|
|
|
|
#1
02-07-2003, 12:23 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
The Black and White Film Appreciation Thread: Part 1 Dr Strangelove
I'm sick of hearing younger folks give short shrift to films merely because they are black and white.
"I don't watch Black and white movies... they suck" Many brilliant films were filmed in this glorious method. And most of them hold up today. In order to bust ignorance and prejudices against films which are not watched for merely being black and white I invite those Dopers who have this prejudice to watch and discuss the film of the week. Of course fans are more than welcome to gush on these great features. I wish to start with the Comedy Classic Dr. Strangelove, Or: How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Bomb (1964) This is a film in which colour would ruin the mood and feel of many of its scenes more specifically in the famous fictional War Room (rumoured to be the first place Regan wanted to see upon becoming President). The pace of the comedy is not frantic but the lunacy of the characters and situation guarantee a few strong laughs especially in Peter Sellers three characters. The politics and technology may be out of date but the themes hold up well. No one can deny that the final scene Slim Pickens is in is one of the most memorable in film history. This is not meant to be a slag but for years that image seemed to me to sum up what an American is. Not the destroyer but the cowboy who will do his damndest to see something through no matter what the odds against him and will let you know he has succeeded and enjoys it. There are so many funny lines that are thrown out that it takes more than one viewing to catch them and of course George C Sott's performance is down right hilarious, especially when he gives his answer on the crews chances of getting through despite the entire soviet Defence. I ask for people to view this masterpiece of black comedy and respond. 
|
| Advertisements | |
|
|
|
|
#4
02-07-2003, 12:46 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Nope entirely Black and white.
|
|
#5
02-07-2003, 12:52 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
the movie is a small slice of genius... the scene where peter sellers as the president is on the phone with the russian president is one of the funniest in cinematic history... and you're right, kubrick had such an eye for playing with shadows and light that the film would've been ruined in color...
another film by a filmmaker who used both black and white as well as color successfully was akira kurosawa... now let's be honest, rashomon (and most of his early films), would suck in color...
|
|
#6
02-07-2003, 12:53 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Some drunk guy in a bar once told me that this wasn't a "black and white movie", but instead was a "movie filmed in black and white". His argument was that "black and white" movies are movies filmed before color filming was available, whereas "movies filmed in black and white" are movies filmed in black and white despite the availability of color filming. I wasn't sure if this was some drunken logic or something he heard in a Film and Theate 101 class, as his explanation for why he distinguished the two didn't make any sense
 That being said, I love this film  My favorite part was the President's telephone conversation with the Soviet Premier. Sellers makes it sound nothing like a conversation between the two most powerful men on the planet  (lifted off of imdb and odds are it's not verbatim): Quote:
|
|
#7
02-07-2003, 01:08 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Sadly, I think we've crossed a new generational watershed. I taught this film in my freshman comp classes last year. To my great surprise, all but one of the students hated it. This particular student happened to be a fifth-year senior who was only just now getting around to taking freshman comp, hence old enough to remember the Cold War. The others simply didn't get it -- they had no idea what was being satirized, or even that it was satire at all. There were a few laughs when Mandrake shot the Coke machine, but everything else was lost on them.
At that moment, a month before my twenty-sixth birthday, I realized I was officially an Old Fogey. 
|
|
#8
02-07-2003, 01:14 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
That one kills me too, it typified the one upmanship those two countries had at that time. "Don't say you're more sorry than I am"
My favorite Dr. Strangeloves Discussion of the possibility of a doomsday device. Noting that for it to work the enemy must know about it. His final shout of "Why did you keep it a seceret" Just floors me with his delivery
|
|
#9
02-07-2003, 01:20 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
What the heck are they teaching in school? I mean the students must know that the Cold war is what made the United States a Superpower and ensured their continued active roll in international politics right?? How old were these students? I mean the humour can't all be just an age issue, in an time where lunatic conspiracy theories are abound would General Ripper's Ravings not make for a few laughs?
|
|
#10
02-07-2003, 01:27 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Precious bodily fluids
General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.
Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Lord, Jack. General Jack D. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began? Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: I-- no, no. I don't, Jack. General Jack D. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. Nineteen forty-six, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works. Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Uh, Jack, Jack, listen, tell me, tell me, Jack. When did you first... become... well, develop this theory? General Jack D. Ripper: Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love. Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm. General Jack D. Ripper: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm. General Jack D. Ripper: I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women uh... women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid women, Mandrake. Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No. General Jack D. Ripper: But I... I do deny them my essence. Great movie. The best black comedy ever.
|
|
#11
02-07-2003, 01:28 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
You people are all a bunch of preverts.
