Why are female fashion models generally tall and thin?

[Call me Frank]

Well, anyone? Title asks it all....

Thanks for your replies...

[Call me Frank]

Originally Posted by Call me Frank

Well, anyone? Title asks it all....

Thanks for your replies...

I should clarify, I suppose. By thin, I don't mean "not overweight". I mean very thin, to the point of being too thin, imo.

[DeadlyAccurate]

Fashion designers tend to think (and may be right) that clothes hang better off of tall, thin women. Also, the camera tends to add a few pounds and subtract a few inches, so a tall, thin woman looks more like a shorter, more average-weighted woman once the film/photos are done.

I do believe the trend, in acting at least, is actually heading toward women of a more average size. Look at Scarlett Johansson in Lost in Translation and Amber Benson (Tara) in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

[pulykamell]

Speaking from a photographer's perspective, height is desirable in a model as long limbs produce very bold and stiking lines. As for the weight issue, once again, photographically, very thin models tend to come out well, as the flattening of the dimensions makes them look a little bit fuller than they actually are. I must agree with you; most models I see are far skinnier than what is aesthetically pleasing to me. But on film, they look great.

That's just one perspective.

[alice_in_wonderland]

Have you ever seen a fat clothes hanger?

No really. A very good model will disapper into the background and let the clothing do all the talking - watch one of the big shows sometime - when the girls are on stage you're stunned by their appearance. When they leave, all you remember is what they were wearing.

The lean model's body helps achieve this - the clothing drapes and flows over everything and doesn't really draw much attention to the woman.

Generally, runway models are thinner than print models, with the exception of underwear models who tend to have boobs.

[Really Not All That Bright]

FWIW (I used to manage open calls for one of the national agencies) there's a lot more flexibility in print (a misnomer, because "print" work covers most non-runway, non-live modelling) than there is in fashion (where the >5'8", <125 lbs. rule is fairly well-established).

DeadlyAccurate pretty much nailed it- designers found that tall and painfully skinny displayed clothing to better effect than any other build. Remember, a model's purpose is to make the clothes look good, not herself, so the fact that a more curvaceous (tall or short) woman might be more attractive isn't important.

[Ukulele Ike]

I guess we can consider haute couture to be Art, or at least Entertainment, so this thread can stay in Cafe Society.

"I've always enjoyed looking at women in women's clothes." -- Charles Bukowski.

[Evil Captor]

Of course, there's also the theory that most designers are gay, and that tall, thin fashion models most closely resemble their sexual ideal -- teen males.

[cichlidiot]

Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright

<snip> (where the >5'8", <125 lbs. rule is fairly well-established).<snip>

This is the first time I've seen hard numbers like that. How long ago was this (if you don't mind)? Was a model taken at her word, or was she actually measured and weighed by the agency before hiring? Also, was there a later weigh in after a given interval of time had passed?

[Exapno Mapcase]

There is enormous pressure on models to keep their weight down, by any means necessary. Drugs, eating disorders, cigarette addiction, and just plain starving are rampant. I doubt if they are put onto scales like jockeys (for whom all the above problems also apply) because there is no need. If a model gains even a few pounds it will be immediately obvious. They're seen nude all the time backstage and any bulges bigger than Cindy Crawford's mole will distort the clothing.

125 lb actually seems high for a runway model. Even the ones who have the figure to double as swimsuit models weigh less than that. Remember that Elle Macpherson had to put on 20 pounds for the film Sirens so that she only appeared to be skinny rather than emaciated.

There are a few models shorter than 5'8" (Kate Moss is, I believe) but most modeling agencies just won't bother with anyone shorter because then the clothes have to be specially adapted for a shorter body.

Fashion Model Size Requirements

For high fashion modeling there are size and "look" requirements. Model size seems to be the burning question for many. In checking around I have found no two sources agree on size for fashion models (some agencies have height, weight and size charts they strictly go by and others just a general look) and I am constantly finding exception. Different fashion designer and modeling agencies have varying standard that can change a few inches here and there depending on the "look" for that season (one year they are draping cloths over scare crow thin models, the next they are form fitting over voluptuous models). In general, mainstream female high fashion models are tall, thin, young and beautiful. How tall? Mainstream range - 5'9" to 5'11" with outer fringe being 5'8" to 6" with the extremely rare exception down to 5'5" and as tall as 6'1". Thin - puts weight at 108 to 130lbs in proportional to height. This puts dress size 6-8 with the desired figure around 34B-24-34. This can range some but waist no larger the 25" and maximum hips 35 ½." Beginning models start modeling in the age range of 13-19 and if you have not made it by twenty it is over.

[In checking around it looks like for Fall 2003 they are back to tall and very thin - 5' 9 to 5'10", size 2 to 4 but I think they would love size 0. If you are USA average of 5'6" size 10/12 forget about any hope of being a high fashion model this season.]

Size 0!

