Seems on time/early people are rude even when people *aren't* late (LONG)

The BBQ Pit
1

Sorry, I couldn’t ungeneralize the subject enough. It would be too long of a title then.

Relevent link #1
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=161350

Older, also appropriate link
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83257

Both times I tried to take it in stride, I made jokes, I smiled, I tried to offer a different perspective… but I end up here because the more I thought about it, the more it pissed me off.

Subject at hand in those: why people who are habitaully late are rude, arrogant, self-absorbed fuck sticks. And though it is true that you can get pleasure out of fuck sticks, apparently late fuck sticks do no such thing. In fact, in both of those threads you can read testimony—sworn testimony on genuine swiss timepieces! (now where is that swiss smilie when we really need it Arnold?)—that certain Grand Polite People of Master Timekeeping felt that habitual lateness is such a crime against god, humanity, and all that is holy that they would stop communicating with these people.

You can’t make this shit up, folks. You just can’t. That’s how we know it is true.

You’d think, given the frequency of people who complain about this, that our esteemed dopers might realize that they are hurling these insults at other dopers. You might think that, gentle reader, but you’d be wrong. You might think that after several posters indicated that they were indirectly the subject of the thread, people might try and back off the vitrol. You might think that, gentle reader, but you’d be wrong.

Let’s witness some tragedy.

From recent thread [my comments are italicized]
[ul][li]“In their case I think its a problem with upbringing - as children they were simply not taught that being on time was important.”[/li]
That must be it. It couldn’t possibly be that your life isn’t as grand as you think and being on time really isn’t the beginning of the world, and being late isn’t the end of it.
[li]“I think most chronically late people are also chronically thoughtless of other people, and how their actions affect them. In other words, people are on time for the things that matter to them.”[/li]
Well, on one hand, it was IMHO so what you think is worth posting. On the other, you might consider for just a little itty-bitty moment that people are on time when time matters. At least think about it, m’kay?
[li]“He’s no longer in our circle of friends - we got tired of always waiting.”[/li]
Ah, there it is! The REAL truth comes out! There are priorities, and then there are priorities, yaknowwhatImean? Wink wink nudge nudge? Because god damn, woe be any friend or enemy who is late! I disowned my own child for being born late, did I mention that? That’s right, inconsiderate bastard. I don’t fuck around when it comes to this.
[li]“Not sure how much of it was pure selfishness and controllable psycho behavior vs. some sort of uncontrollable mental glitch.”[/li]
Versus a perspective that doesn’t consider time the most important thing to think about.
[li]“While I’m not the time nazi that I used to be, I’m always 5 minutes early anyway. If I’m not, it drives me nuts![/li]I think that it’s down-right disrespectful of people to be chronically late when others have to wait for them. Rude, rude, rude! :mad:”

If this is not being a time nazi, apparently I have some other standards that need adjustment as well! Well, a path to enlightment is posted one thread at a time…
[li]“It is a lack of respect for other people’s time and a selfishness that says that whatever YOU are doing is more important than the other person’s time and plans…[/li]He and his wife are no longer friends of mine, for other reasons as well, but the whole “respect for my time” issue was right up there with the rest of them.”

*Well, thank heavens there are some other priorities there as well. This must be an ex-time-nazi as well. You ought to form a club. Hey, all the meetings could start five minutes early! But wait, then people would show up five minutes before that to be on time. But then you could start the meeting ten minutes early!

Uh-oh, I think I know where this is going! [cue laff track]*
[li]“People who are chronically late are creating a situation in which every single interaction they have with another person begins with the other person holding a grudge against them.”[/li]
Well that is a new one on me. Seems to me you are being a little presumptuous there in your assessment of people everywhere. I mean, what if two people who are chronically late meet each other, and both of them are late? Do they never speak again? Such a fascinating social dynamic to uncover!— Too bad it is bullshit dressed up in sheep vomit.
[li]“People who are chronically late want the attention of “WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN” or “WE’VE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU” so they feel like they were missed and are that important that life was held up just for them.[/li]I feel those people are sociopaths who need a frosty mug of straighten up and fly right.”

