The Straight Dope

Go Back   Straight Dope Message Board > Main > In My Humble Opinion (IMHO)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-07-2003, 05:35 PM
Palo Verde Palo Verde is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
nude camps for kids?

The New York Times did an article (can't link because it's a subscription only site) and then Time Magazine also followed up with another article. They were about nude summer camp for kids aged 11-18. I can only find links to articles about the NYT article http://www.sptimes.com/2003/06/19/St...outh_cam.shtml

Almost all of these kids come from nudist families and so they are very used to seeing and being naked.

But something seems creepy about it to me. Especially boys who are around 14 need no stimulation at all to get... shall we say all riled up. This just seems like asking for trouble.

What do y'all think about it?
Reply With Quote
Advertisements  
  #2  
Old 07-07-2003, 06:05 PM
aaslatten aaslatten is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
It does seem creepy, but there's nothing illegal going on and nudist camps tend to be very well regulated for just that reason. I have a friend who went to such camps as a youngster in Holland and she turned out fine. It's just a different lifestyle, I guess.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-07-2003, 09:12 PM
Duderdude2 Duderdude2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
The only reason it seems "Creepy" is because our society is so damn anal about nudity, etc. Were you born with clothes? I think not.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-07-2003, 10:02 PM
Shakes Shakes is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas Tx.
Posts: 9,384
Quote:
Originally posted by Duderdude2
The only reason it seems "Creepy" is because our society is so damn anal about nudity, etc. Were you born with clothes? I think not.
Its still creepy regardless. Beside I think if mommy and daddy want to be a nudust thats fine; but they shouldn't throw their children into it. I know if my mom sent me to a nudist camp when I was a kid I'd be horrified!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-07-2003, 10:10 PM
Duderdude2 Duderdude2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Quote:
Originally posted by SHAKES
Its still creepy regardless. Beside I think if mommy and daddy want to be a nudust thats fine; but they shouldn't throw their children into it. I know if my mom sent me to a nudist camp when I was a kid I'd be horrified!
"Regardless..." Wait, what?! Youíre insinuating that society doesnít play a role in the perception of nudity? Thatís ridiculous. Itís entirely society, and itís illogical to believe otherwise. Copious indian tribes are nude the majority of the time, which includes children, and they donít possess any of these artificial hang-ups.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-07-2003, 10:17 PM
aaslatten aaslatten is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Just for the record, I wouldn't exactly say clothing is an "artificial hangup." Have you ever tried walking in the woods or for that matter playing volleyball without clothes?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-08-2003, 01:41 AM
Duderdude2 Duderdude2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Quote:
Originally posted by aaslatten
Just for the record, I wouldn't exactly say clothing is an "artificial hangup." Have you ever tried walking in the woods or for that matter playing volleyball without clothes?
Itís a good thing clothing wasnít an implication I intended to convey with the words "artificial hangup."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-08-2003, 04:58 AM
CrazyCatLady CrazyCatLady is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Well, Shakes, you'd be horrified because you weren't brought up nudist. If you'd been around nudism all your life, it wouldn't be any big thing to you, so you wouldn't be horrified.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-08-2003, 05:15 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 18,006
As if string bikinis and micro-speedos really covered anything...

It's not creepy at all to me, and I wasn't raised nudist. Obciously, there have to be some rules about interactions in such places, but that's no different than having rules when you're walking down a street fully clothed. Are some of the men going to have an occassional erection? Sure - they do that WITH clothes on, too.

It's not that you'd stop noticing who was male and female, but after a short while of everyone being naked it wouldn't have such a huge impact.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-08-2003, 06:27 AM
FairyChatMom FairyChatMom is offline
I'm nice, dammit!
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Southern Merrylande
Posts: 27,161
Good grief, it's just skin!!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-08-2003, 06:33 AM
Shakes Shakes is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Dallas Tx.
Posts: 9,384
Quote:
Originally posted by Duderdude2
"Regardless..." Wait, what?! Youíre insinuating that society doesnít play a role in the perception of nudity? Thatís ridiculous. Itís entirely society, and itís illogical to believe otherwise. Copious indian tribes are nude the majority of the time, which includes children, and they donít possess any of these artificial hang-ups.

