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Old 05-24-2004, 03:53 PM
Roland Deschain Roland Deschain is offline
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Is It Actually Common for Women To Have Orgasms During Rape?

During, a Sociology 100 class that I had a couple of years ago the professor spent about three weeks talking about rape. One of the points that was on the "PowerPoint" as a possible test question was that in fact it was common for women to have Orgasms during a rape. He indicated that this later contributed to the guilt often experienced later as part of "rape trauma syndrome". He went on to explain that the police (especially if they haven't been trained about rape) are more likely not to pursue charges when women admit orgasms. He also talked about how defense attorneys sometimes use these admissions against the victims at trial. Here are my specific questions relating to this issue:

1. Is there really objective evidence supporting the assertion that it is common for women to have orgasms during rape (I don't think Dr. Blakely presented studies, but it's possible that he did and I don't remember).

2. Since my wife has never had an orgasm (from penetration) during sex with me. I might be offended if she had one during a rape. Perhaps this explains (in part) the common phenomina (according to Dr. Blakely at least) of men blaiming "their women" for being raped.
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Old 05-24-2004, 04:19 PM
gtbiehle gtbiehle is offline
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I knew a rape counselor who used to talk about rape a lot. One time she talked about the guilt women feel if they have an orgasm during rape. My impression is that it is not common. What kind of objective study are you after? The whole topic is already taboo. Orgasm during rape is doubly so. I suspect that some women have orgasm during penile-vaginal sex more easily than others, and these women would be more likely to have orgasm during a rape, if the act lasted long enough so that pain was not as much of an issue. What is the point, however? It is still a horrible act, and the orgasm is merely a biological response to things going on below conscious control.
  #3  
Old 05-24-2004, 04:37 PM
neuroman neuroman is offline
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Is orgasm during rape possible? Yes. Is it likely, or more likely than during normal sex? Nope.
  #4  
Old 05-24-2004, 05:42 PM
missbunny missbunny is offline
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Given that a woman having an orgasm from penetration alone is not common in the first place, I can't see how it would become so much more common while being forced to have sex against one's will.

What IS most likely common is the feeling of guilt that the very few women who do have an orgasm during rape feel because they had an orgasm. But the orgasm itself "common"? I doubt it. I question from where your professor got his data. Perhaps he was confusing (or you are misremembering) "orgasm" with becoming lubricated, which is a physiological response and can happen at any time, not just when a woman feels sexual arousal.
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Old 05-24-2004, 06:24 PM
GorillaMan GorillaMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland Deschain
He went on to explain that the police (especially if they haven't been trained about rape) are more likely not to pursue charges when women admit orgasms. He also talked about how defense attorneys sometimes use these admissions against the victims at trial.
The first of these statements from your professor is questionable - I cannot envisage any woman talking about an orgasm from rape in initial questioning by a nonspecialist officer. The second is one you can directly challenge him on, if you have the opportunity - ask for actual examples of cases where this supposed 'orgasm defence' was invoked.
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Old 05-24-2004, 09:28 PM
stockton stockton is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland Deschain
Since my wife has never had an orgasm (from penetration) during sex with me. I might be offended if she had one during a rape.
I hope you're so offended you leave her immediately and she can start her life over with someone that has a brain and an ounce of compassion. OFFENDED? Oh, man - I know this isn't the pit so I'll hold back on the vitriol, but it's obvious that you've never met/married/dated a rape victim and you have a very high opinon of your own position in the universe. Unfortunately, it's several levels lower than you might imagine. Are you still here?
  #7  
Old 05-24-2004, 10:22 PM
EsotericEnigma EsotericEnigma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockton
I hope you're so offended you leave her immediately and she can start her life over with someone that has a brain and an ounce of compassion. OFFENDED? Oh, man - I know this isn't the pit so I'll hold back on the vitriol, but it's obvious that you've never met/married/dated a rape victim and you have a very high opinon of your own position in the universe. Unfortunately, it's several levels lower than you might imagine. Are you still here?
That's a pretty unreasonably aggressive response to an honest opinion. Your point was lost in the midst of all those insults.

Can you honestly not see why a person would be offended if their partner orgasmed during intercourse (whether rape or not) with a stranger, but not during sex with them?
  #8  
Old 05-24-2004, 10:40 PM
antechinus antechinus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland Deschain
2. Since my wife has never had an orgasm (from penetration) during sex with me. I might be offended if she had one during a rape.
Yeah that would be offensive, wouldnt it. Watch the movie "Straw Dogs" that should intensify your head-noises.
  #9  
Old 05-24-2004, 11:01 PM
elfbabe elfbabe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockton
I hope you're so offended you leave her immediately and she can start her life over with someone that has a brain and an ounce of compassion. OFFENDED?
I think perhaps our buddy Roland may have chosen his words poorly. Let's just assume he meant that he'd be upset, confused, and hurt, shall we? Or pursue this in a more fiery locale.

