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  #1  
Old 07-30-2004, 04:06 PM
astro astro is offline
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eBay kicked back my lawn darts (Jarts) listing. Is it actually illegal to sell these?

I found a virgn, new in the box, unused set of lawn darts (JARTS) and thinking how popular they are as a collectible I spent some time taking pics and prepping the listing, only to have eBay tell me that I couldn't list it and if I tried I might get my account "reviewed".

Here is a pic of the Jarts

Here was my listing text .

Quote:
Yes indeed! These are the deadly "put your eye out" kind. Appear to be new in box and unused. Comes with jarts, 2 rings. box and instructions. All items appear to be in brand new and unused condition.

You are bidding on a NEW IN PACKAGE REGENT “SLIDER” JARTS LAWN DARTS GAME (Model 01-73930). JARTS is an outdoor skill game for ADULTS ONLY. This vintage game comes to you in its ORIGINAL BOX and COMPLETE with four “SLIDER” JARTS and two target rings. The sliding design fin slides back automatically for ore accurate flight. This set of Slider JARTS is for the Vintage Game collector. Game play can be quite dangerous, and even deadly! Renegade game play is at your own risk!!
Here is what eBay said -

Quote:
Recalled Item Alert - Lawn Darts

If you are listing lawn darts, commonly referred to as Jarts, your auction will be ended and your account reviewed for further action. eBay does not allow the sale of items that have been recalled by the Consumer Product Safety Commission and eBay cooperates fully with the CPSC in the investigation of sales of such items. The CPSC has determined that these items are extremely dangerous to children and banned the sale of these items in 1988. More information regarding these items can be found at the following link:

CPSC Web Site
Now, I know (now) that eBay does not approve, but are these Jarts actually illegal to sell or not, possibly on some other web auction service?
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  #2  
Old 07-30-2004, 04:11 PM
stpauler stpauler is offline
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According to jarts.com yup:
Quote:
WARNING: Lawn Jarts have been banned for manufacturing and resale in the United States. The government of the United States has asked that all Jarts be destroyed. In no way do we encourage or condone children using Jarts. Injuries from Lawn Jarts can result in serious injury or possibly even death. Those who play in this tournament are aware of the dangers of using Lawn Jarts and choose to take on the responsibilities associated with this sport.
I saw the following on a website, but that website also gave instruction how to construct them so I won't link to it:
Quote:
Back in '87, a child suffered a fatal blow from a lawn dart, and her father lobbied Congress until they were declared illegal in 1989.
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  #3  
Old 07-30-2004, 04:14 PM
FatBaldGuy FatBaldGuy is offline
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I followed the link to the CPSC site in your post and did a search on "lawn darts." The first item on the list was CPSC bans Lawn Darts.

Quote:
Effective December 19, 1988, all lawn darts are banned from sale in the United States. Lawn darts, used in an outdoor game have been responsible for the deaths of 3 children.
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  #4  
Old 07-30-2004, 04:19 PM
astro astro is offline
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Thanks for the heads up! Looks like I own an illegal Box o' Jarts.

Time for mischief!
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  #5  
Old 07-30-2004, 04:20 PM
stpauler stpauler is offline
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Here's a bit more info:
Quote:
ollowing Recent Injury CPSC Reissues Warning: Lawn Darts Are Banned and Should Be Destroyed
WASHINGTON, D.C. - After a recent serious injury caused by a lawn dart, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission reissued its warning that lawn darts are banned and should be destroyed. Effective on December 19, 1988, CPSC banned the sale of all lawn darts in the United States. Pointed lawn darts, intended for use in an outdoor game, have been responsible for the deaths of three children. The most recent injury occurred last week in Elkhart, Ind., when a 7-year-old boy suffered a brain injury after a lawn dart pierced his skull.
Skull!!!! Ouch!!!
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  #6  
Old 07-30-2004, 05:26 PM
FisherQueen FisherQueen is offline
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I have to say that I'm amazed that only three children have been killed by Jarts. Those were some seriously lethal toys.
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  #7  
Old 07-30-2004, 05:37 PM
Sigene Sigene is online now
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I looked for Jarts on eBay about a month ago..THere were lots of them for sale. But they all said something along the lines of being "collectors items" only.."not for use". (I haven't looked again though to verify if they were still there....sorry...I'm lazy).
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  #8  
Old 07-30-2004, 05:41 PM
Kinthalis Kinthalis is online now
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So what makes this dangerous? Is the purpose to strike your opponent with one? I can't think of another reason why they should be banned.

Jeeze, I practice historical martial arts which includes sparring and practicing tecnique with blunted and sharp steel swords. Obviously not the kind of thing kids should be involved with, will they outlaw swords too?
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  #9  
Old 07-30-2004, 05:43 PM
Hostile Dialect Hostile Dialect is offline
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Perhaps in the future you'll have more luck if you don't draw attention to the fact that the product you're selling has the capacity to put peoples' eyes out. That's what stood out to me when I read the description you posted on Ebay, anyway.
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  #10  
Old 07-30-2004, 05:45 PM
Kinthalis Kinthalis is online now
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Oops, pressed submit too soon.

