REPOST: "Fired for being politically incorrect"

Earlier this evening I had all instances of Melin’s post “Fired for being politically incorrect” pulled. On reflection, I should have left it up in the Pit, so I’m reposting.

Concerning the substance of Melin’s post, I’ll just say that the issue is not political correctness, but rather getting into a public dispute with another board moderator. I have had a talk with the other moderator and do not expect this to happen again.

Here’s Melin’s post:


I am posting this here as well as in other forums because I know not everyone reads every forum, and I’d like for as many of the Teeming Millions to see this as possible.
Political "in"correctness has led to me being fired as moderator for MPSIMS at the Straight Dope. I will be posting this message in all of the related boards (the old board, the SDMB2, and the newsgroup), since I am sure that it will be deleted from this board as soon as anyone with the power to delete sees it, just as the thread which gave rise to it has been deleted without comment.

Those who have known me for the last year or so, on the old board and on this board, know that I have strong feelings that race and ethnicity are matters which should not govern our daily affairs or our government’s interaction with us, or much else. Individuals should be evaluated as individuals on their own merits, regardless of race or ancestry. I have argued against and will continue to argue against those who make generalizations about groups based upon the color of skin, rather than evaluating people based on their own merits.

Over the last few days a debate developed on the General Questions Board, on a thread called “minorities.” Don’t look for it – it’s been deleted. Fortunately, before it was deleted, I saved all of the relevant postings. On that thread I made the comment – as I have made elsewhere – that it is my belief (and my practice, and my instructions to my children) that in filling out forms that ask for nationality and race, the only answers that should be given are “American” (or whatever one’s citizenship happens to be) and “Human.” It is my belief, stated many times, that we would do better to focus on our commonalities rather than our differences.

Another board moderator is employed in public health. She and I have disagreed about this issue of forms for a long time, and in our discussion this time she pointed out that identification of race can be relevant for public health purposes, for disease tracking, etc. This was a point I hadn’t considered, and I acknowledged that this was a legitimate use for the information, and that I would modify my practices accordingly when filling out forms that were to be used for such a purpose. When other posters agreed with my basic philosophy about forms, however, this moderator told them that they just “didn’t get it.” Anyone who disagreed with her position was told that “white people” (her words) have the “luxury” to ignore or not “to worry about racial/cultural issues” (her words), because they are white and can disappear into the mainstream. That comment was repeated at least three times.

I ignored this comment the first or second time it was made, but I finally responded to it, asserting that such a negative comment about a group of people based solely upon their skin color was racist, arrogant garbage. Racial issues affect every person in this country, regardless of race, and one’s skin color does not give one the “luxury” not to worry about those issues. I ran the post by the moderator of General Questions before I posted it, and got no objection to it.

Based on my response I was subjected to personal attacks as being hostile, defensive, throwing a hissy fit, etc. In an off-board conversation I offered to apologize for my remarks if she would apologize for hers, and she refused. She further took the matter to Ed Zotti, who has fired me as moderator because I would not back down from my assertion that as both a moral person and a moderator I should not let comments which slur a group of people based on their skin color – whatever color that skin might be – go unchallenged. I was told that this was not “moderator temperment,” particularly because there was another moderator involved. It is now my perception that it is apparently okay to publicly make statements based on skin color if one is a moderator, but it is not okay to publicly challenge those statements if one is a moderator.

I note that was not the only poster who was offended by the remarks made by the moderator. Other posters challenged her on that statement, from stating that it “ruffled their feathers” to that it made them “VERY ANGRY.” One of those posters cited a history of working against bigotry and for civil rights. My own extended family is multiracial; I have worked for minority causes and marched in more a few protests, and my ex-Jesuit husband has been shot at at least once by an unhappy grower for daring to stand up for the rights of migrant farmworkers in North Carolina. Nevertheless, this moderator felt that she could summarily dismiss my opinions and the opinions of other posters – without knowing anything about us except her assumptions regarding our skin color – with the comment that “white people” have the luxury to ignore racial issues.

In today’s politically correct world it is not fashionable to bash gays, and so on the “Gay Pride - WTF” thread in the Pit another moderator can call a member poster a homophobe, a “jerkbag,” and a “bigot” and, a month later, still be moderating. Indeed, when a member suggested to that moderator that he should stay out of the discussion, a board administrator came in to defend him. It is very fashionable, and politically correct, however, to bash whites – or to minimize their sincerity or their understanding – when whites make statements on racial issues that those who believe their own racial “credentials” are more sympathetic do not agree with.

And so the person who made the sweeping generalization about a group of people based upon the color of their skin will remain here to moderate among you, and the person who challenged that sweeping generalization as being an arrogant and racist comment will not.

I want to thank the Teeming Millions – and especially my beloved MPSIMSers – for all the fun and support, for the EMs and the IMs that have come with being a Board Moderator, as you have asked questions or sought assistance or shared ideas. Your new MPSIMS moderator, Eutychus (Pat) is a great guy who was a moderator on the old AOL board too (we could never figure what to call him – the lone male in the midst of all those Board Goddesses! ) My thanks to to the other Board Moderators – except perhaps one – for the fun and support in the past.

-Melin
Former Board Goddess

Jeeze, Ed. I liked it better when it looked like you were trying to cover something up. You’ve just sucked all the intrigue out of the situation!

In all seriousness, I’m curious about that too – if two moderators were involved in a dispute, why was only one of them fired? Compared to some of the stuff found here in the Pit, the “minorities” thread was tame – and unoffensive. If one person (moderator or not) is offended by another, they can settle it between them – here in the Pit, by e-mail, or by guns at ten paces if they want. It’s the firing people part that I’m not getting.

It’s been my opinion that moderators should not get involved in ANY discussion whatsoever on the board that they moderate, period. Quietly monitoring for abuses and closing down super-long threads; that’s about the extent of what it should mean to be a moderator: a lurker with power.

I don’t post alot, but I’m read almost all of the threads. If you are going to fire one moderator, then fire the other one. When I punish my children for fighting, I don’t send one to their room but let the other one keep playing.

Good point, RTA. However, on the thread in question, neither person involved in this dispute was the moderator of GQ. Papabear did have a good point - this does lend a hand to the argument for moderators to post comments to a thread under a different screen name.

And jodih, I’ve made the same points you did. Compared to some of the fights that have occurred on this board, that thread was nothing!


“And the knowlege that they fear is a weapon to be used against them.”
-Neil Peart, RUSH, “The Weapon”

Me

I have learned in a friendly discussion with the GQ moderator that he does not remember this the way I do.

So . . . I want to apologize to Nickrz for giving the mistaken impression that he had in any way “approved” my offending post before it was posted. He did not.

-Melin

What’s wrong with a public debate between moderators? Why is it different than a debate between two members? Moderators are human too, and we all understand that; no one expects them to be perfectly neutral. As long as they’re not abusing their power and deleting each other’s posts or something, what’s the harm?


“Eppur, si muove!” - Galileo Galilei

What a load of crap. Melin is, 'scuse me, WAS the moderator for MPSIMS… and as the Minorities thread was not in that forum, she was not acting as a moderator in her postings. It’s completely ridiculous, not to mention plain wrong, to have her removed as a moderator of an entirely different forum. She did a wonderful job in MPSIMS, this was completely uncalled for. Nickrz, as the moderator of GQ, was fully within his rights to delete or edit Melin’s posts, but there is absolutely no reason to strip her of her well-deserved status. If this is the way it’s done, then I recommend that Nickrz be fired for posting things like (paraphrasing) “Get the fuck out!” and the like in BBQ threads. Doesn’t make sense does it? Because Nickrz still does a good job of moderating GQ. Melin’s opinions and postings were not based on junk… they were well thought out, and intelligently presented. So, Jill and Nickrz didn’t agree with her. Too damn bad. She didn’t agree with them either and I don’t see anything about them being ousted. I truly am stunned that this has happened. I thought the purpose of the Straight Dope was to fight ignorance, not perpetuate it.

Guess I’ve finally got to post on this great message board.

I’ve been lurking here since literally day one. I wasn’t on AOL, so wasn’t involved in those boards, but read the weekly columns religiously. I read a lot of message boards, and post to a few on a regular basis (I’m one of the “old regulars” on snopes).

I have to agree that the censorship shown here is way out of line. I don’t always agree with Melin, but her views are just as valid as anyone elses. If you want to “draw the line” between moderator and regular poster, then just about everyone here should be fired.

Thank you for re-posting this message so others can follow this saga. Remember the credo of the Straight Dope that you are “Fighting Ignorance”… Let’s continue to do so here even if it goes against the agenda of another moderator.

Yeah… I know I’m a Junior Member… respond and free me!!!