I've been trying to find more information on this, but it's really difficult to turn up anything other than porn sites. I have seen some references, however, to orgasms during rape being attributed to the adrenaline rush.
  #10  
Old 05-24-2004, 11:13 PM
erislover erislover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockton
I hope you're so offended you leave her immediately and she can start her life over with someone that has a brain and an ounce of compassion. OFFENDED? Oh, man - I know this isn't the pit so I'll hold back on the vitriol, but it's obvious that you've never met/married/dated a rape victim and you have a very high opinon of your own position in the universe. Unfortunately, it's several levels lower than you might imagine. Are you still here?
Because there's no way a rape could give anyone confusing thoughts except the woman herself, eh?
  #11  
Old 05-24-2004, 11:28 PM
Badge Badge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland Deschain
He went on to explain that the police (especially if they haven't been trained about rape) are more likely not to pursue charges when women admit orgasms.
This statement is absolutely ridiculous! No Officer would ever ask such an offensive question, and if the victim were to volunteer the information (something that I think would be very unlikely) it would make absolutely no difference in how the case is handled.
  #12  
Old 05-25-2004, 12:56 AM
Really Not All That Bright Really Not All That Bright is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stockton
I hope you're so offended you leave her immediately and she can start her life over with someone that has a brain and an ounce of compassion. OFFENDED? Oh, man - I know this isn't the pit so I'll hold back on the vitriol, but it's obvious that you've never met/married/dated a rape victim and you have a very high opinon of your own position in the universe. Unfortunately, it's several levels lower than you might imagine. Are you still here?
Easy, there. He's merely pointing out that he would feel that way. He didn't say he wouldn't also feel compassion for his wife, anger toward the rapist, and all that. They just aren't relevant to his point (and his Pitting involved a couple requests to leave out unnecessary personal information).

Badge, let's be realistic here. I have no doubt that you, personally, and even possibly every officer you have worked (served?) with has been able to treat each victim with equal respect and due care. I seriously doubt, however, that there is not a substantial number of law enforcement personnel who occasionally ask offensive questions (particularly questions that may be very relevant to the investigation) or let prejudice cloud their judgment.

I didn't find any statistics on this but I did see that 1 in 12 rapes occurs in a parking garage
  #13  
Old 05-25-2004, 01:10 AM
Starguard Starguard is offline
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I have an uncle that was a rape victim once...when he was in prison
  #14  
Old 05-25-2004, 01:24 AM
Triskadecamus Triskadecamus is offline
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Most rape victims do not have orgasmic responses to the experience of rape.

There are some women who agonize for years over even the most minor response from their bodies during a rape. Guilt, self loathing, and horrible feelings of shame can follow a woman for years, simply because her body operated as it was created to operate. The possibility that a woman would publicly state that she had an orgasm seems to me to be vanishingly small, except in the specific case where she trusted the person so completely that she was able to share this troubling issue.

In fact, it is almost a sure thing that physical responses to rape will include some of the same physical processes that are generally called arousal. That doesn’t mean pleasurable, of course. Yet, even that level of response is not impossible, nor indicative of any personal predisposition by that woman to being raped. It is a physiological response. If I shove a probe up your rectum, (if you are male), and use electrical stimulation on you, the chances are you will become erect, and perhaps ejaculate. This doesn’t mean you liked it, or wanted it. You body responded to a stimulus.

Tris
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:08 AM
Roland Deschain Roland Deschain is offline
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The class was almost two years ago and the details on the subject are somewhat sketchy. In general here is what I remember:

1. According to Dr Blakely (and the research he cited. Actually, when he cited research he would usually cite the research authors, but not tremendous details as to the "nuts and bolts" of the research itself. Then again we are talking a 100 level class):

1. Those rape trauma victims who felt the most "secure" meaning that they were doing "nothing wrong" at the time of the rapes actually had the worst recovery rates. For example women that were raped while walking alone late at night fared better than those who were say in the safety of their homes when the assault occured.

2. He did specifically reference orgasm and not lubrication. Although, I can't Imagine a police officer asking this or a victim volunteering this information.

3. We talked about some guy (Stupanski maybe?) who argued that women should "not resist" rape. According to this perspective women not trained in self defense shouldn't attempt to resist the rape. However, he also talked about later research (again I cannot remember the authors) who argued that women should avoid being removed from public places at all costs.