No I'm saying society does play a role in our percetion of nudity. I'm also saying that it doesn't matter why we think its creepy, it's still creepy regardless. Its not east negating years of programing like that with just a whim. (at least not for me)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-08-2003, 06:54 AM
Bill H. Bill H. is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Another vote for way creepy. Like it or not, nudity has an element of sex in it. Anything consensual between adults works for me. But kids are a different story.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-08-2003, 07:16 AM
plnnr plnnr is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
I was at the American Association of Nude Recreation Junior Leadership Retreat about 3 weeks ago. About 100 kids, mostly teenagers, all nude, chaperoned. Aside from a couple water balloon fights and a bee sting, nothing unusual took place.

The belief that nudity HAS to have an element of sex in it is ridiculous.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-08-2003, 07:29 AM
Bill H. Bill H. is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
plnnr wrote
Quote:
The belief that nudity HAS to have an element of sex in it is ridiculous.
I find it very hard to believe that any but the tiniest minority of humans can completely ignore the sexual aspects of seeing another nude.

Strikes me as very poor parenting. The fact that chaperoning is even required should tell you something.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-08-2003, 07:32 AM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
What were you doing there, Plnnr? Are you a nudist?

I don't think its "creepy" per se, because these kids weren't forced to go. They go because that's the lifestyle they're accustomed to.

I don't think I would send a "standard" kid to a camp like that (unless he or she wanted to go). We are very hung up about nudity in this country, and it would do us all some good to try to get over it a little.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-08-2003, 07:34 AM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Bill H....chaperoning is required at all events involving teenagers. All dances, sporting events, practically every minute of their lives is chaperoned in one way or another. When they're alone, they explore sex. Big whoop. It's natural.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-08-2003, 07:40 AM
refusal refusal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2002
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill H.
Another vote for way creepy. Like it or not, nudity has an element of sex in it.
Have you seen how 12 year old girls dress these days? Are you saying that has nothing to do with sex? Is it really any better for a girl that age to be dressed like Britney Spears rather than to be naked? (Damn, I think I'm turning into someone's father.)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-08-2003, 07:46 AM
Evil Captor Evil Captor is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Re: running around naked in the woods

Didn't you ever watch the Discovery Channel or its ilk? South American Indians run around in the JUNGLE with nothing but a string around their waists. Clothing is necessary in colder climes, but there's nothing inherently natural about it, it's a technology we've adopted along with everything else.

Although I've never been all that interested in nudism myself, it doesn't bother me at all.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-08-2003, 08:03 AM
plnnr plnnr is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
My SO and I and about 1000 other people were at the resort where the meeting was being held. As was pointed out, the kids at the retreat had been raised in that lifestyle and think nothing about it. Unlike some, they realize that skin is just skin. There isn't anything sexual about nudity unless one wants to think about nudity in a sexual way. I certainly don't feel particularly sexual when I'm taking a shower, laying by the pool, or laying on the beach.

And as I suspect you don't know any of the parents of the kids who were there, Bill H., I don't know that you're qualified to express an opinion about their parenting skills.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-08-2003, 08:23 AM
Aro Aro is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
My GF and her family are Danish. She was brought up with many of her family holidays being to naturist resorts where no one thought anything about the kids running about nude. It was never a sexual thing. She now has no real interest in attending naturist resorts in her adult life, but neither her nor I see any particular harm in it at any age.

I agree it may be an unsuitable activity for some children if they do become very self-conscious about themselves and their bodies during or beyond puberty. This I can understand. But if all the kids involved have the same attitude (i.e. it doesnít matter) them fair dues to them. As long as the choice to participate or not is theirs to make, itís no big deal at all.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-08-2003, 08:59 AM
js_africanus js_africanus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill H.
I find it very hard to believe that any but the tiniest minority of humans can completely ignore the sexual aspects of seeing another nude.
I find it hard to believe that a person smart enough to use a computer can't understand that his perceptions are subject to compelling cultural prejudices. To put another way, as Jean Baudrillard referenced in Seduction, to those for whom nudity is a way of life, the nude body is "all face". The breasts are no more sexual than the lips and tongue. Can you honestly tell us that you have never watched a young woman speak and found yourself completely fixated on her mouth, watching her soft, moist lips and her warm, enticing tongue, wondering at the heavenly, feminine bliss you could lose yourself in--even if it was for just one kiss? To put it another way, your reaction to nudism is the moral equivalent to the Taliban's reaction to a woman sans burka.