Seriously, though, I think this film proves that Peter Sellers is one of the most underrated actors of the 20th century. What'd he do, 3 different roles in this film? By the way: why was the plot of this film almost identical to that of Failsafe? Sure, one's a comedy and one's serious, but the general themes of the story are identical. Was this intentional?
|
|
#13
02-07-2003, 01:44 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
#14
02-07-2003, 01:51 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#15
02-07-2003, 01:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#17
02-07-2003, 01:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
One of my favorite movies.
__________________
An American flodnak in Oslo. Do not open cover; no user serviceable parts inside.
|
|
#18
02-07-2003, 02:01 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
You're going to have to answer to the Coca Cola company.
I guess it has to be a gnerational thing. The movie was on the other night. I watched it. My duaghter (college sophomore and English major) was mildly interested in it only for the cultural references that she's seen on the Simpsons or other places. Son #1 only wanted to see Major Kong ride the bomb down. Son #2 watched about 3 minutes and gave up. Fretful Porpentine is right. Unless you actually lived through the Cold War, specifically flashpoints like the Cuban Missile Crisis and ideas like flouridation is a Communist plot, I don't think you can possibly understand that the movie, while taken to absurdity, is entirely logical.
|
|
#19
02-07-2003, 02:15 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Awsome movie. One of my favorites.
For next weeks film, I would like to nominate "Night of the Living Dead". _______________ Fagjunk Theology: Not just for sodomite propagandists anymore.
|
|
#20
02-07-2003, 02:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
i actually took a class on kubrick when i was in college when i was 20(and for the record, i was born in 1980, so i don't remember much of the cold war except the end of it, and i still think the movie was genius) and i'd like to clarify a couple things that other people have already pointed out...
one, a little known fact is that peter sellers didn't want to do the role that slim pickens took over, so lied about the leg to get kubrick to let him out of it... two, kubrick had seen failsafe and much of the movie is an intentional parody of it three, the simpsons have parodied almost all of the films kubrick has made, predominatly parodying dr. strangelove(the opening where they ride the bomb down), a clockwork orange(where bart is dressed at a halloween party as alex) and 2001: a space odyssey(where pierce brosnan supplies the voice of a homicidal house unit that lusts after marge) and the shining("don't you mean 'the shining'?" "hush boy, do you want to get sued?") still waiting for lolita, barry lyndon, full metal jacket and eyes wide shut :-)
|
|
#21
02-07-2003, 03:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff.
Re: the OP, the use of B&W in the movie is essential for a couple of reasons. Not only is it easy to match up the stock footage of nuclear explosions, but it gives the invasion of Ripper's base a true newsreel verite feel. Also, the B&W accentuates the sinister spaciousness of Ken Adams' brilliant set designs. The Director of Photography for Strangelove was Gilbert Taylor, who directed other B&W classics like Repulsion and A Hard Day's Night, not to mention a small little film you may have heard of called Star Wars. Never received an Oscar nomination though.
|
|
#22
02-07-2003, 03:22 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I'm pretty sure age doesn't have anything to do with it, it's more taste.
I'm 21, and I was about 19 or 20 when I first saw Dr. Strangelove, and I loved it. It's a hilarious movie. Even though I don't personally remember anything about the Cold War, I *know* about it, and c'mon, how can someone not get a cultural reference like thinking everything is a commie plot?  But, I do like dark humor, so maybe that's why I enjoyed it so much.
|
|
#24
02-07-2003, 03:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Here's some trivia for you film buffs.
1. The scene where the President of the United States (Sellers) calls the Russian head of state (Dmitri) and informs Dmitri of the upcoming attack was improvised by Sellers. 2. When Slim Pickens is going through his "bag of goodies" the original script called for him to say Shoot, a fella' could have a pretty good weekend in Dallas with all that stuff. However due to the JFK getting killed there right around the time of the film's release, Kubrick went back and had the word "Vegas" inserted there. Watch Slim's lips and you'll see him say "Dallas". 3. This was James Earl Jone's film debut. Anyway...it's one of the best films ever made!
|
|
#25
02-07-2003, 03:49 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
People don't appreciate Dr. Strangelove?! Infidels!
