Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-30-2003, 08:52 PM
caveman caveman is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: City of the Violet Crown
Posts: 1,460
In the same vain or vein?

"In the same vein"

"In the same vain"

Which is the correct form of this transitional phrase?
(search turned up nada)

Bonus points for cites!
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:05 PM
Ringo Ringo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 11,261
The expression is properly "in the same vein." The definition of vein as given here is:

Quote:
"(1) Rib supporting an insect wing; (2) vessel carrying blood from capillaries toward the heart; (3) conduit for fluid in a leaf."(B79 - Animalia (Animals) / Plantae (Plants) associated terms)
I believe the usage in the expression would come from parts 2 and 3 above, where the vein is a pathway, the idea being that the thought being introduced by the expression "in the same vein" takes the same or a similar pathway as the referenced idea. I can't imagine how "vain" would be worked into the usage.
  #3  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:19 PM
Jimmy Chitwood Jimmy Chitwood is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Near Philadelphia
Posts: 6,435
Vein.
Quote:
c. in the vein, in a fit or suitable mood for something.
Link- section 14 c., way down near the bottom.
  #4  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:29 PM
Kamino Neko Kamino Neko is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Alternate 230
Posts: 14,396
It's vein. As to an explaination, definitions 4 and 5 for Vein here might fit better than the 3 from Ringo's link:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vein

Quote:
4. Geology. A regularly shaped and lengthy occurrence of an ore; a lode.
5. A long wavy strip of a different shade or color, as in wood or marble, or as mold in cheese
  #5  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:36 PM
Ringo Ringo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 11,261
It might at that. Nevertheless, the idea with a blood vessel, a conduit, a lengthy occurence or a long strip is one of connection.
  #6  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:53 PM
Ringo Ringo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Houston, TX, USA
Posts: 11,261
And I'll note that a google search on both phrases turns up quite a few "vain" usages, none of which make much sense. I suppose, maybe, if you were comparing a couple of prima donnas...
  #7  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:54 PM
Boyo Jim Boyo Jim is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 36,997
vein, no question in my pointy head about it.
  #8  
Old 06-30-2003, 09:56 PM
Dr_Paprika Dr_Paprika is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: South of Toronto, Canada
Posts: 3,525
Vein.

I thought it always came form the mining definition... along with the golds and diamonds and what have you...
  #9  
Old 07-01-2003, 05:53 AM
refusal refusal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Posts: 739
A useful resource for this sort of question is the Collins Cobuild Concordance, a searchable database of English sentences used as the basis of their dictionaries: search it for "in the same vein|vain" to match both forms, and it has nearly 20 uses of "vein" and none of "vain".
  #10  
Old 07-01-2003, 06:10 AM
hammos1 hammos1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 507
Case closed- can we deal with 'For all intensive purposes' now?
  #11  
Old 07-01-2003, 06:12 AM
Who_me? Who_me? is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 3,065
You mean, "For all intents and purposes"?
  #12  
Old 07-01-2003, 06:20 AM
WILLASS WILLASS is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Southampton
Posts: 1,003
buck naked or butt naked? I always thought the latter but a lot of people use the former.
  #13  
Old 07-01-2003, 06:24 AM
Shade Shade is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Cambridge. No, the UK one
Posts: 4,272
vain isn't even a noun! Oh, who am I kidding, I've no idea where the phrase comes from, I just assumed it was vein.
  #14  
Old 09-14-2010, 08:49 PM
czerwins@sbcglobal.net czerwins@sbcglobal.net is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1
vain vein vane

http://www.grammar-monster.com/easil..._vein_vane.htm

(1) A vein is a blood vessel or a distinctive style.
(2) Vain means 'self admiring' or 'futile'. The term 'in vain' means 'without success'.
(3) A vane is a stabilizing fin or blade.
  #15  
Old 09-14-2010, 09:36 PM
Shmendrik Shmendrik is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,541
Since this zombie has risen from the grave, it's worth pointing out that Google gives 13M results for vein vs 270K results for vain. Either the OP didn't do a very good job of searching, or we are witnessing the march of progress before our very eyes.
  #16  
Old 09-15-2010, 08:54 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 38,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLASS View Post
buck naked or butt naked? I always thought the latter but a lot of people use the former.
I'm 63 and only heard or used the term "buck naked" since childhood. The internet is full of speculation as to where the term came from, including that it may have originally morphed from "butt naked", which doesn't seem likely. I never heard "butt naked" until recent years.


Ah crap, I'm talking to a zombie.

Last edited by Chefguy; 09-15-2010 at 08:54 AM.
  #17  
Old 09-15-2010, 09:14 AM
Candyman74 Candyman74 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLASS View Post
buck naked or butt naked? I always thought the latter but a lot of people use the former.
You are correct, at least in my neck of the woods. I've never heard "buck naked" before.