You've given no reason to assume that a nudist camp is more sexualized than a clothed camp. Indeed, how many self-appointed experts on sexuality have claimed that the human form is far more alluring when something is left "to the imagination"? By that calculation a nudist camp should be the least sexualized place available!

Do you think a bathing suit will protect your daughter from a molester? Do you think that a pair of cutoff jeans will make a predator less likely to pursue a young boy or girl?
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-08-2003, 09:05 AM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Plnnr said, "My SO and I and about 1000 other people were at the resort where the meeting was being held. "

Were they just talking about it or were they actively being nudists (probably in a private section of the resort)?

I've seen programs about nudist groups. They don't have sexual thoughts that are brought on soley by the sight of the naked body. My guess is they don't own much naugahide furniture, either.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-08-2003, 09:37 AM
Bill H. Bill H. is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
js_africanus wrote
Quote:
To put it another way, your reaction to nudism is the moral equivalent to the Taliban's reaction to a woman sans burka.
That's exactly right, although clearly the Taliban's tolerance level is much lower than my own. However:

a) I never said anything about my expectations or interests or disinterests in nudity. We're talking about children.
b) Your point above is right on the money. A society defines what is the norm and what is acceptable for children. In my definition, forcing girls to weark burka's is extreme, and encouraging them to be nude together is also extreme in the other direction. And I think it's fair to say that better than 90% of Americans would agree.
c) All of the arguments in this thread about how natural the human body is could be taken further. For example, is there really anything harmful in having sex in front of children? It is after all a perfectly natural thing to do. Well, I for one don't think that is acceptable as good parenting.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 07-08-2003, 10:09 AM
handy handy is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Pacific Grove, Calif
Posts: 17,493
At the local beach the kids play in the water naked....why wouldn't it be like that?

I wonder what they do for camp sports? Skateboarding, horseback riding?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 07-08-2003, 10:24 AM
js_africanus js_africanus is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill H.
a) I never said anything about my expectations or interests or disinterests in nudity. We're talking about children.
So? Parents have a right to raise their kids. Hanging around nude is hardly more damaging to a child than instilling the ridiculous superstition that some angry guy in the sky will send them to hell if they don't submit to his worship extortion scheme, but parents have the right to poison their kids with that nonsense, too. If you can't provide a reason, other than some vague assertion that nude=sexual, then you have no grounds for complaint. If you can show that this is actually harmful, then you have the beginnings of a case.

Quote:
Your point above is right on the money.
Of course it is. Since you agree with it, it is interesting that you seem to imply that whatever is the cultural norm is what is acceptable to you. The burka requirement is extreme only because you don't come from the Taliban's culture. But if you were, then you would agree that the burka requirement is perfectly reasonable, since you've agreed with my point that the cultural view on what parts of the body are sexual is completely arbitrary. But since they're arbitrary, and since you offer no reason to view one as superior to another, we can only conclude that while you view the burka requirement as extreme, that is outside of what you consider to be the norm, there is no grounds to change it. It is merely unusual to you. The burka requirement is no more unacceptable than the requirement that women in Detroit aren't allowed to walk around topless. Indeed, since the burka requirement is acceptable, nudist parents requiring their children to go nude is acceptable as long as the nudist can be considered thier own cultural group--because that's their norm.

Indeed, why is it that a cultural practice should be forced on people just because it is what you perceive as normal?

Quote:
c) All of the arguments in this thread about how natural the human body is could be taken further. For example, is there really anything harmful in having sex in front of children? It is after all a perfectly natural thing to do. Well, I for one don't think that is acceptable as good parenting.
I don't care what you think. I care about the case that you can make for your moral stance. I'm extremely skeptical that "don't fuck in front of the kids" is one of the basic organizing principles of your ethical universe. Why is it bad for the kids? According to historian James Burke, during the Little Ice Age, European parents had sex in front of the kids all the time since they all shared one big sleeping room. Were the kids harmed as a result? Indeed, isn't that one of the time periods that Republicans always hold up as a good example of Family Values?

