woman while he was stationed overseas. A year later he was killed while serving in Iraq and the government planned to deport his widow. In that particular case, I believe there was a public outcry that led to a special bill being passed by Congress granting her citizenship.
Sailor, political opinions like this serve no purpose in GQ, where we are interested in factual information. This is particularly bad form as the first response to a question. Please refrain from such comments in the future.
Yup. Also known as “conditional permanent residence” status. File your petition to remove the conditional status within 90 days of its expiration, or you’ve abandoned the petition.
As for the USCIS (INS back then), the people I dealt with overseas (embassy/consulate personnel) were generally speaking friendly and effective, but useless if you had any questions. (Sent me the wrong forms etc.) The people I dealt with in the US were neither friendly nor effective, but they did remain as useless as their overseas colleagues. There may be some truly talented and gifted people in the organization, somewhere, but I’ve not had the privilege of dealing with them.
There has to be something more to those stories though. There is a specific provision in the law for death or divorce in those two years, where you can apply to have the conditionality of your green card removed.
I would have thought that would have been fairly straight forward in the case of a death with no obvious foul play, but perhaps I am mistaken. I would imagine a divorce case would be heavily scrutinized.
You won’t get your full taste of the USCIS until you file that I-751 to remove the conditions of your permanent residence. Check their website, the service centers are currently working on applications sent on January 27th 2008!! Yes, 2008!
They are 13 months behind. If you travel during this period, you will further see the full burden of the DHS because now you have to interact with CBP officers at both the entry and exit airports. Because CBP Officers are NOT trained USCIS agents, they are rather ignorant with respect to proper immigration procedures and filing processes. It’s insane.
I fell for the temptation to editorilaize in GQ - mea culpa.
The process is time-consuming and somewhat depends on whether you get married in the US or overseas. In both cases, the spouse will start out with a 2-year conditional green card and will have to file a petition to get the conditions removed before it expires. In order to have the conditions removed, there’s a 2nd interview (can be waived) to document that it’s not a sham marriage.
I have not ever had occasion to look into divorce law, but I am certainly under the impression that you no longer have to produce a convincing reason to get one. You’d of course be a dumbass to file for divorce on the grounds that “The marriage was a sham to get a Green Card”. The judge has no need to inform the INS - the matter will come up when filing for removal of conditional status. Incidentally, the rules do not state that you can’t get conditional status removed even if divorced - but you still have to make your case that it wasn’t a sham marriage, and I imagine the alarm bells will be going off.
If you divorce right before, you’ll face a very challenging interview. But after you get the permanent Green Card, you have no reason to talk to the INS except to report address changes, file for citizenship or file for Green Card renewal (10 years later).
The marriage in and of itself is not so important - it’s your ability to make the case that you intended for the marriage to last.