Sociopaths, folks, sociopaths. A danger to society and the timepieces we hold dear. We tried to get a public list available for posting on the internet and at police stations, complete with photos and everything, but strangely no one showed up at the appointed time.
[li]“For me, its a sign of disrespect. ‘You’re not worth enough time/worry/ whatever on my part to give a rat’s ass about your time table.’”[/li]
Classic. Hope that sword your carving such a clear path with doesn’t have two sharp edges on it. I’d hate to see you get hurt or put your foot in your mouth or say something hypocritical. Or something. Yep.
[li]“Chronically tardy people tend to be more narcissistic and self-absorbed than the rest of the populace. They also tend to vehemently deny these character traits in themselves.”[/li]
No way out of that one, is there? What a great trap! Have you stopped beating your wife?
[/ul]
From older thread [my comments are italicized]
[ul][li]“We quit going out with them - it wasn’t worth the aggravation.”[/li]
Boy howdy it wasn’t! You made a smart move. There are much more important things than people’s company… there’s TIME!
[li]"[My wife’s] father had a good saying. If you are late and making someone wait for you, you are telling them that your time is more important than theirs. Simply put, true and good advice."[/li]
I see. And expecting people to be punctual and live by your schedule is just common sense because you are the truest and rightest person ever, you cutie you!
[li]“I think the most rude things you can do are things that imply you think you’re more important than everyone else, and being late is such an implicit statement.”[/li]
Unlike the implicit statements of people who terminate friendships over something like being late? Or what?
[li]“Bet she wonders why nobody here wants to hang out with her anymore!”[/li]
I’ll bet she does, whoa, you showed her what friendship is all about, didntcha? High five!
[li]“People who are habitually late are completely disrespectful of the time and priorities of those they are meeting.”[/li]
Oh, I agree completely! Why can’t everyone just realize the simple fact that time is the same thing as my schedule and way of life? I don’t get it! I tell ya, those late people, they just don’t understand. How selfish of them!
[li]“My time is not more valuable, but neither is yours, get it?”[/li]
Right. Thus, we all follow your schedule and rules. Simple!
[li]“Some people have whole days off with nothing to do. Others have to visit the drycleaners, the school, the doctor, and the grocery store. If you make yourself inconvenient for the latter sort of person to see, then you’ll miss out on their friendship.”[/li]
IMNSHO, anyone who requires punctuality for friendship is likely not worth having as a friend.
[li]“I’m done with the debate. There’s a reason I don’t have any friends with your attitude anymore, and my life is significantly more stress free because of it.”[/li]
And might that reason be that you are a deeply hypocritical bitch?
[li]“Loudly seconding TVeblen, YES! Inconsiderate bastards will complain when you and your five friends cease waiting for them after 30 minutes. DUMP these people, they have all the empathy of garden slugs, give them a ‘Am I sociopathic’ pamphlet, anything.”[/li][li]“You’re not inconvenienced at all by being asked to stick to a schedule - your distress is caused entirely by your own self-importance.”[/ul][/li]But this, my friends, is not the end of the tale. It is the beginning. Sure, these comments might seem a little harsh for IMHO based on the number of people we can expect to be habitually late distributed throughout the population, but in fact there were people in the thread who admitted to being such people! Yes, my friends, a direct attack thus comes flying out.

These were particularly intriguing to me.

Listen up you motherfuckers. I am withholding names here for two reasons. One, I’m not pitting you. I’d like to, quite frankly, I really would, because let me tell you how much I hate being called a sociopath and arrogant and rude and so on by people I respect in an opinion forum (hell, I wouldn’t like being called these things anywhere but IMHO is definitely higher on that list than this forum). But I’m not. You walk into this thread and claim an opinion, that’s your call: you’ve got my vitrol. I’m not dragging you in, calling you out, or any other sort of ridiculous behavior. Two, some of the quotes above are from an old thread, and perhaps you’ve become a little nicer of person in this time. I don’t want to pin anyone to something they said a while ago.

Listen up you motherfuckers. I realize some people might have issues with being late. Considerate, thoughtful, intelligent, respectable people also realize that their time is no more important than mine, and we seek accord on that. You want facts? I’ve got a fact: expecting me to make nitpicky fucking schedules to see you would be just as annoying as me expecting you to wait on my lateness. Some of you cruel fucks would consider this minor fucking hurdle to seeing each other as a mountain of epic proportions. Tell your friends how much you love them. Next friend you see, you tell them, “I love you, you’re a great friend and all, but I tell ya what, if you ever stop being punctual, out the door with you you arrogant bastard.” FUCKING SAY IT TO EVERYONE. Your husbands and wives, you children, your friends… go on. Because that’s what it means to be your friend. And since having fucking precise contracts is so god damned important, make your fucking intentions clear now. Don’t just tell them how you feel, tell them everything you expect from them, tell them how you expect them to adopt your standards of politeness and explain that if they don’t adopt your standards they will “obviously” be “rude” and “arrogant” and “selfish”. Go ahead. Because that’s what you mean, isn’t it? That’s what you want in people.