I guess in a way I can see it. It's one thing to know about something intellectually; it's another thing to have experienced it. Dr. Strangelove's humor was the humor of nervous laughter, and if you were never nervous in that particular way, I could see not finding hte laughter so funny. Still, though. It's a fantastic movie. I grew up susicious of old movies, too: we just didn't watch them in my house, and the ones that came on TV seemed to be wholesome fiber-filled educational Leave it to Beaver movies. It wasn't until I went to college that I discovered the magical world of Humphrey Bogart and Alfred Hitchcock, and realized that there have always been twisted senses of humor in Hollywood. Some nominations for future parts: The Maltese Falcon, containing my favorite snappy dialogue; Casablanca, with great humor and pathos; Dial M for Murder, the most plot-filled movie I've ever seen; and Dead Man, an example of what a modern director can do with black and white. Daniel
|
|
#26
02-07-2003, 04:09 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#27
02-07-2003, 04:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quoth Banger:
Quote:
For what it's worth, I think that in order to appreciate this film, you need to have spent at least one sleepless night as a child scared to death of nuclear annihilation because of something you (or your parents) saw on the 6:00 news. I rather clearly remember one night (though I can't reconstruct, in retrospect, what the specific crisis was) that Mom said in no uncertain terms that the world as we knew it might not exist the next morning.
|
|
#28
02-07-2003, 04:44 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
i mistyped... kubrick had read the book that failsafe was based on and the film was not a parody of failsafe, but in fact a parody of the failsafe-esque type of film... interestingly, according to imdb: "Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) has a remarkably similar premise, and was being made by Stanley Kubrick at the same time. Kubrick threatened legal action, claiming plagiarism. The issue was settled when Columbia Pictures agreed to push Kubrick's film at the expense of Fail-Safe (1964), which subsequently bombed at the box office." i learn something new everyday
|
|
#29
02-07-2003, 05:21 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
KUBRICK: But have you seen the other actors? It's Slim Pickens!
|
|
#30
02-07-2003, 05:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
My favorite line is still this one:
"Stay on the bomb run, boys! I'm gonna get them doors open if it harelips everybody on Bear Creek." I'm sorry, but I don't believe anyone--not even Peter Sellers--could have delivered that line better than Slim Pickens.
|
|
#31
02-07-2003, 09:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I'm 23 and I just recently saw Dr. Strangelove. I have to say that normally I'm not as interested in black and white movies. Not to say they are bad, but it takes a bit more motivation to go see them.
While I don't think I experienced the same things that some of the older Dopers did during the cold war, I think I have enough of an understanding of the situation to appreciate the movie. It was actually quite a bit better than I expected initially.
|
|
#32
02-07-2003, 11:01 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Great idea Consider it done! I'll accept any nominations for the next few weeks but that one is too good to pass up.
|
|
#33
02-07-2003, 11:13 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Remember Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind (1930s) both had colour. Technicolour was around at an earlier stage than most people were aware of. True it was more expensive and took a while to become the norm but colour films exist in almost every decade of films history (The earliest being hand tinted) By the time of Strangelove Kubrick could have easily chosen colour (the Best Picture of that year was My Fair Lady in glorious technocolour) however it was an artistic choice that has been explained in another post. There are many films where colour simply would have been a deterence. Many of the 1940s Film noir would have failed to evoke the mood and style had they been done in colour. True China Town came cloes to evoking that same mood but lacked the true atmosphere of the shadows and lightplay that b/w cinematographers excelled at.
|
|
#34
02-07-2003, 11:20 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Many do “know” that Dr Strangelove appears only in the last half of the film, that is not so: while the general (George C Scott) is talking to the president early in the war room scene one thinks he is talking in real time to the president (Sellers); watching the movie recently, on a large TV, I noticed that a few seats to the right of the general there was Strangelove (Sellers again)!
So, a take that would have been easier to do by Kubrik (by not showing Strangelove) is in reality a great piece of editing and acting only noticed after one sees the movie again. IMO the capacity for a movie to surprise, even on a second viewing, is one of the attributes of a true classic. If you still think it was not serious that Sellers was going to play Maj.T.J Kong check this test shot of Sellers as Kong: Geocities does not allow direct linking so click on "test shot of Sellers as Maj. Kong" : http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shir...angeimage.html After looking that, I agree that it was good Pickens got the part.
|
|
#35
02-07-2003, 11:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#36
02-08-2003, 12:29 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Dr. Strangelove is the midnight movie at the Inwood Theatre here in Dallas three weekends from now. I am so totally stoked.
(2001 was the midnight movie a few months ago. That was the most glorious night of cinema of my life. The Shining is on tomorrow night. Obviously, the folks who run the Inwood have a major love of Kubrick, which is just fine with me.)
|
|
#37
02-08-2003, 03:20 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
The first year in which color feature production in the U.S. outnumbered black and white feature production: 1954.
|
|
#38
02-08-2003, 11:42 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Cheney, by the way, bears an uncanny resemblance to Strangelove, with the same bizarre physical tics and pathological love of high-tech weaponry. Cheney, recall, advised Bush I to use low-grade nuclear weapons during the Gulf War. Both Bush and Powell were reportedly shocked at the idea... "Mein fuehrer!-- I mean Mr. President!"
