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  #1  
Old 06-19-2004, 08:01 AM
sidle sidle is offline
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Do you clap on the 1-3 or the 2-4?

Another thread in which people were joking about clapping on the 1-3 got me thinking.
I clap on the 1-3, I think.
Humor me here-let's use the song Hit the Road, Jack (as Dave Barry once did)

I clap like this:
Hit the road, (clap), Jack, (clap)-on the offbeat, after the words, rather than on
Hit the road(clap), Jack(clap) the words.
Is that 1-3 or 2-4?
Explain, please?
Use another song if needed?

I also recently read somewhere that NY is a 2-4 town and Atlanta's a 1-3 town.
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  #2  
Old 06-19-2004, 08:35 AM
dbygawdcapn dbygawdcapn is offline
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I do the opposite of what everyone else does. I like to appear to be extremely uncoordinated.
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  #3  
Old 06-19-2004, 08:37 AM
Garfield226 Garfield226 is offline
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I think you described clapping on the two and four. I'd consider "Hit the" as pickups to "road" on the downbeat (1), rest/clap on two, Jack (3), and clap on four.

"And" is another pickup, then "don'cha" on one, "come"/clap on two, "back" on three, "no"/clap on four, etc.


That's how I'd do it, at least.
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  #4  
Old 06-19-2004, 08:52 AM
don't ask don't ask is offline
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Drummer's Aptitude Test on a great site with simple explanations that will convince you that you can learn to drum.
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  #5  
Old 06-19-2004, 09:31 AM
AncientHumanoid AncientHumanoid is offline
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[Queen]

stomp stomp clap

stomp stomp clap

[/Queen]
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  #6  
Old 06-19-2004, 09:54 AM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is online now
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ISTR reading in one of my history of early rock and roll books that the change in beat was one of the formulaic changes that led to RnR.

Prior to the popularity of Rythym and Blues the primary beat (snare drum) would be on 1 and 3 and that R&B turned that to 2 and 4 and gave us the primacy of the shuffle and agressive dance beats that would later transform a combination of C&W and R&B into early rock and roll.
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  #7  
Old 06-19-2004, 10:10 AM
Musicat Musicat is offline
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The backbeat defines jazz, Rock N Roll, and much of pop music that has a blues or funk flair like R&B, as Jonathan Chance said. A backbeat is a hit on 2 & 4, on the traditionally unaccented beats; a syncopation of a simple sort. That's what syncopation is, putting an accent somewhere else than "standard" or "normal."

In the song "Hit the road, Jack.." as usually heard, "Road" falls on 1, "Jack" falls on 2. "Doncha come" on 3, "back no more..." on 4.

You're hip if you clap on 2 & 4, square if on 1 & 3. And don't you forget it.
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  #8  
Old 06-19-2004, 10:47 AM
sidle sidle is offline
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[qoute] A backbeat is a hit on 2 & 4, on the traditionally unaccented beats[/quote]

OK, then. That's when I clap. I guess I thought it was on the 1-3 because they're odd numbers=off beat. D'oh.

Quote:
You're hip if you clap on 2 & 4, square if on 1 & 3. And don't you forget it.

My baby's Gymboree music teacher, who is teaching 1 year olds the basic rhythms of jazz music, claps on the 1-3.
It was driving me nuts the other day-I felt like she was clapping like an old person.
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  #9  
Old 06-19-2004, 11:46 AM
monstro monstro is online now
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Try it with "When the Saints Come Marching In".

If you clap on saints, then you are clapping on the 1. ("When the" is on the pickup)

If you clap right after saints, you are clapping on the 2.

Try it with Mary Had a Little Lamb. If you clap on "Mary", you're a loser (just kidding!)

I clap on the 2 and 4 because 1) it's the most natural to me and 2)songs sound cooler when they are accented on the offbeats. However, this doesn't always hold. James Brown is famous for "jamming on the one", which the accent being on the first beat. But he's the only exception (who's cool) that I can think of, but maybe there are others.

My father is quite observant about these things. He was the first to point out to me that white people are more likely to clap on the 1 and 3 than black people. I didn't want to agree with this (who would ever clap on the 1 and 3!!??) but then one day, we went to a fairly intergrated church that featured lively gospel music. I watched. Sure enough, all the black people were clapping on the 2 and 4. Some of the white people were as well, but others were clapping on the 1 and 3. I wanted to grab their hands and get them on the beat!