Listen up you motherfuckers. You’ve got a double standard here. I don’t know what fucking incredibly asinine generalization you made to reach it, or how many assholes you had to come across to form it, and frankly I don’t much want to know. Because you’re wrong.

We aren’t all arrogant. We do care about people. We have some different priorities. Don’t fucking expect me to even grant YOUR (yes, your: you adopted them and you are enforcing them) standards any weight in my opinions if you can’t consider mine, either.

Assholes are assholes. Lots of them are on time.

2

And a lot of them are always late. So?

You really, honestly contend that being late isn’t at least a little rude and disrespectful to the people who have been inconvenienced? Just a little?

3

yadda yadda. Yes, it’s rude. Yes, it’s disrespectful.

I am one of the constantly late. This was not helped by the fact that I had a long commute. Anything OUT of schedule, I was early for - meetings, social appointments, etc.

In life, I was chronically late.
In some ways, this was a big problem - as me being late inconvenienced my 2 coworkers. We were the three tier 2 sups and only we three. When one of us was late it was an issue. So whenever my schedule overlapped one of theirs, I tried my damnedest to be there on time. If I was late, I apologized profusely. My average late time was 5-10 minutes after the beginning of the shift. This happened during my time in that position - and the preceding one - and the preceding one. I have talked to my bosses about it, and apologized, and told them I WOULD TRY! And in return not take any break during the day to make up for it, because I have been chronically late for years. This happened in college. This happened when waiting for the bus for school - once I got TO school there was never a problem.

Every single time I have made a resolution to BE ON TIME for the next thing to come along in my life, I manage to do so only so long as I do not fall into a routine. As soon as the routine comes along - BAM. Late.

I do my best to make up for this by working as hard as I can once I have gotten where I’m going and apologizing to those folks who are put out.

I’m human. Sorry :stuck_out_tongue:

4

Shouldn’t you have posted this thread sooner?

5

I am a chronically late person. I’d like to think that I’m not more than a few minutes late to most things (usually no more than 3 minutes late to work) but I know there have been times where I’ve been later than that. I am guilty, guilty, guilty.

I’d like to think that there are degrees of lateness. If someone says, “Meet me at 7:00 so we can go for a walk in the park”, I hope they can cope with the concept of me getting there at 7:05. I mean, people have often arrived 5 minutes late on me, and I managed to cope. But 15 is a little more worrysome, 30 minutes is getting to be too damned late, and so on.

If it’s a matter of “The movie starts at 4:00 and we want to get there at 3:30 so we can get good seats.”, I’ll try to be there on time. I may get there at 3:35, but I really try to get there on time.

I’ve also had friends be late on me. 5 minutes, 15 minutes I can cope with, if it’s something like walking in the park (where there is no set deadline where you have to be there or miss out). Or, if the late person calls and keeps everyone updated about what is going on. (As in, “I’m running a little late, but I’ll be there in 15 minutes. Why don’t you start without me?”) I usually can cope with this, and hope others can as well, depending on what kind of event we are all going to.

But a movie showing? No one likes to miss a movie because one person in their party can’t get their shit together. I am no exception. I remember one time where a group of us missed out on a movie because one girl just hemmed and hawed and would not get her ass in gear. Another friend was really pissed off about the ruined evening. She had just started a new job, was exhausted and was really looking forward to her day off. And it was screwed up by this one friend who was late.

So, I guess I’m saying that I can completely understand if people want to lay down the law with someone who is SO late that everyone else is missing out on movie showings, etc. etc. I mean, it sort of defeats going out at all, if you MISS the thing you want to see! I think in such cases, it’s perfectly OK to leave in time to see the movie, whether or not the late person has arrived or not.

But I don’t think that this means that all late people are evil and untrustworthy or whatever. I also would like to know—how late is too late? Do you get worked up over 2 minutes tardiness? I talked to a coworker the other day who was giving a ride to another (chronically late) coworker. This lady said that she was going to ditch the chronically late girl if she was late at ALL. I said, “Well, give her at least 3 minutes, (5 would be better) because you know, we all might have our watches set differently.” This woman grudgingly said she’d allow 3 minutes, but no longer. I guess if the girl were 4 minutes late, she’d be shit out of luck. I think that if the schedule is so tight and inflexible that a 5 minute “cushion” cannot be allowed, something is not right, and it’s not just with the girl who is late. But maybe that’s just me.