4. Offended that my wife would have an orgasm is a poor choice of words, hurt is more accurate. Ever since highschool, I like many have noted that the guys that seemed to treat "women like dirt" were also often the ones who had the most dates with the most attractive women. Since one of my hypotheses about the nature of the universe is that "we are little more than somewhat evolved primates" I have often wondered if this didn't reflect some deep seated evolutionary response to the "alpha male".

5. I recall having to read a short story in highschool called "Rape Fantasies" I think by Margaret Atwood. I recall at the time our teacher Mrs Culver (then Mrs Fedorchick, I think she has another last name now) saying that such fantasies were common among women (she wouldn't say if she herself had them). I was surprised by this since I can't imagine many men having "rape fantasies", then again perhaps that's because rape with regard to men, usually involves other men.
  #16  
Old 05-25-2004, 03:11 AM
Roland Deschain Roland Deschain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland Deschain
The class was almost two years ago and the details on the subject are somewhat sketchy. In general here is what I remember:

1. According to Dr Blakely (and the research he cited. Actually, when he cited research he would usually cite the research authors, but not tremendous details as to the "nuts and bolts" of the research itself. Then again we are talking a 100 level class):

1. Those rape trauma victims who felt the most "secure" meaning that they were doing "nothing wrong" at the time of the rapes actually had the worst recovery rates. For example women that were raped while walking alone late at night fared better than those who were say in the safety of their homes when the assault occured.

2. He did specifically reference orgasm and not lubrication. Although, I can't Imagine a police officer asking this or a victim volunteering this information.

3. We talked about some guy (Stupanski maybe?) who argued that women should "not resist" rape. According to this perspective women not trained in self defense shouldn't attempt to resist the rape. However, he also talked about later research (again I cannot remember the authors) who argued that women should avoid being removed from public places at all costs.

4. Offended that my wife would have an orgasm is a poor choice of words, hurt is more accurate. Ever since highschool, I like many have noted that the guys that seemed to treat "women like dirt" were also often the ones who had the most dates with the most attractive women. Since one of my hypotheses about the nature of the universe is that "we are little more than somewhat evolved primates" I have often wondered if this didn't reflect some deep seated evolutionary response to the "alpha male".

5. I recall having to read a short story in highschool called "Rape Fantasies" I think by Margaret Atwood. I recall at the time our teacher Mrs Culver (then Mrs Fedorchick, I think she has another last name now) saying that such fantasies were common among women (she wouldn't say if she herself had them). I was surprised by this since I can't imagine many men having "rape fantasies", then again perhaps that's because rape with regard to men, usually involves other men.
By the way, I wonder if "faking" an orgasm during rape (and here I am primarily talking about the abduction kind that more often ends in homicide) might improve one's chances of survival? If nothing else the perp. might decide to let the victim live a little longer (so he can go back for more) possibly providing an opportunity to escape or counter attack.
  #17  
Old 05-25-2004, 06:13 AM
istara istara is offline
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Quote:
4. Offended that my wife would have an orgasm is a poor choice of words, hurt is more accurate. Ever since highschool, I like many have noted that the guys that seemed to treat "women like dirt" were also often the ones who had the most dates with the most attractive women.
I would hope - and this is not the Pit so I will control my language - that any man's sole, and certainly primary reaction to your wife suffering rape would be one of concern and compassion for her, and anger at the perpertrator. NOT some pathetic reaction deriving from the victim's partners own insecurities.

More imporantly: there is a MASSIVE, critical difference between a violent, unwanted rape and "rape fantasy". Whereas your wife might be turned on by CONSENSUAL, semi-rough or light BDSM sex with an alpha-male treat 'em mean/keep 'em keen bikie type, this is worlds - UNIVERSES - apart from the same man grabbing her in the dark as a stranger and forcing himself upon her.

Erotic stories are full of rape fantasy - of the (limited admittedly) stuff I have read, it is far more about reluctance and ravishment, of an unwilling (but secretly willing) maiden. Or if it is rape, the woman can't stop her body's reaction, and ends up having about ten orgasms.

But this is FICTION. The average woman does not have ten orgasms every sexual encounter, nor is she likely to have any when suffering a horrific, life-threatening, shocking ordeal.