I think this tendency is behind the stereotype that whites have no rhythm. Whites do have rhythm, though. It's just....special.
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  #10  
Old 06-19-2004, 11:51 AM
Mister Rik Mister Rik is online now
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*heh* One of the little joke you hear in group singing situations (such as church) is that where you clap indicates how "black" you are. i.e. if you clap on 1 & 3, you must be really white; clapping on 2 & 4 indicates "black". This derives from the traditional image of an all-white congregation clapping on 1 & 3 as compared to a black Southern Baptist congregation all clapping on 2 & 4.

If you're clapping along with, say, a march or ragtime song, 1 & 3 would be appropriate. If you're clapping along with rock & roll, country, gospel, jazz, etc, 2 & 4 is appropriate. Basically, listen for the snare drum and clap where you hear it.
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  #11  
Old 06-19-2004, 11:54 AM
monstro monstro is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidle
...Atlanta's a 1-3 town.
I know Atlanta's changed somewhat since I moved five years ago, but please don't let it have changed that much!
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2004, 03:18 PM
wolfman wolfman is offline
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Please don't make fun of me, but can you explain this using"Thank God I'm a country boy?" For some reason it's the only song I can think of the claps clearly right now without the music playing.

Code:
Life Ain't noth-ing but a fun-ny fun-ny Ridd-le (pause), Thank God I'ma coun-try boy
*                         *                        *              *                  *
* = clap

Which way is that?
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2004, 04:37 PM
monstro monstro is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfman
Please don't make fun of me, but can you explain this using"Thank God I'm a country boy?" For some reason it's the only song I can think of the claps clearly right now without the music playing.

Code:
Life Ain't noth-ing but a fun-ny fun-ny Ridd-le (pause), Thank God I'ma coun-try boy
*                         *                        *              *                  *
* = clap

Which way is that?
I'd love to help, but I don't know that song. Can you think of a non-country tune that you can clap to?
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  #14  
Old 06-19-2004, 05:00 PM
AncientHumanoid AncientHumanoid is offline
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How about Billy Squire's Stroke -?
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  #15  
Old 06-19-2004, 05:19 PM
Mister Rik Mister Rik is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfman
Please don't make fun of me, but can you explain this using"Thank God I'm a country boy?" For some reason it's the only song I can think of the claps clearly right now without the music playing.

Code:
Life Ain't noth-ing but a fun-ny fun-ny Ridd-le (pause), Thank God I'ma coun-try boy
*                         *                        *              *                  *
* = clap

Which way is that?
The way you have it written, you have a clap on 1 on the word "Life", then on "4" on the word "but". However... I had to download it (bad bad me, I know) to check it out. On the copy I found, which sounds like a live version, the clapping is on 2 & 4. At least until the clapping fades out in the mix, about the time of the first chorus. So it should be:

Code:
Life Ain't noth-ing but a fun-ny fun-ny Ridd-le (pause), Thank God I'm a coun-try boy
       *                   *                 *              *                  *              *                     *
* = clap
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  #16  
Old 06-19-2004, 05:31 PM
Mister Rik Mister Rik is online now
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D'OH! My coding didn't come out right! Probably what happened with yours. It would be nice if I could actually see the monospaced font while I"m typing it, instead of having to count characters. Trying again...

Code:
Life Ain't noth-ing but a fun-ny fun-ny Ridd-le (pause), Thank God I'm a coun-try boy         
     *              *            *                       *         *              *
* = clap[/QUOTE]
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  #17  
Old 06-19-2004, 05:57 PM
jastu jastu is offline
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Thank God I'm a Country Boy is a particularly difficult example.

My SO played in a band for years and the guys would often comment and joke about the unco clapping of some people in the audience. When in doubt, just follow what the majority are doing.
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  #18  
Old 06-19-2004, 05:59 PM
TJdude825 TJdude825 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicat
In the song "Hit the road, Jack.." as usually heard, "Road" falls on 1, "Jack" falls on 2. "Doncha come" on 3, "back no more..." on 4.

You're hip if you clap on 2 & 4, square if on 1 & 3. And don't you forget it.
No no! I mean, you could count it that way, but it's twice as slow as you should when you're clapping. Think of it this way:

Code:
hit the road     jack
 4   +    1  (2)   3   (4)

and don'tcha come back  no
 +    1   +   2     3   4
etc.