6

You will be punished. :smiley:

7

If you just stop and think for a second, maybe you’ll see it a different way. Isn’t it a little inconvenient to hold somebody to your rigid schedule when they would much prefer some wiggle room? It goes both ways, you know. You’re inconvenienced when you have to wait; they’re inconvenienced when they have to go out of their ways be there at a precise time. I don’t understand why your inconvenience is so much more important. I think that’s basically the gist of what erislover is saying.

8

Erislover,

You purport that you are unpunctual because you really don’t care about time. You further say it is not self centered, merely that you don’t mind waiting, and don’t care about clocks and such.

You are a mathematician.

I ask you for a probable random variation on arrival times for a totally unclocked, non time discriminating person and the proposed arrival time agreed to in advance by the participants. Around noon. You once said it means between 11 and one. Ok, we agreed to meet at noon. I mean a reasonable time before or after noon. You mean some time after late morning, but before early afternoon. We meet every day for a year. How often are you there at 11 o’clock, waiting for me for an hour? How often are you there after twelve thirty, wondering where the hell I am? How long after twelve thirty do you wait for me? (I left, by the way, at about twenty after.)

Are you early as often, and by as much as you are late?

It that is true, your assertions that it is not selfish are more palatable. All those hours you spent waiting for on time people to show up are an indication of the level of your consideration of their interests.

If that is not at least as often (and as long) an occurrence for you as it is for your punctual friends, then your contention is not based on observable facts. You should tell people, “Well, I might happen to drop by, during that three hour period, maybe I will see you there.” It would be more honest. I would also probably cut down on the number of times people invited you to things that actually happen.

When you invite people over to your house for dinner, are you pleased to see them at four o’clock? Five? Six? Seven? Eight? Nine? Ten? What if one shows up during each hour? Is that a delight to your lack of concern about time? What the heck did you fix for dinner? If you really mean that time is not important, then an invitation to your house is pretty much an expectation that I can come over whenever, and just come on in. I somehow doubt that your party invitations really mean “Anytime Saturday, or on into Sunday, til about noon, or so.”

Time matters to you. But the question is, are you as willing to arrive early and wait, as you are to arrive late, and expect anyone to have waited for you? Forgive me, but you have not mentioned yet, in these arguments, all those hours you have spent waiting for your slavishly punctual friends to show up, on time.

And if it is not so, then you have as much as admitted that you expect to be waited for, but arrange not to have to wait.

In my case, it matters little, even if we happen to meet and become regular associates. I don’t wait. I don’t mean I have an alarm set, to leave folks. But if you don’t show up in twenty minutes or a half an hour, I figure you’re dead. Maybe only unconscious, but definitely incapacitated, or you would have let me know. After all, you care enough about me that I arranged to spend time with you. I am worried. But I don’t expect you to show up now, expecting to do whatever we had planned to do half an hour ago. That moment has passed.

And by the way, you said you are on time for work. I assume that must be because your work is the joy of your life, and not because you know you would be fired for being habitually late. So, you love your friends less than your job, or at least you fear their wrath less than that of your boss. And these are your friends.

Tris

9

Tris, I forget which of the two threads I mentioned but it is the case that when the wiggling room was allowed and definite times weren’t set for meeting (no easy thing to accomplish with most people) I was often there before them—the only way, you might see, a person who doesn’t pay that much attention to time can be early. Yep. I don’t know whether it balanced out or was more to me “waiting” or them waiting (:mad:**) or what. I recall the anticipation of doing something with someone, that’s most of the impression I am left with. Not paying attention to this sort of thing often I can’t really claim a perfect memory here, but I remember waiting more than I remember not waiting. To be fair I don’t think I can claim like I did that I was early more often than not. I do know I am rarely early when a set time is made because I try and squeeze as much in before the “meeting” or whatever as I can, allotting for traffic and such, and seem to be terrible at estimating such times (you might be able to guess why) so end up either right on time or a few minutes late.

It is pretty hard not to be, I can be there any time between 7:30 and 9:30AM. I tried making it 10:30 but I was asked to move it up an hour for a two-hour flex time instead of three.