-Spud

ChrisCTP -

::Applause:::

My thoughts exactly.

Well, I’ve gotta say – this whole thing was clearly VERY badly handled. I didn’t frequent the “minorities” thread, so I don’t know the specifics of the debate but it certainly seems unfair that only one of the offending moderators was fired. Perhaps a better way of handling this would have been to clarify the rules against moderator debate – rules, BTW, that don’t seem to have been enforced previously. Since the firing was public (or at least has become so), I think the powers that be ought to publicly defend the reason to fire Melin retain the other moderator. Otherwise this may all fester and ruin what has been a great board and a nifty on-line community.


Jess

Full of 'satiable curtiosity

Sheesh. In my previous post “publicly defend the reason to fire Melin” should read “publicly defend the decision to fire Melin.”

Jess (who was trying to talk and type at the same time)

Absolutely! I haven’t been here that long but I never thought I would have witnessed something so unjust on this forum.

I’ve seen other moderators post some really rude things. Why weren’t they forcibly removed for the moderatorship?

The whole thing seems absurd.

I go away for a few days and what happens? You all go insane on me. I thought I was dealing with adults on these boards, for the most part, at least. Now I find petty, pig-ignorant behavior running rampant among moderators and administrators alike. Is it the heat?

Melin, I thought you were a delightful moderator of MPSIMS and I shall miss you.

Nickrz, you weasel - get a backbone. If things were going awry on YOUR board, why didn’t YOU handle it? And how about standing up for Melin? I seem to remember a thread, since deleted, originally posted by C#3 when he was threatened with expulsion - you were quite clear about your views on censorship then, before you became a moderator and tasted power for the first time.

You all disappoint me greatly.

Well, since my previous post of support got deleted along with Melin’s original post, I’ll repeat it.

Melin, this is a drag. I’m very sorry to hear it happened and I think you are owed a huge apology.

Hey, Ed - Would you care to give us your story of what happened here? ‘Cause if it happened the way Melin says then you come out lookin’ real bad here.


For what it’s worth; I have never threatened anyone with expulsion, nor have I ever deleted any thread (much less one of C3’s).

I have always been quite clear on my views on censorship. I’m dead-set against it. If someone has a different view of what I’ve said on that subject, I invite them to search my archives and refresh their memory.

I think it’s rather amusing that since the original brouhaha ocurred in GQ, many people assume I was directly involved. I was not.

Melin has already explained, to my satisfaction, the misunderstanding that lead to my being dragged into her post. My role was a tangential and completely inconsequential one, but I suppose you are all free to imagine anything you like.

If you think I am trying to divorce myself from this issue, you are entirely correct.
I strove mightily to stay out of it from the get-go, but was found guilty on the basis of my moderation of the forum where this unseemly tragedy took place.

My job here is to serve and protect the interests of The Straight Dope Message board,
and in that I will brook no quarter. I stand behind Ed and Tuba and the rest of The Straight Dope staff not because of blind loyalty or some sort of evil cabal - but because I know the facts of the matter.

For your information, C3, since you rarely bother to be in possession of a fact before you open your big goddamned mouth, JillGat and Melin are both white. And they both have multiracial families.

Melin, I would not have had this happen to you. I’ve always felt that you (and, indeed, the rest of the moderators both here and on the AOL SDMB) were always fair. And I have, obviously, been able to disagree with you publicly without repercussion.

I think the whole thing could have been largely avoided if Jill had said, “The only people who have the luxury of ignoring race as a factor also happen to be white.” It’s a small but subtle difference, and a sentiment with which I agree.

Not having read the original minorities thread, I’m not going to venture an opinion on the actions that have been taken. However, I have read some people’s suggestion that board moderators should have a moderator screen name and a seperate non-moderator screen name. In my opinion, that’s a bad idea. I can foresee the possibility that people could be having problems with moderators and not realize it. You could get into an argument with Mike King and then find your posts being deleted by moderator Gnik Ekim.

Folks, bottom line:

The reality of our society is that it is acceptable to talk about racism against non-whites. However, open your mouth about racism against whites – even to the extent of arguing that it is possible (and many will shout you down claiming it is not) – and you have a problem!

It all boils down to Melin standing up and pointing out that someone was being racist regarding whites, and she got sacked for it, because that’s not an “acceptable” view.

Semantics and “he said, she said” debates aside, that’s what happened.

I expected better from TSD. I didn’t realize they too were an arm of the Ministry of Information…