Then clap on 2 and 4.
Never EVER clap on 1 or 3. Thank you.
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  #19  
Old 06-19-2004, 06:01 PM
TJdude825 TJdude825 is offline
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Phase42, type your [code] in notepad using a monospace font, then copy it into the reply box.
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  #20  
Old 06-20-2004, 08:12 AM
Musicat Musicat is offline
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TJdude825, your "Hit the road" clapping is, indeed, twice as many claps as I had diagrammed for any time period. Either way will result in a backbeat clapping. You're just defining the beat values as half the note values I did, so the 1,2,3,4 counting is twice as fast for the same song tempo.
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  #21  
Old 06-20-2004, 09:23 AM
calm kiwi calm kiwi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJdude825
Never EVER clap on 1 or 3. Thank you.
I have so much rythym I'm likely to clap on 2 and 9. Anyone else should think themselves lucky.
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  #22  
Old 06-20-2004, 01:36 PM
dnooman dnooman is offline
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Do you people actually clap when you hear music? Is this some sort of hipness test? That said, if clapping must absolutely be done, it is certainly most tastefully done on the 2 and 4 as has been mentioned. Clapping on the 1 and 3 denotes an only rudimentary understanding of rhythm.

As another poster stated "one drops" can be made cool and even funky if done correctly. James Brown did have it down, and a lot of Ska/Dancehall music utilizes accents on the 1 and only the 1.

If you really want to look cool, start clapping on either the "e" the "&" or the "a" which are sixteenth note subdivisions of a beat. Sounds kind of like a locomotive if you chant it right. 1 e & a, 2 e & a, 3 e & a, 4 e & a The a is pronounced "uh" and the e and & sound just like they look.

Maybe I should start an "Ask a Drummer" thread. I just might.
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  #23  
Old 06-20-2004, 10:41 PM
sidle sidle is offline
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Yes, according to When the Saints Go Marching In, I'm indeed a 2-4.


Quote:
jamming on the one
Score!
Cosby Show rerun line explained!

(You just never know what you'll learn on the SDMB...)
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  #24  
Old 06-20-2004, 10:44 PM
sidle sidle is offline
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Quote:
Do you people actually clap when you hear music?
I got a giggle out of that.
Not as a rule, no, I don't just break into this backwards-ass thumping whenever I hear Musac or the opening score to the nightly local news,

but my baby's in a music class. We have to clap along to terrible, insipid kids' music. Which would be fine if I could be rendered mercifully deaf for 2 hours a week.
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  #25  
Old 06-21-2004, 12:18 AM
fishbicycle fishbicycle is offline
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Nah, I never clap to music, but if I was going to, it would only be on the backbeat. I can't help it, being a drummer and all.

Is it only whitebread people devoid of rhythm that clap on the 1 and 3? The worst example I can think of ever seeing is Bill Clinton clapping along to Fleetwood Mac, on the downbeat, but out of time!

Pass the Brain Javex, please.
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  #26  
Old 06-21-2004, 06:42 AM
asterion asterion is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbicycle
Is it only whitebread people devoid of rhythm that clap on the 1 and 3? The worst example I can think of ever seeing is Bill Clinton clapping along to Fleetwood Mac, on the downbeat, but out of time!
Well, he is a woodwind player. True, you'd think a sax player would have a better sense of rhythm than that, but he's still a woodwind player.
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  #27  
Old 06-21-2004, 09:48 AM
Small Clanger Small Clanger is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJdude825
Never EVER clap on 1 or 3. Thank you.
Bloody right. It drives me up the wall when a TV or radio audience spontaneously joins in some performance. They always clap on 1 and 3 demonstrating a TOTAL LACK OF RYTHYM and then they SPEED UP because they don't have to vaguest concept of keeping time. If you've got the musical sophistication of a bunch of cattle stick to mooing.
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  #28  
Old 06-21-2004, 09:49 AM
Ludovic Ludovic is offline
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When I clap, I clap on the 2 and 4. I'd clap on the 1 and 3, but since there's usually actually drums playing (at least in the style of music I get into enough to clap to,) there isnt really a point to clapping.
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  #29  
Old 06-21-2004, 10:06 AM
little*bit little*bit is offline
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A friend and I came up with a theory, YMMV.
(field studies done circa 1991 by little*bit - Puertorican female & BJ - African-American male)

The true test of white vs. black rhythm is the head nod. While listening to music please not whether you not your head forward or back on the beat. While white folks tend to prefer the headbangers not (chin forward/down) people of color tend to do the "chin up" nod (kind of a How-you-doin' thing). We were wondering if it had something to do with not being vulnerable (breaking eye contact) or showing subserviance in a social setting. As a hispanic woman, I know the only time I bow my head to music is in church.
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  #30  
Old 06-21-2004, 10:10 AM
little*bit little*bit is offline
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<snip> While listening to music please note whether you not your head forward or back on the beat. While white folks tend to prefer the headbangers nod (chin forward/down), people of color tend to do the "chin up" nod (kind of a How-you-doin' thing). <snip>

Sorry. Proof reading is not my strong point.
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  #31  
Old 06-21-2004, 10:14 AM
DaddyTimesTwo DaddyTimesTwo is offline
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Being an erstwhile (non-pro) drummer myself, it just feels natural to clap on 2 & 4. The fact that many people don't have this (what I thought was a most natural) inclincation indicates that maybe I'm not so hopelessy square as I thought (although I don't dance (sober anyway), I do dig alot of funk/dance mix/club/electronica stuff).

It is most regularly apparent to me when I get to listen to A Prairie Home Companion. The audience will occasionally feel the need to clap along with the bluegrass or country or Americana or root-n-roll group that's playing that week and they will almost without fail clap on the 1-3. It seems so obviously wrong to me I would like someone with the clout to explain to Mr Keillor that his audience is a bunch of no rhythm losers. I know he won't listen to me. Maybe Clyde Stubbelfield (from Michaal Feldman's What Do You Know? among other things) can stop by and help out. That guy's got some chops.

Oh, and little*bit? What about the head bob with the overbite? Is that less cool or more cool than the nod?
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  #32  
Old 06-21-2004, 10:34 AM
little*bit little*bit is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyTimesTwo
Oh, and little*bit? What about the head bob with the overbite? Is that less cool or more cool than the nod?
There are very few things in this world that are cooler with an overbite. I know, I used to have one.
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  #33  
Old 06-21-2004, 11:54 AM
monstro monstro is online now
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I think DaddyTimesTwo is referring to the white man's overbite. AKA, the "carlton".

I'm not sure it's possible to do the nod and the overbite. I'm pretty sure if I saw someone doing both of these things, I'd think they were having a seizure and I'd call an ambulance.
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  #34  
Old 06-21-2004, 02:51 PM
DaddyTimesTwo DaddyTimesTwo is offline
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Billy Crystal did a good "white man's overbite" in When Harry Met Sally..., I believe when they first met driving to Chicago. Or maybe on the plane, the second time they meet? Anyway, I'm talking about biting your lower lip with your teeth and bobbing your head like a chicken, front to back just with the neck, usually while sitting at your desk listening to music on headphones. Or driving in the car. Classic up-tight, white-guy grooves, man.
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  #35  
Old 06-21-2004, 03:07 PM
Chastain86 Chastain86 is offline
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I just tried the experiment with "Hit the Road, Jack," and discovered I'm a 2-4 clapper. Not bad for a white kid from the Midwest.

I also tried to do it on the 1-3, and couldn't do it for longer than a couple seconds. It just...grates on me.
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  #36  
Old 06-21-2004, 07:04 PM
Mister Rik Mister Rik is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaddyTimesTwo
Anyway, I'm talking about biting your lower lip with your teeth and bobbing your head like a chicken, front to back just with the neck, usually while sitting at your desk listening to music on headphones. Or driving in the car. Classic up-tight, white-guy grooves, man.
I just tried out that technique, and... good lord, that's uncomfortable! I could never keep that up. I just do the normal head-bob - up on 1 & 3, down on 2 & 4, kinda like little*bit described "people of color" doing. Maybe it's because I'm a bass player...

Quote:
Originally Posted by calm kiwi
I have so much rythym I'm likely to clap on 2 and 9. Anyone else should think themselves lucky.
Actually, that would probably work if you were clapping along to, say, Rush (who I'm going to see July 2!)
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  #37  
Old 06-21-2004, 07:06 PM
Mister Rik Mister Rik is online now
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No, wait, I mixed that up. I do what little*bit said the headbangers do. Probably because I used to be a headbanger. And a bass player.
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  #38  
Old 06-21-2004, 07:51 PM
easy e easy e is offline
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[meek] I clap on the 1 and 3. Yes, I suck. However, I justify it by saying that I played in band and orchestra for years (clarinet), and in classical music, the accents are usually on the 1 and 3, so that's what I'm used to.

Watch, now I'll be totally wrong about which beats are emphasized in classical music.

I also seem to clap less frequently than most, so maybe I only clap on the 1s or the 3s. 'Cause I'm lazy.
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  #39  
Old 06-22-2004, 06:04 AM
rkts rkts is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easy e
[meek] I clap on the 1 and 3. Yes, I suck. However, I justify it by saying that I played in band and orchestra for years (clarinet), and in classical music, the accents are usually on the 1 and 3, so that's what I'm used to.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting you, but I don't think you quite understand this. Music doesn't emphasize either 1 and 3 or 2 and 4. It emphasizes the first of a group of beats, starting on 1; the question is the duration of that group. You may have a piece that emphasizes every other 1, or every 1, or every 1 and 3, or every 1, 2, 3, and 4; but not one that emphasizes just 2 and 4. Clapping on 2 and 4 sounds "hip" because it adds new accents to those already implied, and hence doubles the rhythm; i.e., the accents go from 1 and 3 to 1, 2, 3, and 4.

In pieces from the classical period, the rhythm varies from one point to the next. Beethoven is notorious for disruptively emphasizing offbeats to double the rhythm. An obvious example is the end of the exposition of the Fifth Symphony, where sudden sforzandi on 2 and 4 change the rhythm from accenting 1 and 3 to accenting 1, 2, 3, and 4. The G major Concerto goes from emphasizing every half note (1 and 3) at the beginning of the exposition to emphasizing every eighth note (1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &, with sforzandi on each &) at the end of the exposition.
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  #40  
Old 06-22-2004, 07:00 AM
Trunk Trunk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoClueBoy
[Queen]

stomp stomp clap

stomp stomp clap

[/Queen]
My sister lives in France. I went to visit about a month ago, and she was getting her kids (3 and 5) ready to leave for the day. Well, they love to sing, usually stuff like "its a small world" but this morning they both started walking around saying,

boom boom shack

boom boom shack

I thought they lost their minds till they started singing "we will rock you". I told my sister, "what's with the 'boom boom shak'" and she said, "what do they say in the states?"

I told her, "stomp stomp clap".

Maybe a musician could break that tune down for us squares. . .

it sounds like "we will rock you" is kind of a waltz (3/4 time -- is that what a waltz is?). The weird thing is, the guitar solo at the end seems to be in a different time signature, maybe 2/2 so that they don't really get around to emphasizing the same beat until every other measure (6 beats in one, 4 beats in the other).

(every bit of that might be completely wrong, but that's what it all sounds like to me)
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  #41  
Old 06-22-2004, 08:17 AM
Salem Salem is offline
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[Theory 101 hijack]

In 4/4 timing, there are 4 equal beats per measure:

0 0 0 0 | 0 0 0 0 (two measures with each 0 representing a quarter note)

A whole note holds for the entire four beats. A half note holds for two beats. An eighth note is twice as fast as a quarter note:

oo oo oo oo| oo oo oo oo (eighth notes)

A 16th is four times faster

.... .... .... ....|.... .... .... .... (16th notes)



In the Queen song, the fourth beat is silent, giving the third beat the emphasis. The rhythm is in 8th notes

Stomp, Stomp, Clap, (pause).
Stomp, stomp, Clap, (pause).

We will we will | r u
o o o o o o o o | o o o o o o o o
----------------------| s s cla s s clap

It's hard to do the visual here. Hope that makes some sense.
[/Theory hijack 101]
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  #42  
Old 06-22-2004, 08:48 AM
Musicat Musicat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk
I thought they lost their minds till they started singing "we will rock you". I told my sister, "what's with the 'boom boom shak'" and she said, "what do they say in the states?"

I told her, "stomp stomp clap".
I'm not sure that's what they SAY in the states, but is typically what they DO, at least in sports venues. Two stomps (feet on floor) followed by a clapping of hands. As far as illustrating the actual sound, the French version makes more sense!
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  #43  
Old 06-22-2004, 08:59 AM
Zebra Zebra is online now
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It depends on the song, well actually it depends on how the song is being performed. Some songs punch 1 and 3, while others 2 & 4. A friend of mine once sung the opening theme to the Jeffersons (Well, we're moving on up!) but instead of singing it in the black gospel style he sung it like a Protestant Hymn and it was very funny. But then again he and I are both trained musicains so we can clap either way.

A few years back the musical How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying was revived on Broadway. At the end of the show there is a song called The Brotherhood of Man. The song starts with all the men singing. Later the secretaries join in lead by a gospel/bluesy singer, who also happens to be black. Anyway at one point of the song the men clap on 1 and 3 and she stops them and shows them how to clap on 2 and 4.

Of course the real answer is that you clap on 1 and 3 and you snap your fingers on 2 & 4.
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  #44  
Old 06-22-2004, 05:32 PM
Biffy the Elephant Shrew Biffy the Elephant Shrew is online now
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The only reason I would clap along in the first place is if the performer starts it. Then I would clap the same way he claps.

Now do you tap your toes or beat time with your heel?
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  #45  
Old 06-23-2004, 01:02 AM
dnooman dnooman is offline
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Location: Columbus, Ohio
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Maroon 5's "This Love" is very heavy on the 1, with a slight accent on the4 and the & of 4. This would work well for you silly 1 3 clappers.
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  #46  
Old 06-23-2004, 06:47 PM
sidle sidle is offline
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dnooman-

OOOOO-excellent song to work with!

For SURE I'm not clapping on this or love.

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