If you can make the case that a teen nudist camp is bad for the kids, then do so. If you can show that opposition to teen nudism is a primitive moral axiom that stands to reason, then do so. Surely your opinion is based on something fundamental, isn't it? If you can't point to a solid basis for this opinion, are you sure it's an opinion you want to have?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 07-08-2003, 10:27 AM
plnnr plnnr is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
"Were they just talking about it or were they actively being nudists (probably in a private section of the resort)?"

At this resort you have to be nude if you're on the grounds (weather permitting and except as called for by in the circumstances i.e., when cooking bacon).

As to activities: swimming, horseback riding, tennis, volleyball, canoeing, etc. etc. etc. In addition, the kids were learning about civic responsibility, organizational skills, and leadership styles. The people that participate in nudist lifestyle recognize that lots of people don't have the least bit of understanding about them so there are lots of educational programs for legislators, civic groups, etc. The kids who participate in the retreat are learning how to foster that level of understanding. Just like any other camp, except they don't have to worry about rinsing out bathsuits, doing laundry (except for towels), or getting mustard out of their new shirt.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 07-08-2003, 10:45 AM
cowgirl cowgirl is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Bill H.

Quote:
I find it very hard to believe that any but the tiniest minority of humans can completely ignore the sexual aspects of seeing another nude.
Come on. Clearly you are forgetting about aboriginal people around the world (remember those National Geographic pics of boobies?), as well as people who sauna (Eastern Europe and Scandinavia, anyone?), people who go to clothing-optional beaches (the rest of Europe), and so on, and so on. If you were to take a tally of all people who ever lived, I am sure you would find that the tiniest minority of humans are the ones who make nudity into something sexual.

Which becomes apparent in the second post

Quote:
I think it's fair to say that better than 90% of Americans would agree.
In the context of last month's thread re: the global view of Americans - or lack thereof - this is very telling. You have just equated "humans" (first post) with "Americans" (second post)

As js_a said, your view is very, very culturally defined. Just because YOU can't separate nudity from sex is no reason at all to suggest that others can't.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 07-08-2003, 10:50 AM
Bill H. Bill H. is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
js_africanus wrote
Quote:
I don't care what you think.
Well bully for you friend. Next time you don't care what I think, how about you just ignore me?
Quote:
I care about the case that you can make for your moral stance. I'm extremely skeptical that "don't fuck in front of the kids" is one of the basic organizing principles of your ethical universe. Why is it bad for the kids?
Fair enough. You feel it's ok to have sex in front of kids and encourage them to play together naked. And I don't.

As to your accusation that I have no substance to my stance, I'm afraid that is more true of your argument. I've yet to hear a compelling value for your proposed change for all of us to start having sex in front of the kids.

The propelling argument against it is simply the supposition that modesty leads to more long-lived dual parent families, and that in fact those sorts of families tend to raise children less impoverished, better educated and more responsible.

But I'm not the one to argue that point; I'm sure there are many that will love to. I'm just here to say that in my estimation, sex in front of your children and encouraging older children to play together naked is not healthy. But then as you don't care what I think, you can skip this post.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 07-08-2003, 11:31 AM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Bill H. said, "The propelling argument against it is simply the supposition that modesty leads to more long-lived dual parent families, and that in fact those sorts of families tend to raise children less impoverished, better educated and more responsible.

Says Who?

And how modest is "modest"? Are belly shirts out? Are burkas in?

How does nudity lead to divorce and poverty?

Please tell me where you get this information.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 07-08-2003, 11:35 AM
sailor sailor is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
It is all cultural. The Taliban cover their women's faces and a pretty face for them must be as sexual as nudity for us. But, in fact, I kind of agree with them: the most attractive part of a woman is the face. There is nothing in the world I like better than a pretty face and I would much sooner get tired of looking at boobies than faces. A face has beauty and expressions which the rest of the body does not have. Suppose you told me there are three different cultures: In (a) the women cover their bodies from the waist up (including face) but go naked from the waist down. In (b) the women are covered from the waist down and their faces but are naked from waist to neck and in (c) the women are covered from the neck down but they show their faces. I bet the immense majority of the men prefer (c) because the face is the prettiest part of a woman and it is the window into her soul. Nothing as attractive and sexy. And yet we allow women to go around showing their faces and men like to look at them but nothing worse than that happens. But the Taliban cannot separate the face from sexual connotations.