Last edited by Candyman74; 09-15-2010 at 09:14 AM.
  #18  
Old 09-15-2010, 09:32 AM
Darth Panda Darth Panda is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 5,681
Naked zombies!!!
  #19  
Old 09-15-2010, 09:40 AM
Colophon Colophon is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Hampshire, England
Posts: 13,331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candyman74 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLASS View Post
buck naked or butt naked? I always thought the latter but a lot of people use the former.
You are correct, at least in my neck of the woods. I've never heard "buck naked" before.
The original form (and still the correct one, at least here in the UK) is "buck naked". It seems to have mutated in recent years, in the same way that "off your own bat" is often mangled into "off your own back".
  #20  
Old 09-15-2010, 10:01 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 38,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candyman74 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLASS View Post
buck naked or butt naked? I always thought the latter but a lot of people use the former.
You are correct, at least in my neck of the woods. I've never heard "buck naked" before.
Am I correct that in your neck of the woods, they also say "nekkid"?
  #21  
Old 09-15-2010, 11:54 AM
Candyman74 Candyman74 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post

Am I correct that in your neck of the woods, they also say "nekkid"?
Eh?
  #22  
Old 09-15-2010, 02:41 PM
The Great Sun Jester The Great Sun Jester is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 13,233
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colophon View Post
The original form (and still the correct one, at least here in the UK) is "buck naked". It seems to have mutated in recent years, in the same way that "off your own bat" is often mangled into "off your own back".
What does this phrase even mean? Did Brits frequently own carrier bats to deliver messages to one another? So taking one person's idea for your own would be met with the derisive comment, "You clearly didn't develop that proposal off you your own bat"--meaning "You've been intercepting other peoples' carrier bats and reading the messages!"

Brits are weird.
  #23  
Old 09-15-2010, 02:46 PM
Candyman74 Candyman74 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colophon View Post
The original form (and still the correct one, at least here in the UK) is "buck naked". It seems to have mutated in recent years, in the same way that "off your own bat" is often mangled into "off your own back".
What does this phrase even mean? Did Brits frequently own carrier bats to deliver messages to one another? So taking one person's idea for your own would be met with the derisive comment, "You clearly didn't develop that proposal off you your own bat"--meaning "You've been intercepting other peoples' carrier bats and reading the messages!"

Brits are weird.
Cricket bat. But I'm sure you guessed that.

Last edited by Candyman74; 09-15-2010 at 02:47 PM.
  #24  
Old 09-15-2010, 02:59 PM
Looey Looey is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 85
I wish I could remember the comedian's name who described the difference between naked and nekkid.

Naked means y'ain't got no clothes on. Nekkid means y'ain't got no clothes on... and yer up to somethin'!
  #25  
Old 09-15-2010, 03:05 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
SDSAB
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: my Herkimer Battle Jitney
Posts: 70,932
Quote:
Originally Posted by Candyman74 View Post
... I've never heard "buck naked" before.
You've got to be kidding. It's George Costanza's porn name!
  #26  
Old 09-16-2012, 05:00 AM
jepflast jepflast is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: None
Posts: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looey View Post
I wish I could remember the comedian's name who described the difference between naked and nekkid.

Naked means y'ain't got no clothes on. Nekkid means y'ain't got no clothes on... and yer up to somethin'!
It was Jeff Foxworthy, and it's the other way around: nekkid is simple nudity.

In other news, "buck naked" is the original and "butt naked" is a later misrendering.

Actually I just stopped by to see why this thread had 47,000 views. I still don't know.
  #27  
Old 09-16-2012, 05:20 AM
saje saje is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 2,097
And this is the second time it's bee resurrected.
  #28  
Old 09-16-2012, 07:40 AM
Cub Mistress Cub Mistress is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Middle Tennessee
Posts: 3,135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looey View Post
I wish I could remember the comedian's name who described the difference between naked and nekkid.

Naked means y'ain't got no clothes on. Nekkid means y'ain't got no clothes on... and yer up to somethin'!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jepflast View Post
It was Jeff Foxworthy, and it's the other way around: nekkid is simple nudity.

In other news, "buck naked" is the original and "butt naked" is a later misrendering.

Actually I just stopped by to see why this thread had 47,000 views. I still don't know.

Lewis Grizzard
, actually. Looey had it the right way 'round.
  #29  
Old 09-16-2012, 08:59 AM
johnpost johnpost is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,056
double zombie or no

nekkid is in the same vein as naked.
  #30  
Old 09-16-2012, 09:11 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 38,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
And I'll note that a google search on both phrases turns up quite a few "vain" usages, none of which make much sense. I suppose, maybe, if you were comparing a couple of prima donnas...
Or, as one of my employees wrote, a pre madonna. I guess that would have been Cher.

Goddamn it, suckered into the same zombie thread....again!