Only if you consider “being on time” to be a critical factor in such things. Which, you may have guessed, I don’t. I forgive my friends annoyances; I find other jobs. That is love, dear Tris, and I think you would agree. :slight_smile:

LOL, unless something came up I would be there until you arrived or outside that rather flexible meeting time (maybe, depends on what else there is to do, I might stay later just because I can).

That is certainly one way to look at it. Another comes from the military chow lines: hurry up and wait. :smiley:

The Weak Force
Yes!

10

Listen up you motherfuckers. I realize some people might have issues with being late. Considerate, thoughtful, intelligent, respectable people also realize that their time is no more important than mine, and we seek accord on that.

That may be a politically correct stance, but it simply isn’t true.
You also suggest that those who don’t equate their time with yours aren’t considerate or possess any of the other attributes.
You’re certainly considerate enough to accomodate other’s thoughts on this. Oh wait, they aren’t thoughtful.

Forgive me, I only glanced through the linked relevant thread. What’s not clear to me is if the discussion is limited to punctuality within the context of a causal, informal appointment (friends agreeing to meet at a mall) or to all appointments. If the former, then your quoted assertion is a touch more credible. Even in that case, I consider it disrespectful if you atleast don’t communicate to your friend in advance that you have a habit of being late or not taking the decided time to heart.

Weak Force
You’re inconvenienced when you have to wait; they’re inconvenienced when they have to go out of their ways be there at a precise time. I don’t understand why your inconvenience is so much more important.

Yes, doesn’t that depend on whether the time is mutually decided in advance ? If so, you are not going out of your way.

11

I’ve tried re-reading the OP, re-reading it and mentally dropping all of the quotes and profanity, reading the posts that follow and then re-reading the OP with them as context, and I still have no real idea what your point is.

I have a couple of possible interpretations, but I’d like to have it clarified.

Any chance you could dumb it down a bit, now that you’ve gotten it off your chest?

12

It’s not MY schedule, it’s OUR schedule, the timing we agreed to. Depending on travel time, traffic jams, etc, etc, a reasonable person allow some wiggle room, but an agreed to time should be your target. Can’t make 7:00? Tell me to make it 7:30. Don’t just show up late and say you couldn’t get out. When I ask for a time to meet, I’m looking for a time that is convenient for you, so pick a good time!

That’s all the punctual people are asking for! That late people treat the time of others with respect and consideration. YOUR time is not wasted when you’re late, but MY time is. If you’re constantly late, there is a distinct pattern of my time being wasted, while yours is not. Since this pattern is a direct result of your actions, it is easy to show that you consider your time precious (no waste) and my time cheap (lots of waste). This is why it is considered rude.

To put it another way, if you were considerate, thoughtful, intelligent and respectable, you would realize that your time is no more important than anyone else’s. You would then make a point of not constantly wasting the time of others (by being chronically late), since you don’t waste your own time similarly.

13

Because you (no, not you, the late person), agreed to be somewhere at a certain time. Nobody held a gun to your head. And now you’re breaking your own commitment. This is called lying. Grow the fuck up.

14

Okay, I’m one of the habitually early. I’m early for everything and usually end up driving around the block a few times to get closer to the agreed upon time. The habitually late don’t bother me though. If someone’s always late, I tell them to get there earlier than everyone else. I’ll be there and expect them to be late. No big deal.

I wouldn’t end a friendship because someone is always late. Friendship (to me) is a lot more important than punctuality.

15

I’d sure as hell modify the friendship. I may have to eliminate one-on-one meetings, movie dates, some invitations, and just see my so-called dear friend whenever I see the late one.

16

I think that’s the issue in a nutshell.

Give me a clue as to what you can really do. If you don’t want to say “I’ll be there at 7:00,” say, “I’ll be there between 7:00 and 7:30” (or whatever) and then **do[/] it. That way I can manage my own time and not be worrying if you’ve had a wreck en route or something equally awful.

Some of us DO worry, you know.

17

Wah wah wah. It’s fucking rude, erislover, deal with it. If you don’t like it, ditch the “time nazis” the way we ditch the people who couldn’t give a fuck. That’s the rgeat thing about this world - there’s plenty people in it. Have a little group of friends that never see each other because they all operate on different clocks and don’t care. But don’t expect me to be thrilled to hang out with you when you suddenly decide to come off your cloud and see me.

Either grow up and realize the world doesn’t revolve around you any more than it does around anyone else or just come out and say you’re the big fucking grand poobah and everyone else just needs to deal with it or fuck off. Just don’t be surprised if many of them opt to fuck off rather than to wait until you’re ready to admit them into your presence.