I guarantee you, once you have lived somewhere where nudity is normal you get over it pretty fast. European beaches are full of nudity and I do not think Europe is degenerating into a continent of child molesters.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 07-08-2003, 11:48 AM
aaslatten aaslatten is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
All these repeated references to National Geographic aborigines running around naked may prove that nudity is not inherently sexual, but they do nothing to prove the supposed advantages of the nudity lifestyle as a choice. What is the big thrill of playing volleyball naked? I just don't get it. I'd rather wear shoes, a shirt, and shorts, and I don't think that's just some "artificial convention" of society. It's technology that works. The fact that a few scattered aboriginal tribes haven't adopted this technology proves nothing.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 07-08-2003, 11:57 AM
FairyChatMom FairyChatMom is offline
I'm nice, dammit!
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Southern Merrylande
Posts: 27,161
Quote:
Originally posted by Bill H.
It is after all a perfectly natural thing to do.
Voiding one's bladder and bowels is a perfectly natural thing to do also, but I don't think I'd be sharing that experience with anyone, clothed or otherwise. Blowing one's nose is perfectly natural, but I prefer to turn away when I have to do that. Just because something is perfectly natural doesn't mean it's something everyone wants to share. I don't want to watch people having sex, nor do I want people watching me, clothed or otherwise.

I'm at a loss to understand the mistaken belief that nudity leads to sex. Maybe it will and maybe it won't. Seeing naked men doesn't drive me wild with desire, and I doubt that my nekkidity would sent men into lustful passion. Like I said - it's just skin.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 07-08-2003, 11:58 AM
jlzania jlzania is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
plnnr, I'm really curious about the horse riding activity.
Surely the kids wear pants for that?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 07-08-2003, 12:13 PM
plnnr plnnr is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Over the weekend I was at the resort. The person laying on the chair next to mine is a Doctor (I know because I've been to his office). He and his wife have been married for nearly 50 years (she was there, too, and is an attorney, IIRC). I have no idea as to their combined salaries, but by the size of the diamond ring on her finger and the size of the Mercedes Benz they pulled up in I'd wager a guess that they are neither poorly educated, impoverished, or irresponsible. Their adult children were also there, as were their grandchildren (granted they weren't completely nude - an exception was made because the tots weren't potty trained).

Damn near the whole range of humanity was there, as far as I could tell, but the breakdown was as follows:

Majority white, but several black families, a few Oriental, and a couple of Native Americans.

Mostly married and with children, but some single men and women.

I couldn't begin to tell you what the average educational level was, but most everyone was reading a newspaper or book or holding a conversation that consisted of something other than monosyllabic gibberish. I say "most" because there were a few people who were asleep and I didn't think to wake them up and say "Say something to me...I want to see if you're stupid."

I also don't know what their median family income was, but no one seemed to be starving, there were plenty of SUVs in the parking lots, and the day rate for a visit is $30. Given the choice between feeding my family and visiting the resort, I'd feed the family. I happen to have the good fortune to have the disposable income to pay that price and I have to assume that everyone else there does as well.

Based on my personal experience (and not just my personal opinion), the supposition that "modest" dual parents raise children in less impoverished conditions, with better educations and earning potential than dual parent families that are "immodest" is pure, unadulterated horse shit.

Sorry, Bill H., but you'll have to come up with something better than to argue your point. It just isn't the case.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 07-08-2003, 12:24 PM
plnnr plnnr is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
"All these repeated references to National Geographic aborigines running around naked may prove that nudity is not inherently sexual, but they do nothing to prove the supposed advantages of the nudity lifestyle as a choice."

As far as I know, no one has seriouisly advanced the proposition that a nude lifestyle has any advantages over a clothes lifestyle. It is merely a matter of personal choice. Some folks enjoy being nude in circumstances where others don't - that's about the long and short of it.