|
|
#39
02-08-2003, 11:50 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
since "night of the living dead" has been nominated next week, i'd like to nominate for the week after that:
Akira Kurosawa's "Rashomon" amazing film. if you've ever seen a movie where the camera is pointed at the sun(perhaps Mike Nichols' "The Graduate" or David Lean's "Lawrence of Arabia") this is because of Rashomon, which was the first movie ever to do that. also, if you're ever interested in more about the revolutionary camerawork from this film(in *gasp* black and white), check out the criterion collection dvd of it... but anyway, thus i have made my nomination :-)
|
|
#40
02-08-2003, 11:54 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Major Kong:
"Well boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us than a horse trader's mule, the radio's gone and we're leaking fuel -- and if we was flying any lower why we'd need sleigh bells on this thing. But we got one little fudge on them Ruskies, at this height why they might harpoon us but they dang sure ain't gonna spot us on no radar."
|
|
#41
02-08-2003, 01:04 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
"In Strangelove, the humor is in the writing. Everything is played straight. The jokes are subtle and woven into the plot, like a tapestry. In Austin Powers, there isn't a subtle thing to be found. The joke writing is uninspired, and it all comes from the acting. Nothing is played straight--except when played sarcastically straight. So I guess I might suggest that the generational gap has less to do with memories of the Cold War, and more to do with the humor Zeitgeist.
|
|
#42
02-08-2003, 02:50 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#43
02-08-2003, 04:42 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
God, what a brilliant movie! Some thoughts:
Kubrick once said, confront as man with a nuclear alarm in his office and you have a documentary. If the news reaches him in his living room, you have a drama. And if it catches him in the bathroom, you have a comedy. Gen. Tugidson (George C. Scott) is in the bathroom when the news reaches him. The battle scenes at Burpleson Air Force Base are particularly chilling. They were filmed with a hand held camera (in 16mm, I think), to duplicate newsreel footage. I don't think those scenes would have been nearly as effective in color. Also, given the enormity of the events being played out (the end of the world), consider how absurdly small the locales are. "I'm not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed. I am saying only ten to twenty million people killed, tops. Depending on the breaks."
|
|
#44
02-08-2003, 08:41 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
kunilou that's another of my favorite lines from the film.
Quote:
How could I have missed it?  Actually, I think Strangelove resembles Michael Jackson even more. The borderline insanity, and, of course, the glove.
|
|
#45
02-08-2003, 08:59 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I have read the original book fail-safe, which I picked up at a used bookstore, and I can't image that Strangelove is not a deliberate parody.
Chapter two starts off in the “War Room” which is described as being completely dark except for a table in the middle and the big map on the wall (I think the book may even have called it the "big board"). Sound familiar? Failsafe (the novel) even has a character, a general, who has a revelation about women that General Ripper’s character seems to be a parody of. After reading Failsafe, I was taken aback to read that Strangelove was supposedly based on another book. I absolutely love Strangelove, and tonight I checked Fail-Safe out of the library so latter I might post back on how the two movies compare.
|
|
#46
02-08-2003, 09:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
When they needed another actor to play maj. Kong, Kubrick complained that “You can’t replace Peter Sellers with another actor! You can only replace him with the real thing!” -- so they hired Slim Pickens. When Slim shows up on set, dressed in cowboy hat and boots and talking with an accent, the actors remember thinking “Oh, that great; he arrived already in character” -- nope, it was just Slim Pickens being himself.
|
|
#47
02-08-2003, 09:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
"You can't let them in here! They might see the Big Board!"
The first time I saw Strangelove, I'll come clean and say I didn't get it. But how old was I? Ten, prolly. Seen it a few times since, and I get it now. 'Tis pretty damn funny. And for the record, I'm not old enough to really remember Ronald Reagan.
|
|
#48
02-08-2003, 09:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
My dad's in it.
Yep, my dad. Every hawkish, military stereotype in the movie made me think of dear old dad, and laugh. My father is really a great fellow, but the associations I could make with the way he talked all while I was growing up make the movie all the more funny for me. I laughed out loud in the theater when Maj. Kong blurted out, "We didn't come this far to dump this thing in the drink." Sounded just like dad.
|
|
#49
02-09-2003, 12:13 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I really only signed up to the board to show my displeasure at the attitude of some of the posters here!
First of all, I'm 18 years old. I know a little about the Cold War. Granted, I'm sure it's not all that we deserve to be educated on, but maybe the school systems are thinking it's enough(not like history hasn't been botched in text books before). But I did appreciate Dr. Strangelove. It's become one of my favourite movies, I thought it was excellent and hilarious. I don't think people my age are too young to appreciate the film, nor are they too ignorant. I think it's just a matter of taste... "Mein fuhrer! I CAN WALK AGAIN!"
|
 |
| Bookmarks |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Linear Mode