I wanted to say, that archery would also fall into the same category, no? I'm sure people have gotten hurt practicing archery, what's the difference?
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  #11  
Old 07-30-2004, 05:45 PM
astro astro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigene
I looked for Jarts on eBay about a month ago..THere were lots of them for sale. But they all said something along the lines of being "collectors items" only.."not for use". (I haven't looked again though to verify if they were still there....sorry...I'm lazy).
I looked in active and completed sales. There were Jart t-shirts and stuff, but no actual jarts (that I could find).
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  #12  
Old 07-30-2004, 05:55 PM
legion legion is offline
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Does it say anywhere on the packaging "Made In Iraq"? Only, you know, these could be what everyone has been looking for for so long.
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  #13  
Old 07-30-2004, 06:04 PM
PaulFitzroy PaulFitzroy is offline
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It's so stupid that they ban things because dumbass kids get hurt using them irresponsibly, or because stupid people insist on playing near kids. It's the same argument made by people insisting on handgun bans because children "accidentally" shoot their friends. A lot of dumbass kids are out there who have been raised on retarded TV shows, don't know how to read, think Power Rangers are real and think that a pretend Superman cape will make them fly; these kids should not be allowed to play with lawn darts. Furthermore people shouldn't be throwing these things while little kids are running around on the lawn in front of them.

Christ Almighty, when will people get some common sense? We live in a country where there are warning labels on every damn thing because some ASSHOLE out there hurt himself sticking a curling iron up his ass and takes it upon himself to sue the company that made it, thereby forcing them to treat all consumers like idiots and put warning labels all over everything. It's enough to make me want to move to the goddam sahara desert.
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2004, 06:05 PM
GorillaMan GorillaMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinthalis
I wanted to say, that archery would also fall into the same category, no? I'm sure people have gotten hurt practicing archery, what's the difference?
My WAG is that the illegality is selling them as toys. The same as selling a toy car painted with lead paint would be illegal, but selling an antique diecast car in the same paint at an antique fair is legal.

And although obvioulsy with tongue-in-cheek, the OP did describe the objects as potentially dangerous. That'd be enough for the eBay legal boys to have a heart attack if legal action occured.
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  #15  
Old 07-30-2004, 06:27 PM
Kinthalis Kinthalis is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GorillaMan
My WAG is that the illegality is selling them as toys. The same as selling a toy car painted with lead paint would be illegal, but selling an antique diecast car in the same paint at an antique fair is legal.
Ok, THIS I understand. Selling them as toys, and not labeling them properly as an adult game only is wrong.

But why BAN them. Did the government ask the people selling these things to label them as for adults only with all the warnings attached? Did they tell them not to sell the product to toy departments?

If they did and they said "no", ok, ban them, but I doubt the company would have prefered that to simply changing the label!
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  #16  
Old 07-30-2004, 06:45 PM
Mangetout Mangetout is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinthalis
So what makes this dangerous? Is the purpose to strike your opponent with one? I can't think of another reason why they should be banned.

Jeeze, I practice historical martial arts which includes sparring and practicing tecnique with blunted and sharp steel swords. Obviously not the kind of thing kids should be involved with, will they outlaw swords too?
They are dangerous because the whole idea is that you're meant to throw them quite a long distance on a high trajectory, leaving ample time for some hapless bystander to position himself in the path; because they come more or less straight down, most injuries are going to be head injuries and serious ones at that. I take it that when you practice your swordplay, your opponent is at least aware of the potential for danger.

People look around themselves, but they don't look up a lot; they'd be more likely to spot someone practicing archery (or spot the target, if there was one), than they would notice a silent dart falling from almost directly above them.
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2004, 06:52 PM
scr4 scr4 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinthalis
Did the government ask the people selling these things to label them as for adults only with all the warnings attached?
If you look at OP's photo, the box is clearly marked as "for adults only" and "may cause serious or fatal injury."

This blogger (?) claims it's technically illegal to even play with them.
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  #18  
Old 07-30-2004, 07:06 PM
Balthisar Balthisar is offline
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astro -- if my email to you doesn't make it through the spam filter, email me.
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  #19  
Old 07-30-2004, 07:14 PM
GorillaMan GorillaMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangetout
People look around themselves, but they don't look up a lot; they'd be more likely to spot someone practicing archery (or spot the target, if there was one), than they would notice a silent dart falling from almost directly above them.
There's also standard procedures for any respectable archer, to ensure the neighbour's kid doesn't wander into the danger zone, which are hammered into anybody in their first archery class (or at least should be). I doubt comparable guidelines exist for Jarts.

I'm confident that these things would be classifiable as dangerous/offensive weapons in many places.
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  #20  
Old 07-30-2004, 07:22 PM
Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor is offline
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I wonder if selling curare poisoned blowgun darts on E-bay would be legal?
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  #21  
Old 07-30-2004, 07:58 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legion
Does it say anywhere on the packaging "Made In Iraq"? