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  #1  
Old 12-15-2003, 04:24 PM
Pablito Pablito is offline
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She said she's gay, but let's go out anyway?!

I met this fantastic woman the other day at a retreat. We spent several hours talking over a few days and seemed to hit it off great.
I asked if I could call her, she said yes. So I did.
That's when she told me that she hasn't dated any men since her divorce, but has dated 'other people'. She'd like it to be otherwise, but feels like things work better for her with women. Then she starts talking about how she feels like it shouldn't matter to her what 'parts' a person has but that it seems to make a difference. But let's go out anyway.
So we went to the movies, along with our respective kids. Again, great conversation and fun was had (though I avoided making any moves--kids were present!).
At one point during our after-the-movie chat, I mentioned the kinsey scale to her, explained it, and asked where she thought she stood, but kids interrupted her from answering this important question, but she did say she has a co-worker she talks with often about her ongoing uncertainty about her sexuality.
When I asked if she wanted to go out again, she said yes.
I said, "with the kids?" She nodded.
I said, "just the two of us?" She said yes.

Any oddsmakers out there want to lay bets on whether a relationship that starts like this has any chance of working out?
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  #2  
Old 12-15-2003, 04:48 PM
Chastain86 Chastain86 is offline
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1. Watch Chasing Amy
2. Realize the events of this film will never happen to you
3. Get over romantic feelings for this person


Either be friends with this woman, or don't, but I wouldn't push it any further. Someone that obviously confused will hurt you both in the long run.
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  #3  
Old 12-15-2003, 05:06 PM
Sionach Sionach is offline
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This probably isn't what you want to hear, and I'm sorry, but don't get your hopes up. Be friends with this woman if you can, but don't expect or desire anything more. I have travelled this road, and it is a paaaainful one to try to be romantically involved with someone who is confused about their sexuality. If she were even in a place where she identified as bi and wanted an open relationship, it would be less difficult for you and her in the long run, and might actually have a chance of working (assuming you were comfortable with an open relationship).

With any other issue, it'd be something you could most likely work out as a couple, but sexuality is something you can't help her figure out. Your own wants and needs are always going to be tied up in any help you try to give her, and while you may "convince" her for a time that she's straight, it isn't likely to last until she figures it out for herself, in her own time (assuming she decides she is straight).

If you do end up involved with this woman on a romantic level, be prepared for her to pingpong back and forth, perhaps play a push-me-pull-you sort of "game" with you (not a deliberate game, just the confusion of her own emotions), and generally confuse the hell out of you for the duration of the relationship. Until she is completely comfortable with and certain of her sexuality, it isn't very likely any romantic relationship with either sex will last long with her.
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  #4  
Old 12-15-2003, 05:33 PM
joemama24_98 joemama24_98 is offline
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I'd say give it a shot - you have nothing to lose. At least get a better feel for the situation. Determine if she is capable to committing to the right person, and if you are that person.
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  #5  
Old 12-15-2003, 06:18 PM
Hugh Jass Hugh Jass is offline
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I'm in the middle of a somewhat similar situation. Met a girl. She's real nice. She seemed to like me too. She's flirty and touchy. But she also says she only wants to date women right now. She identifies as bisexual, but will sit on my lap or hold my hand. I keep wanting to keep my distance emotionally, but she drags me back.

I think it would be fair of you to ask for an honest discussion regarding her sexual identity and where you come into play. It doesn't sound like she is yanking your chain, but it is reasonable for you to be confused, and she should help you in that respect.
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  #6  
Old 12-15-2003, 06:34 PM
don't ask don't ask is online now
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I used to live across the road from 2 lesbians that I worked with. I spent a lot of time hanging out with them (they had better music and better food and better dope). I went out with each of them at various times but nothing ever came of it. Was all good youthful fun.
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  #7  
Old 12-15-2003, 09:17 PM
Shakes Shakes is online now
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This lady is certainly confused and doesn't know what she wants. So to help her out you have to TELL her what she wants and REMIND her that she prefers penis over vagina.
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  #8  
Old 12-15-2003, 09:23 PM
Maxxxie Maxxxie is offline
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SHAKES, please tell me that's a lame attempt at humour.

Max.
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  #9  
Old 12-15-2003, 10:43 PM
Pablito Pablito is offline
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Thanks for some (mostly) interesting responses so far. I'm not so worried about being hurt myself. I'm a big boy and have already been done that road before. I think I'm keeping my eyes open about everything, the unlikeliness of her deciding she could really be comfortable again in a hetero relationship, etc. Still, I'm interested enough in her that I can't help but to pursue this a bit and see how things develop. Does that sound so crazy to everyone?

One interesting aspect is that we've both managed to be extremely open with one another about our previous relationships, problems, and so on, all without having had any physical intimacy or even any high probability of that in our future. I was surprised at some of the details of our sexual histories we were sharing by telephone tonight--some things I've never told anyone and things she told me that seemed remarkably open and candid considering how briefly we've known each other.
It's nice to be able to share so much with someone and feel comfortable doing it.
I'm curious to see how/if this relationship develops, whether as friends or something else. I guess I figure the worst thing that could happen would be if she decided we should have sex and I ended up falling for her, without any reciprocation. But I think my broken-heart immunity shots are still up to date.
Then again, the worst thing would be for her to fool herself and us to become a couple and then for her to realize she'd made an enormous mistake.
(feel free to refrain from dreaming up even worse 'worst-case scenarios': I'm sure I could expand this list without any effort)
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  #10  
Old 12-15-2003, 10:53 PM
John Carter of Mars John Carter of Mars is offline
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Maybe you'll be the steady influence, the rock that gets her through this period of confusion, and she'll just decide that her sexual orientation for the rest of her life is YOU!

Hey, why not? It's happened other times, other people. She can't be too much one way on the Kinsey scale, or there wouldn't be an ex-husband and children.

Good luck!
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  #11  
Old 12-15-2003, 11:01 PM
Pablito Pablito is offline
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Now you're talking!
And she volunteered tonight that she's about a 4 or 5 (scale of 0-6) but sexuality is too complicated to reduce to a simple number.
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2003, 11:31 PM
Shakes Shakes is online now
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Maxxxie, read this from the OP:

Quote:
That's when she told me that she hasn't dated any men since her divorce, but has dated 'other people'. She'd like it to be otherwise, but feels like things work better for her with women.

This right here tells me that something happened with a man that she doesn't want to happen again. So out of fear, she stays away from men and settles for women. Personally, I don't believe living in fear is anyway to live your life.

So no, I wasn't kidding.

However, I will rephrase it in a more "PC" term just so people don't get confused.

Pablito, This lady has obviously had some bad experieces with men. Take her out and show her how real men behave and also how nice it can be. If you play your cards right I think she'll REMEMBER how romance CAN be between a man and a woman; thus she will overcome her fears and the profits will be ten fold for you both.


God, I hate pc.
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  #13  
Old 12-16-2003, 12:34 AM
vasyachkin vasyachkin is offline
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one thing i dont understand, wtf are kids doing there ?
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  #14  
Old 12-16-2003, 01:48 AM
DreadCthulhu DreadCthulhu is offline
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Well, if she is hesitant just get her drunk, and then see how see feels. Alcohol can solve just about any problem.
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  #15  
Old 12-16-2003, 02:32 AM
jackelope jackelope is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Carter of Mars
Maybe you'll be the steady influence, the rock that gets her through this period of confusion, and she'll just decide that her sexual orientation for the rest of her life is YOU!
Best advice I've seen so far. She's mixed up because she doesn't know what she wants. Don't pressure her for sex (duh); just stick around and be a positive presence in her life, and wait for her to see you as the fantastic person you are.

It may take time; she's obviously been hurt bad, and it's not easy to distinguish yourself from the muddled masses of jerks out there. But the one thing that will definitively separate you from them is persistence; stick with it, if you're serious.
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  #16  
Old 12-16-2003, 05:00 AM
Siege Siege is offline
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Pablito, if I may ask, how long has she been divorced, and what kind of a divorce was it? If it happened fairly recently, and her exhusband was cruel or abusive, I would think that could push her away from wanting to get close to men and add to her confusion. After all, since she can't marry a woman as things stand now, a woman can't hurt her the way her exhusband did.

There have been times in my life when I honestly didn't know what I wanted from a relationship, or even if I wanted one, but I have enjoyed friendship and company. I've also had friendship blossom into love. From what you've posted, she hasn't called herself "gay" and she sounds at most bisexual to me, but I'm not sure how much time most people spend thinking about their homosexuality.

You're doing fine, from what I've seen. Good luck!
CJ
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2003, 06:07 AM
UncleBill UncleBill is offline
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I know of "lesbians" who are in very strong heterosexual relationships now. They can love the PERSON sometimes, irregardless of gender. Ask her what makes her feel uncomfortable dating men, or why women are better. She may have needed female companionship to get her through post divorce trauma time.
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2003, 07:18 AM
TwistofFate TwistofFate is offline
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Quote:
This right here tells me that something happened with a man that she doesn't want to happen again. So out of fear, she stays away from men and settles for women. Personally, I don't believe living in fear is anyway to live your life.
Or perhaps she realised that she was attracted to women, told her husband, and he couldn't handle that? Living with a woman who at any point could turn to him and say that she was wrong about her sexuality? perhaps they left on good terms. Perhaps she's been only dating women since the divorce to get some experience for herself so that she can decide what her sexuality is?

Why is the default assumption that a divorced man is a wifebeater?
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  #19  
Old 12-16-2003, 07:29 AM
Evil Captor Evil Captor is offline
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I think you're barking up the wrong bush, fella. Try and develop a good emotional rapport with a woman who's attracted to men. Should be more rewarding.
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2003, 08:15 AM
hypnoboth hypnoboth is offline
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I think you should do whatever you want as long as you are clear in your own mind that this is not your only, or even your major, emotional attachment. She is your friend. Go out with her. Go out with others. Have fun. Don't make a big drama out of it. Be honest. Be there for her, as you would be for any friend. Don't get hung up on it.

In other words, be gentle with yourself, and with her.
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  #21  
Old 12-16-2003, 10:47 AM
moodtobestewed moodtobestewed is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sionach
If you do end up involved with this woman on a romantic level, be prepared for her to pingpong back and forth, perhaps play a push-me-pull-you sort of "game" with you (not a deliberate game, just the confusion of her own emotions), and generally confuse the hell out of you for the duration of the relationship.
Yeah, like this never happens when dating a straight woman.

I say go for it. Sounds like for all her protestations she's giving you the green light. Sure, it may turn into a veritable trainwreck of a dating experience, but I'm not sure the odds of that occurring are that much different from a more traditional situation. The "issues" might be different, but it's never really the "issues" anyway but how they are resolved, or how the two of you deal with irresolvable ones.
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  #22  
Old 12-16-2003, 11:42 AM
Pablito Pablito is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Siege
Pablito, if I may ask, how long has she been divorced, and what kind of a divorce was it? If it happened fairly recently, and her exhusband was cruel or abusive, I would think that could push her away from wanting to get close to men and add to her confusion. After all, since she can't marry a woman as things stand now, a woman can't hurt her the way her exhusband did.
Actually, she was married to the same man twice, first time for something like 6 years, then a second time for less than a year. I don't think he was physically abusive to her; mainly she cited his being critical of her.
And her attraction to women is not a new thing--she said she's been aware of some feelings like that since being a teenager but only since divorce has acted on those at all, answering questions she's always had about what it would be like (to be with a woman). Given that information, I'm disinclined to think her sexuality issues result from a bad/abusive marriage. It seems more likely that she's bi or even fully lesbian, but at least she's still leaving the door open and isn't resolved on it.

And thanks to moodtobestewed and hypnoboth and others for your especially sound and sane thoughts, and to everyone else who has responded.
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  #23  
Old 12-16-2003, 12:16 PM
RickJay RickJay is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jackelope
Best advice I've seen so far. She's mixed up because she doesn't know what she wants. Don't pressure her for sex (duh); just stick around and be a positive presence in her life, and wait for her to see you as the fantastic person you are.

It may take time; she's obviously been hurt bad, and it's not easy to distinguish yourself from the muddled masses of jerks out there. But the one thing that will definitively separate you from them is persistence; stick with it, if you're serious.
What does that accomplish, exactly? The OP isn't asking if he can or should be friends with this person, he's asking if there's a chance for romance.

"If I'm just nice to her for a really long time she will see what a wonderful guy I am and romance will blossom" is a strategy sure to fail 99 times out of 100, even when the lady isn't confused about her sexuality. It's the strategy favoured by guys who then end up complaining when the woman goes out with some other guy, and bitch about how "nice guys finish last" (misinterpreting "not honest and clear about romantic intentions" for being "nice.")

Sorry, but every guy I have ever known who tried the "be a persistent friend" tactic failed. I'm sure it succeeds sometimes, but it's worse odds than roulette.
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