Last edited by Chefguy; 09-16-2012 at 09:13 AM.
  #31  
Old 09-16-2012, 09:19 AM
johnpost johnpost is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 12,056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
Ah crap, I'm talking to a zombie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
Goddamn it, suckered into the same zombie thread....again!
are both in the same vein.
  #32  
Old 09-16-2012, 11:26 AM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 38,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnpost View Post
are both in the same vein.
AAAUUUUUGGHHHH!! ::falls on floor in a Belushi fit::
  #33  
Old 09-16-2012, 12:48 PM
Kenm Kenm is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 3,314
"Humor in a jugular vein" — Mad
  #34  
Old 09-16-2012, 01:29 PM
rsat3acr rsat3acr is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenm View Post
"Humor in a jugular vein" Mad
man that brings back memories
  #35  
Old 09-16-2012, 02:45 PM
John Mace John Mace is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Bay
Posts: 79,466
I never saw this coming down the pipe.
  #36  
Old 10-04-2013, 03:18 PM
Bilbo Baggins Bilbo Baggins is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1
In the Same Vein

Dr. Paprika wins! (See his post in 2003).

The actual first use in literature of "in the same vein" is indeed an American mining expression.

To wit, in underground rock layers gold is found running in veins. So is silver. Sometimes there will be a slight admixture.

Thus, the miner's query, "Is it gold?" answered by, "I don't know, but it is running in the same vein."
  #37  
Old 10-04-2013, 03:57 PM
Munch Munch is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 21,897
Triple zombie!
  #38  
Old 10-04-2013, 06:04 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sturgeon Bay, WI USA
Posts: 19,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munch View Post
Triple zombie!
I'm afraid, Sir, that your exclaimed protest is in vain.
  #39  
Old 10-05-2013, 02:10 AM
naita naita is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Norway
Posts: 4,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo Baggins View Post
Dr. Paprika wins! (See his post in 2003).

The actual first use in literature of "in the same vein" is indeed an American mining expression.
Cite?
  #40  
Old 10-05-2013, 04:14 AM
Patty O'Furniture Patty O'Furniture is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Bangkok/52/Male
Posts: 8,869
Veinnnnnns!
__________________
Join Date: May 20, 1999
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Posts: 8,861
  #41  
Old 10-05-2013, 12:24 PM
ZenBeam ZenBeam is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: I'm right here!
Posts: 8,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munch View Post
Triple zombie!
Where's Chefguy?
  #42  
Old 10-06-2013, 04:36 PM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 38,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenBeam View Post
Where's Chefguy?
Why aorta. . .
  #43  
Old 10-08-2013, 09:17 AM
born too late born too late is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: madtown
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
Why aorta. . .
You really should of.

It really greats on my nerves when people have problems with homophones.
  #44  
Old 08-11-2015, 12:04 PM
Veronica Camelbile Veronica Camelbile is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1
I have thought that this may have been a term used regarding enslaved African men. And thus, it has morphed into "butt naked" attempting to be sensitive to that possibility (political correctness . . . just in case). It appears that the male deer is what most people are thinking of (not perhaps first on the mind of city folk) -- so I'd say I prefer "buck naked" and the latter is just a new use or, as mentioned, an attempt to not offend.
  #45  
Old 08-11-2015, 01:08 PM
markn+ markn+ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,041
A zombie thread about naked zombies!

While "buck" historically can mean a black man, it has dozens of other meanings. The Historical Dictionary of American Slang lists "buck-bathing" with the derivation "buck (naked) + bathing". So "buck" by itself can mean naked which seems the obvious derivation of "buck naked".

--Mark
  #46  
Old 08-11-2015, 01:19 PM
ThelmaLou ThelmaLou is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veronica Camelbile View Post
I have thought that this may have been a term used regarding enslaved African men. And thus, it has morphed into "butt naked" attempting to be sensitive to that possibility (political correctness . . . just in case). It appears that the male deer is what most people are thinking of (not perhaps first on the mind of city folk) -- so I'd say I prefer "buck naked" and the latter is just a new use or, as mentioned, an attempt to not offend.
My bold.

Yes, this is the origin of the phrase "buck naked," i.e., standing naked and vulnerable on the auction block (as in "black buck"). Sad, not politically correct, but true.
  #47  
Old 08-11-2015, 01:21 PM
markn+ markn+ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 1,041
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
My bold.
Yes, this is the origin of the phrase "buck naked," i.e., standing naked and vulnerable on the auction block (as in "black buck"). Sad, not politically correct, but true.
Citation?

--Mark
  #48  
Old 08-11-2015, 01:27 PM
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Lincoln, IL
Posts: 23,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
Yes, this is the origin of the phrase "buck naked," i.e., standing naked and vulnerable on the auction block (as in "black buck"). Sad, not politically correct, but true.
Do you have a cite for this?

All I've been able to find online are various unsubstantiated theories as to the origin of the phrase.
  #49  
Old 08-11-2015, 01:32 PM
Biotop Biotop is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Faber, VA
Posts: 6,338
It is quite common to see a metal rooster and the four directional letters all in the same vane.
  #50  
Old 08-11-2015, 02:36 PM
outlierrn outlierrn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: republic of california
Posts: 5,282
Who ever heard of a vain zombie?
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:58 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright 2017 Sun-Times Media, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017