Melin maligned? Jill jilted?

[Satan]

Seems like this has since become a "Great Debate" to me...

The only moderator I ever had a quarrel with was anal Nick who complained that my closing signature constituted a "commercial site." Putting me in with spammers was pretty odd IMHO, though I relnted slightly by changing the URL slightly.

In any event, I feel that everyone is well-intentioned by siding on Melin's side. The gut-reaction of a person censored or fired for having an opinion is an easy cause to take up for. But just as I find the KKK repugnant and understand why people don't want them to exist, I cannot take that view because the laws that allow them to exist and even march down an Alabama street are the same laws I cherish.

Anyway, I got the inside story from people I trust. In a nutshell:

1) Two moderators get into a public debate, something this site is for.

2) The debate crosses over from factual debate to peronal attacks, something this site is against.

3) Another moderator asked the two debaters to cease and desist personal arguments in public.

4) One arguer says, okay.

5) The other arguer says, well she started it, I'm just defending myself, I'll quit if I can't get my way...

6) The head honcho gets involved and makes it a policy against staffers fighting in public.

7) One moderator says, sure, sorry.

8) Another moderator says she can't do that and fights - this time with the head honcho.

9) The head honcho says, well, if you can't play by the rules, remember that thing you said about quitting?

I could care less about the individual egos and petty gripes. Looking at the facts without names above (even though the names are obvious, please amuse me), the following is obvious:

1) A public fight amongst representatives of you does not look good, no matter whom is right.

2) When asked to stop by a semi-authority figure, if one person says okay and the other does not, which one comes off as a stubborn trouble-maker?

3) When a rule is put in place by the main authority figure, which one person comes off as agreeable and which one as beligerant?

In a nutshell, Melin's actions backed everyone into an uncomfortable corner.

In the corner, maybe everyone did not do the right things - but by this I mean the deleting of posts and the smug attitudes of some of the players in this little game, not the firing. And while you might not be able to excuse these wrongs, you can understand why they were made and appreciate attempts at righting them.

And the fact remains that a boss can make any rules he wishes. If you don't agree to them, you have the right to not answer to the boss anymore. And if those rules are applied uniformly and fairly (which I think they were), everyone else has a choice to make. Obviously, there are other moderators who can live with these rules. Melin could not.

So they fired her. Their right. Deal with it.

It is also Melin's right to complain about how she was treated unfairly, even if she was given every chance to either:

a) Stop the arguing
b) Take the arguing private
c) Agree to not argue in public

She did none of the above, and I have no sympathy whether she indeed resigned or was fired.

I do not like that she was censored after the fact (though that is within the administrators rights, I would choose to not frequent the place if it was run like that - my choice!), but they seem to be righting that wrong and are allowing her to speak.

As for all of you, as I said, I can totally understand you naturally feeling empathy for Melin and assuming she was an innocent victim whose crimes were only being opinionated. And the actions of the honchos - deleting messages ("the evidence" for the more conspiracy-minded mongst us) looked like Nixon erasing parts of tapes.

But stop thinking about how it looked and think about how it is.

If Melin's future opining is removed from this board, I will change my mind!

But I think (and hope) that the earlier transgressions were errors which are being corrected and won't happen again.

Folks, stop trying to be so righteous and start thinking about what is right instead!

------------------
Brian O'Neill
CMC International Records
rockuniverse.com/cmc/cmc.html

ICQ 35294890
AIM Scrabble1
Yahoo Messenger Brian_ONeill

[VegForLife]

Folks, stop trying to be so righteous and start thinking about what is right instead!

Interesting words, coming from Satan. Where's ARG220 when you need him?

Rich

[Satan]

How my nickname fucking matters is beyond me...

[MrKnowItAll]

Now, Satan, if you use the name of the main bad guy of all time, you can expect a little ribbing. No need to resort to profanity.

However, I for one agree with your OP. People seem to think that all rights apply to everyone in every situation. This cannot be the case. The administration of any endeavor has the right to require its' subordinates to behave in whatever manner it sees fit, as long as it doesn't break any laws. The subordinates, by agreeing to be subordinates, agree to these infringements. Otherwise, they have the option of leaving.

Thus, companies can (and do) put video cameras in restrooms and dressing rooms on company property. They can (and do) require their employees to be at the place of business doing the company's work. They can (and do) expect subordinates to behave in a professional manner when doing the company's work.

Now I don't know how these moderator things work. Do they get paid for this, or don't they? I don't think it matters. An agreement has been made and should be maintained.

------------------
Carpe hoc!

[VegForLife]

Satan, you know, of course, that I was kidding. . .

Rich

[Eutychus]

Well, there is the weekly supply of hookers, but I'm not supposed to say anything about that.

Oops ...



------------------
Saint Eutychus
www.disneyshorts.org

[MrKnowItAll]

Really, E55? Hmmm...

Is there a dental plan?

[David B]

Nope, no pay. We do it simply for the love and adoration we get.

[Nickrz]

The only moderator I ever had a quarrel with was anal Nick who complained that my closing signature constituted a "commercial site." Putting me in with spammers was pretty odd IMHO, though I relnted slightly by changing the URL slightly.

If the original url was not linked to a commercial site, as you so ardently insist, why did you change it? I wonder if the words "BUY CD'S!" on the front page had anything to do with that decision.

You might add that I changed my "ruling" to a request that you remove the url and promised not to edit it or comment on it again should you see fit to continue using it in your SIG. But no, that might make me a little more human and a little less anal, so why mention that?