And you're right. Playing volleyball or tennis in the nude isn't particularly comfortable (too much flippy floppy for me). Neither is riding horses if they do anything other than walk. That's why you'll find me by the pool or on the beach.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 07-08-2003, 01:31 PM
Barbarian Barbarian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Anyone who thinks that nudity automatically leads to sex is just showing off their own prejudices, and lack of self control.
__________________
First thing we do is, we kill all the market researchers.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 07-08-2003, 01:50 PM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Plnnr said, "Some folks enjoy being nude in circumstances where others don't - that's about the long and short of it."

Heh. Plnnr's funny. Heh.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 07-08-2003, 03:33 PM
Hello Again Hello Again is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Just wanted to mention about horseback riding: on a horse board I frequent there was a poster who requested advice about horse riding in the nude. Everyone gave her inquiry quite serious thought but we came to the following conclusions:

1. riding naked in a saddle would at best be very uncomfortable and at worst lead to chafing and/or bruising, especially of the naughty bits and legs (riding in shorts in a saddle is also a fairly bad idea).

2. Riding bareback you would get a bunch of horse hair and horse sweat up your butt (horses shed all the time just like cats & dogs) and in other various crevices, which, we unanimously agreed, is gross.

We suggested a nude carriage ride instead.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 07-08-2003, 03:39 PM
Palo Verde Palo Verde is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Of course getting sexually excited just from seeing someone naked is sociatally conditioned.

But these kids live in this society too.

They have gown up going to nudist events. But how much of their time is spent that way? Every other weekend? I assume that during most of their time they go to Jr. High school and play on the local soccer team. Clothed.

These aren't kids who live in the Amazon and see everyone naked all the time.

They are more accustomed than most to accepting nudity as normal. But they still have lots of exposure to Brittany Spears and low-cut jeans.

Don't tell me a 14 year old boy isn't going to get excited from seing a pretty 14 year old girl naked. That it isn't a thrill for him to see.

These kids aren't kept isolated. American culture might be hing up on sex and nudity, but they are part of this culture too.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 07-08-2003, 03:43 PM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
But these kids have exposure to another culture (pardon the pun). We don't. They've probably grown up around these nekkid people all their lives. It's not like they're getting thrown in for the first time. And 14 year old boys are horny all the time anyway, so what's the big deal?
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 07-08-2003, 05:20 PM
handy handy is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Pacific Grove, Calif
Posts: 17,493
"Of course getting sexually excited just from seeing someone naked is sociatally conditioned."

We don't get any of that in our art classes where we have nude models. But one guy draws stick figures & goes out for a smoke.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-08-2003, 05:31 PM
handy handy is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Pacific Grove, Calif
Posts: 17,493
"Of course getting sexually excited just from seeing someone naked is sociatally conditioned."

We don't get any of that in our art classes where we have nude models. But one guy draws stick figures & goes out for a smoke.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-08-2003, 07:47 PM
Fuel Fuel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
A human is going to think about sex more often if it can see others' sexual organs. If the organs are covered up, it's less likely to arouse a thought.

But, just barely covering up your organs (bikini, thong, see through shirt) is just as bad and thought provoking. Almost making the organs taboo and thus sought-after.

However, clothes fill a need or gap in a humans' life. They leave some things to the imagination of others and enhance the sexual experience when they come off to reveal the organs for the first time. Clothes teach expression. Clothes keep organs away from bacteria. Clothes protect organs while doing everyday activities. Clothes make it harder for kids to have sex. Clothes make it so that our unclothed bodies are more special and we can create an intimate relationship by revealing our bodies to the ones we love. Wearing clothes fosters this special "revealing".

Natural is not always better. Clothing exists for a reason. I think society is better off with clothing. My kids will not miss out on a life where:

1) Their bodies are their own and their spouse's, that special intimacy

2) They can express themselves with different clothing.

3) They don't have to worry about their genitals while going for a hike in the woods or playing basketball/tennis with their friends.