18

Eris, I’ve liked your posts for quite some time, however, I can’t get behind you on this one.

If I’m getting together with someone and we agree on 1.30pm as the time we are meeting, you’re damn skippy I expect them to be there on time. I don’t think it’s a case of my saying my time is more important than theirs, it’s saying that my time is as important as theirs, hence the mutally agreed upon time to meet.

I really don’t understand how someone failing to show up on a mutally agreed time is not rude, but the person that expects a commitment to be honoured is an asshole.

19

Show the fuck up on time you disrespectful, irresposible asshole. Five minutes late most of the time, OK. Half an hour late on very, very rare occasions, OK. Something unexpected happened, OK. Habitually very late all the time, find a new sucker, I’m not playing with you anymore.

How 'bout this? You lend me $100 whenever I need it. Sometimes I pay you back $100, most of the time I pay you back $95, every so often I pay you back $50. How much fucking longer will you lend me money. What’s the big deal?

I may have told you about my friend Bob. Bob didn’t have a reliable car so whenever there was a Greatful Dead show, we’d drive Bob with us up to the Bay Area, a five hour drive. Mrs. H and I like to be on time. We like to get going when we want to get going. In this case it was our car and our gas. We’d get to Bob’s at the agreed upon time and he’d be fucking off and not nearly ready. One time we were ten minutes down the road and he realized he forgot his toothbrush and we went back so he could get it.

Finally, I had enough. He called us to bum another ride and I gave him the conditions. We will be at your apartment at 10:00 am. You will be ready. The bus leaves at 10:05 and will not return. Do not test me on this. Bob was standing at his door with a packed suitcase when we pulled up. It wasn’t that hard at all. It was the same story the next time but that was the last time he rode with us. We heard through the grapevine that he couldn’t deal with having to be ready for us so he bummed rides from someone else after that. Either way, problem solved.

Haj

20

Please bear in mind in what follows that I am not talking about 5-10 minutes, but about hours, and not about occasional things that come up like your child throwing up on you as you are leaving–we are talking about chronic situations.

It seems to me the issue is consequences. All too often, the consequences of a late arrival do not fall on the late person but on their friends, coworkers or family. It is, of course, the choice of the friends to wait, and they do so out of (perhaps misguided) politeness or a sense of responsibility.

Examples from above and related threads: Chronically late person arrives late for movie date, another person’s day off is ruined by not getting to see movie. Chronically late person agrees to take pictures at surprise party, arrives late, no pictures taken, disappointing others. Chronically late person arrives late for dinner, dinner spoiled/others hungry/hostess stressed out.
Late person doesn’t arrive for walk on time, therefore someone else’s plans for the rest of the afternoon become rushed or impossible. Person arrives late for work, other supervisors have to stay late/pick up the slack.

At least over the short run, the consequences of lateness do not fall on the late person, but on those they inconvenience.

However, over a longer term, the consequences do revert to the late person–built up anger, loss of friendship, loss of job or advancement, loss of opportunities as others cease to invite them.

One method of dealing with this–and one I’ve tried to learn to use–is to make the short term consequences fall onto the late person. If you arrive late for dinner, dinner will be over. If you are not on time for the movie, the rest of us will go in anyway. Certain businesses deal with this in a similar way–if you are late picking up your child from day care, there is a hefty “fine.” I wonder, for example, if the supervisor who was frequently late would have managed to be on time if she had to forfeit an hour or two of pay to her co-workers each time?

The hardest thing for me has been getting over my sense of “niceness” or politeness. A deep belief that somehow I am wrong for not bending over backwards to accommodate someone who has chosen to violate an implied social contract. It has been hard to overcome the “guilt” of going in to the movie in time to watch the beginning when the full party has not arrived. But we’ve learned to do it, because the alternative of feeling used is worse.

Anyway, that’s my two cents worth–actions have consequences and it’s a choice to take them upon yourself. Most of the time, a late person can only inconvenience you if you allow them to. If there are short term unpleasant results, a chronically late person will have a better idea of the implications of their choices, and perhaps compromises can be reached. If there are no consequences, why should they modify their behavior?

For what it’s worth, our chronically late person has not modified her behavior. She has never expressed any resentment about missing meals, movies, baby showers. The rest of us, however, are much more relaxed and happy, because we go about our lives and just let her drift in and out on her own schedule. We NEVER plan anything around her anymore. We never assume she will show up. And we never worry if she is late. Pretty sad, really.