I kept the matter private, but now that it's in the public eye by your own hand, I will comment. Having an active url to a commercial website in your signature line is like plastering advertising banners on your tuxedo and then insisting on standing up at your best friend's wedding wearing it. Hell, any url in a sig line is unsightly, for that matter. Why do you insist people who don't need to look at it do so, day after day? Why do you think the UBB software provides the profile window right above your posts?

And, perhaps more importantly, why do you think no one else but you is doing it?

When the spammers creep onto the board and start arguing their urls are not commercial, and all urls in sig lines are banned by the oh-so-compulsive powers that be, just remember you used to have a free advertising permit courtesy of your anal GQ Mod.
---------
Nickrz

[According to Pliny]

I don't have any problem with the firing. It was the rapid-fire deletions of half a dozen threads and what looked for all the world like a cover-up, that has lowered my respect for this site and the people that run it.

I think Ed has given something as close to an apology as he's capable of over in the Pit. Unfortuanately it was couched in all sorts of rationalizations and 12 hours too late. His cavalier additude toward the opinions of this board's users has also left me disappointed.

[Falcon]

I'm with you, Papabear. I don't think Melin should have been fired, but now that it's done.... < shrug > However, the attitude towards all of us afterwards was what really pissed me off. I know this isn't a democracy, folks. However, there wouldn't *be* a MB if we all weren't here. JMO.


------------------
"And the knowlege that they fear is a weapon to be used against them."
-Neil Peart, RUSH, "The Weapon"

[Satan]

Nick:

A lot of people have their home pages linked in the signature file, Nick. I don't have a personal page (there are quite enough pages of "Look at my little doggie!" already) so I use my job's site instead. Since I spend far more time at work than at home anyway, it's the same thing...

As for the "Buy CD's" you mention, it is a link listed there, big whoop. Even if someone is to click on my link below, they don't have to click to the commercial link, and just see the informational part of the site - which is almost ALL of it!

Oh, and I changed the URL slightly to be a good boy and meet you half way even though I didn't think I was wrong. I was trying to be considerate since, ultimately, I am a guest here.

If you'd like, I'll change it back.

Veg:

Sorry I appeared thin-skinned... I put a lot of thought and effort into the post and having the first response be so glib, I was annoyed... My bad!

Falcon & Papabear:

I can see you agree with me for the most part. The attitude that you felt from Ed disheartened me as well, but not enough to not lay the blame where it belongs, and certainly not enough to make me not come here again.

That is a decision everyone has to make on their own. There is no right or wrong...

[DrEvil]

I am reminded of a gem of a line from a dog of a play. In the musical (?) 1776, there's a scene where the congress is voting on whether to debate independence (some things never change). The drunk representative from (I think) delaware comes back from the can and it turns out he has the deciding vote on whether to discuss the issue. His comment:

"I've never heard of anything so dangerous you can't even TALK about it. Hell yes, I'll vote to debate it!"

I wish that attitude were more prevalent here. While the reprehensible disrespect the staff here (particularly Ed Z) showed for the "users" pissed me off, what I find worse than anything was the Orwellian deletion of the entire thread on "minorities" that started it all. This may not be a democracy, and maybe we're not going to "take a vote" on it, but I damned well am not going to patronize an establishment that treats me like a child unable to reason or decide for myself.

Regardless of the actuality of the situation, that was wrong. Hell (no pun intended), Satan's assessment may well be right, but we'll never know for sure, because the administrators removed the one piece of information that would genuinely assist anyone in forming an informed opinion about it.

Shame on you Ed. Shame on you Nick, E55, and every other moderator who is tacitly supporting this by their continued participation, silence and/or support. I don't care if Melin was the biggest bitch in existence and roundly deserved to be booted. You handled it in the worst, most disrespectful way possible.

[According to Pliny]

FTR, Doc: Stephen Hopkins from Rhode Island.

[Powers]

Am I the only one who hasn't a clue what's going on here?


Powers

[StrTrkr777]

Here I go agreeing with Satan again, boy my parents sure would hate to see that line.

I do not agree with some of the apparent attitudes, but I also realize that sometimes things come off sounding bad when written.

Melin is an adult and should expect to be treated like one. Maybe if Ed had said "Order in the Court, You will both be found in Contempt if you continue this behavior", Melin would have understood and refrained.

Anyway, what is done is done. Let's move on. Let's do the job we were elected to do. Opps sorry, got into the Clinton lines.

Jeffery

[Drain Bead]

For a rather amusing view into how the other half lives, check out the thread on this topic in About This Message Board. I know that board doesn't get much traffic, so I figured I'd plug that thread here.

[Lew]

I'm jumping in here..trying to get caught up on everything. As far as I can tell, way too many people are forming opinions on incorrect knowledge (through no ones fault by Ed's, evidently--I haven't read everything yet)
FTR: The portions of the threads I have read are extremely butchered and out of context. I have a thread started that will allow you to request the entire thing by email from me.
Ed may have the right to make an administrative decision, but he has the responsibility to make an informed and unbiased one. After reading his explanation in GD, I do not believe this was done. He claims to have read all and given it serious thought...As far as I can tell, this decision was made in no more than 24 hours of Jill's original complaint. He seriously misrepresented (to you) the comments they made, which should not have been tossed out to you out of context.
I have lots more to catch up on so check my remarks in GD and my email thread.