4) They can hug the opposite sex without worrying about possibly losing their virginity!
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-08-2003, 10:04 PM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NY (Manhattan) NY USA
Posts: 16,127
Not remotely creepy. Which is not something I could say for the posts in this thread in which an astonishing number of people found something creepy about those camps. That's creepy.
__________________
Disable Similes in this Post
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-08-2003, 10:16 PM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NY (Manhattan) NY USA
Posts: 16,127
Quote:
Clothes make it harder for kids to have sex...They can hug the opposite sex without worrying about possibly losing their virginity!
Is that what a lot of this thread is about? Do you folks think it is wrong for kids to have sex? I'm talking about "with each other, of their own volition", not adults exploiting them. Do those of you who have a problem with the nude camps have a problem with kids having sex?
__________________
Disable Similes in this Post
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-09-2003, 12:56 AM
Fuel Fuel is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Quote:
Originally posted by AHunter3
Is that what a lot of this thread is about? Do you folks think it is wrong for kids to have sex? I'm talking about "with each other, of their own volition", not adults exploiting them. Do those of you who have a problem with the nude camps have a problem with kids having sex?
You think it is ok for kids to bring a life into being with them not being able to raise the life properly? You think it is ok that kids have sex and get pregnant and the baby has no father or capable mother to raise it? You think it is ok for kids to have sex with each other while not worrying about the others' diseases? Well, that's what happens when kids have sex, you know that right?

I can't believe I am asking these questions...... To answer your question, yes, it is wrong for kids to have sex. Not wrong necessarily because of moral issues, but because this practice becoming widespread would mean a crappy future for all of us.

I don't have a problem with nudist camps, I just think the young'uns are better off living a life with clothes on along with the rest of society.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-09-2003, 08:01 AM
Barbarian Barbarian is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Who said anything about having kids? AHunter3 talked about teenagers having sex, and let me tell you from personal experience that it is very possible for teenagers to have sex without having kids.

And I can also tell you that it is very possible for teenagers to look at other attractive teenagers naked and not get sexually aroused!

Just because you've got hangups doesn't mean you can't unlearn your attitudes about sexuality and clothing.

Nude isn't lewd.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 07-09-2003, 08:17 AM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Fuel, hugging is NOT how babies are made. You have to do "other" stuff. No teenager is going to get knocked up over a hug. Believe me. You should probably pass that information on to the kids, if you happen to think of it.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 07-09-2003, 09:49 AM
plnnr plnnr is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
We seem to have gotten (is that really a word? I can never decide) a little far afield, but I'll pass along my observations (again, these are observations from being around people who are devoted to the nudist lifestyle).

1. The parents I've met tend to be well educated and they tend to have very open lines of communication with their kids. One of the tenents of the nudist philosophy is body awareness and concern for one's health. As such, kids know alot about their body, the body systems, and bodily functions from an early age.

2. Nudist kids see people naked all the time. It isn't a big deal with them; in fact, it is no deal. Parents realize that as these kids hit puberty they may tend to feel more awkward about their changing bodies and I"ve never known a parent to push a child to continue to go nude that was uncomfortable. It just isn't done. You have to be comfortable in your skin, and if you're not that's OK.

3. The degree to which kids participate varies. Some families are nude all the time at home and dress only for going out of the home (school, sports, etc.). Others are only nude on weekends when visiting camps, resorts, beaches, etc. It varies from family to family.

4. I'm reasonably sure 14-year old nudist boys get erections. Big deal. Nudists recognize that puberty is puberty. The clothing or lack there of has nothing to do with it.

As I've tried over and over again to stress in these types of thread, being nude around a bunch of other people who are nude isn't particularly erotic if it isn't in an erotic context. The folks you see at a nudist resort are exactly the same type of people you would see in any other place. There is no difference. None. Well, there is one difference...they don't have clothes on. The air isn't sexually charged with lust and pheromes. People aren't having sex on the lawn. Barry White isn't playing on the stereo while people pair off for some sort of illicit activity. They're just everyday, ordinary, run of the mill people doing everyday, ordinary, run of the mill stuff without their clothes on. That's it. Period.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 07-09-2003, 11:06 AM
NajaNivea NajaNivea is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Quote:
Originally posted by Fuel
4) They can hug the opposite sex without worrying about possibly losing their virginity!
Fuel, honey, did you maybe miss a day in sex ed? Or perhaps your method of hugging friends and casual acquaintances of the opposite sex differs from mine...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@chicagoreader.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2013 Sun-Times Media, LLC.