[Priam]

Originally Posted by Evil Captor

Of course, there's also the theory that most designers are gay, and that tall, thin fashion models most closely resemble their sexual ideal -- teen males.

Of course I personally consider that a load of hooey (this not being the Pit). Most of the people in my "hot hot oh my God" category tend to be in their early to mid twenties, and I actually know more gay men who favor the crowd older than that. The spectrum of attraction is just as diverse as any other group.

Plus the gay designers aren't going to go by what they consider an attractive female but by what type of attractive female has been shown to sell more of their clothes. They, just like the straight female designers, are out to sell clothes not sleep with their models.

[TeaElle]

Originally Posted by alice_in_wonderland

Generally, runway models are thinner than print models, with the exception of underwear models who tend to have boobs.

Clarification/Amplification: With the exception of underwear models who tend to have fake boobs. It's a very rare woman with a body fat percentage that low who could naturally sustain breasts that large.

I've been told that girls applying to be models who are generally skinny but have some actual curves have been counseled to get breast implants because so long as they have well-defined hips, their only real chance is to go the underwear model route, which requires cleavage. If they're flat-chested but also have no significant curves with regard to waist and hips, they can still make it in high fashion.

Blah. Gimme Kate Dillon or Mia Tyler any day.

[Evil Death]

Originally Posted by DeadlyAccurate

I do believe the trend, in acting at least, is actually heading toward women of a more average size. Look at Scarlett Johansson in Lost in Translation and Amber Benson (Tara) in Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

You were saying about the camera adding a few pounds. I've met Amber Benson, and she's quite slim.

[Lynne_kilii]

ooh. Now I'm in lust with Mia Tyler and it's all your fault, TeaElle!

[DeadlyAccurate]

Originally Posted by Evil Death

You were saying about the camera adding a few pounds. I've met Amber Benson, and she's quite slim.

I actually figured she was, but the camera does add a few pounds to make her look more normal-sized, especially compared to Alyson Hannigan, who is positively lanky even on the camera.

[cichlidiot]

Thank you for the skinny <groan>, Exapno Mapcase. I did some searching and on the sites I found, it looks like the runway models range from 5'9 to 5'11 and about 114 lbs. The mainly swimsuit models ran the same up to 126 lbs. I'm sure it can vary more than that with some agencies, but I'll admit I'm surprised. I didn't really believe all of the stories about starvation, etc. I thought it happened of course, but I figured there were a lot of models at that weight naturally.

I'm still clinging to my belief that some of those models don't starve themselves. The reason being I'm 5'10 and weighed 111.5 lbs until I was 25. I've gained weight since then, but have never starved myself (I eat when I'm hungry and have always pigged out on occasion). I never could have been a model, no boobs and not pretty enough, but it was nice to have the measurements put in perspective. I'll also add, while I'm sure people may find my body type gross, I never did have a doctor ask more than, "Have you always been this thin?" during a checkup.

[Eutychus]

It makes them easier to store.

[if6was9]

Cuz that's what ALL women look like, the desirable ones, anyway...

[Flutterby]

Originally Posted by TeaElle

Blah. Gimme Kate Dillon or Mia Tyler any day.

Looking at them makes me feel good about myself. They have my body type and look awesome, makes me feel like I can too (and I do.. when I put more effort into what ever's clean grab and put on lol)

[litost]

I've read that before the 60s, models were "normal" even a bit well-endowed. Marilyn Monroe, for example. Apparently, the skinny model became a fixture afterwards.

Oh wait, I heard that from Bill Maher. I don't know how true it is.

[TeaElle]

Originally Posted by Lynne_kilii

ooh. Now I'm in lust with Mia Tyler and it's all your fault, TeaElle!

Muwhahahahaha!

Originally Posted by flutterby

Looking at them makes me feel good about myself. They have my body type and look awesome, makes me feel like I can too (and I do.. when I put more effort into what ever's clean grab and put on lol)

Good! Not to say that it's not possible, but I wonder how many women look at, say, Bridget Hall or even Tyra Banks and think similar thoughts. I wouldn't think that it's too many.

[Exapno Mapcase]

Originally Posted by litost

I've read that before the 60s, models were "normal" even a bit well-endowed. Marilyn Monroe, for example. Apparently, the skinny model became a fixture afterwards.

Oh wait, I heard that from Bill Maher. I don't know how true it is.

Not at all.

Models today certainly are taller and thinner than ever, but "mannequins" were always supposed to be coat hangers that the clothes would drape perfectly on.

There never were big-breasted fashion models.

dictionary.com

mannequin

n 1: a woman who wears clothes to display fashions; "she was too fat to be a mannequin"

[Call me Frank]

I figured it had something to do with the way the clothing hung on their bodies... but, I didn't know if the reason was because near-emaciated models were cheaper to feed, lol!

[My Darn Snake Legs]

Originally Posted by TeaElle

Clarification/Amplification: With the exception of underwear models who tend to have fake boobs. It's a very rare woman with a body fat percentage that low who could naturally sustain breasts that large.

Let's not over generalize. One of my best friends dates a Victoria's Secret model and she is all real. She looks amazing.

That being said: it may be a rare woman who looks that way, but it also a rare woman who happens to be an underwear model. I would imagine that a natural woman would get preferance over a fake one in an industry that is built on scrutiny. Of course, I can't add a cite for the precentage. If someone can I would love to see it

[Lissla Lissar]

Models today certainly are taller and thinner than ever, but "mannequins" were always supposed to be coat hangers that the clothes would drape perfectly on.

Well, it depends when you're talking about. Models from the Twenties were thin-ish but curvy. They look pretty solid for models, by modern standards. I have a feeling the very very thin model didn't become normal until sometime in the Sixties.

Certainly Poiret and Vionnet and (getting farther back) Worth used women who looked to be in the normal weight and height range.

Also, modern clothes are designed to look best on those emaciated bodies. It's kind of a catch22. A perfectly designed Fifties New Look Dior dress would look ridiculous on a modern fashion model. They're not the right shape.

[vanilla]

When I was a teen, I was about 5'10" and 110 lbs.
I shoyuld have tried to become a model; had I known how much one makes, I would've.

But that look was not popular in real life back then(many years ago).
Everyone thought I looked lousy because of my thinness.

Now, in the past year I have ballooned up to 150 lbs and think I look much better(normal!)

But I was naturally thin, I would hate to have to diet to try to stay thin just for the money.

[ouisey]

It blows my mind that these women could look so good at such a weight. I'm almost 5'11", and I generally like my weight around 135 - 140. Even at 145, I'm all right, with some nice curves.

But I hit 125 once and looked deathly ill all the time. I felt OK, but a lot of people constantly asked me if I was well. I mean, I could lay on my back and point out my organs at that time. And my neck looked all stringy. It wasn't nice at all. Maybe that's why they're models and I'm not

[av8rmike]

One of my med-student friends hypothesized that some models have Marfan Syndrome, which results in people looking very tall and gangly.

Personally, I think models are all supposed to be tall & thin because it's easier to design clothes for that body type than any other.

[Little Nemo]

I've read that before the 60s, models were "normal" even a bit well-endowed. Marilyn Monroe, for example. Apparently, the skinny model became a fixture afterwards.

Marilyn Monroe was never a fashion model.

In the 60's, the aptly named Twiggy was considered the archtype for what a model should look like. It was in the 70's that things started to go back to a relatively more realistic look with models like Cheryl Tiegs.

[Exapno Mapcase]

But Twiggy was very much an aberration, even in the 1960s when thinness was in.

She was the first top model to be gain fame as a teenager, starting at about 16. And she never did the cat walk. (For one thing, she was too short, at 5'6".) She was strictly a photographer's model, used mainly to show off miniskirts. Her fame was limited to a couple of years.

She was different as the the 60s were different, a symbol of overthrowing the old fashion culture. And people generally hated her look, just like they hated the music and everything else she represented about Swingin' London.

I'd argue that the miniskirt was more important to the future of modeling than Twiggy, because ever after long, long, thin legs heightened the effect of the shortened hemlines. She was a pioneer, but like many pioneers she was quickly shunted aside.

ouisey, if you want to see that most mannequin style models really don't look good nude, rent Robert Altman's Prêt-à-Porter. There's a parade of nude fashion models at the end that is anything but sexy.

[js_africanus]

Originally Posted by Exapno Mapcase

ouisey, if you want to see that most mannequin style models really don't look good nude, rent Robert Altman's Prêt-à-Porter. There's a parade of nude fashion models at the end that is anything but sexy.

Not sexy? Try übersexy. Of course, not having access to runway models sans television or photos, I can't comment on whether the camera takes them from too thin to wonderful; however, I can say that through the camera they tend to be very beautuful indeed. Assuming that we're talking about the same nude fashion show, I was suprised at how good they looked.

Obviously, some runway models are too thin for my taste. But the times that I've seen shows like Fashion Trance on Style, the models tend to be extremely sexy. I definately find someone like Mariacarla to be much sexier than, say, a Marilyn Monroe.

[chula]

Originally Posted by ouisey

It blows my mind that these women could look so good at such a weight. I'm almost 5'11", and I generally like my weight around 135 - 140. Even at 145, I'm all right, with some nice curves.

But I hit 125 once and looked deathly ill all the time. I felt OK, but a lot of people constantly asked me if I was well. I mean, I could lay on my back and point out my organs at that time. And my neck looked all stringy. It wasn't nice at all. Maybe that's why they're models and I'm not

I'm 5'11" and my preferred weight is 140-145. My usual weight is 145-150, and people call me "skinny." I would look terrible if I lost more than 10 pounds, and I'd have to lose around 30 to model!