As for faking an orgasm during rape: I can't see how it would make any different. Rape is about power, violence, anger and perverted sexual desire. It is not about satisfying a woman (except in those fictional fantasies) and I doubt the average rapist would even notice if the woman did have ten thunderous multiple orgasms as a result of his brutality. (Which obviously she would not).
  #18  
Old 05-25-2004, 06:34 AM
The Great Sun Jester The Great Sun Jester is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by istara
I would hope ... that any man's sole, and certainly primary reaction to your wife suffering rape would be one of concern and compassion for her, and anger at the perpertrator. NOT some pathetic reaction deriving from the victim's partners own insecurities.
C'mon already! Give the guy a break! No one can control how they react emotionally to any situation. What you can do is control how or whether you choose to express that emotion. Roland never implied he'd hold it against his woman and always bring it up in a tiff the same way I always rail on my wife about not closing cupboard doors when we argue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by istara
As for faking an orgasm during rape: I can't see how it would make any different. Rape is about power, violence, anger and perverted sexual desire. It is not about satisfying a woman (except in those fictional fantasies) and I doubt the average rapist would even notice if the woman did have ten thunderous multiple orgasms as a result of his brutality. (Which obviously she would not).
Here's a quarter, go buy a clue. To someone who's enough off mentally & sexually to commit a violent rape, what better confirmation of power than to force an orgasm upon an unwilling victim? I'm not saying that giving up at least the appearance of an orgasm will ensure survival, but it'll probably serve this end better than an outward show of disgust and revulsion toward the assailant. But then I don't know a whole lot about the psycology of the sociopath. Maybe it would be just the ticket to convince him that this inferior piece of human waste should be offed just as soon as he's through with it.
  #19  
Old 05-25-2004, 06:35 AM
The Great Sun Jester The Great Sun Jester is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starguard
I have an uncle that was a rape victim once...when he was in prison
Well...did he, um...you know.....?
  #20  
Old 05-25-2004, 07:16 AM
Shalmanese Shalmanese is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland Deschain
During, a Sociology 100 class that I had a couple of years ago the professor spent about three weeks talking about rape.

Forget about that, why the hell would your professor spend 3 weeks of a SOC100 class on rape? Sounds like he/she had some hangups of their own .
  #21  
Old 05-25-2004, 07:52 AM
MsWhatsit MsWhatsit is offline
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As far as whether it's better to fake orgasm or not, or go along with the rapist willingly or not, I read a series of books a few years back by a guy who used to be an FBI profiler -- can't remember the guy's name, but one of the book titles was "Mindhunter" -- and I seem to recall that in it, he said that rapists fit multiple profiles. Some prefer their victims to fight back, and when they encounter a passive victim, it only makes them angrier. On the other hand, some rapists will become enraged if the victim DOES fight back. I'm not sure what lesson you can draw from this as far as what to do if you're in the situation, except to try to avoid being in the situation in the first place, I guess.

Information from someone more informed on this topic would be welcome.
  #22  
Old 05-25-2004, 07:59 AM
KidCharlemagne KidCharlemagne is offline
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Do most women put up a fight during the entire rape or submit when they think it's futile? And at the risk of seeming insensitive: Do they have full blown toe-curling orgasms where they actually moan and pull the guy in deeper or just some sort of involuntary spasm?
  #23  
Old 05-25-2004, 08:57 AM
Kalhoun Kalhoun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badge
This statement is absolutely ridiculous! No Officer would ever ask such an offensive question, and if the victim were to volunteer the information (something that I think would be very unlikely) it would make absolutely no difference in how the case is handled.
Watch the documentary, "Brandon Teena" (or the other way around...I forget) and see how utterly compassionless cops can be when it comes to rape. I swear, I'd have hauled off and...

I've seen and read enough on the subject to know that cops are not the most tactful animals on earth.
  #24  
Old 05-25-2004, 09:01 AM
Carnac the Magnificent! Carnac the Magnificent! is offline
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This Board hit a pathetic new low.
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Old 05-25-2004, 09:15 AM
Dogzilla Dogzilla is offline
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Train Wreck Syndrome: I read this entire thread, despite my better judgment, with an expression on my face akin to the one when I encounter a maggoty dead animal on the road.

The question in the OP alone is enough to make me physically sick and give me nightmares for weeks.
  #26  
Old 05-25-2004, 09:41 AM
GorillaMan GorillaMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogzilla
The question in the OP alone is enough to make me physically sick and give me nightmares for weeks.
That may be so - but there was a good reason for asking it, having had a professor make such outlandish assertions and wanting some third-party opinions, feedback and evidence.
  #27  
Old 05-26-2004, 12:23 AM
Cuckoorex Cuckoorex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogzilla
Train Wreck Syndrome: I read this entire thread, despite my better judgment, with an expression on my face akin to the one when I encounter a maggoty dead animal on the road.

The question in the OP alone is enough to make me physically sick and give me nightmares for weeks.
Yes, god forbid that someone come to the SDMB seeking to be educated about something; their questions might make some of us physically sick.
  #28  
Old 05-26-2004, 12:37 AM
xash xash is offline
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I believe the factual parts of the OP have been answered, particularly by neuroman and Triskadecamus[/b].

This is closed.

-xash
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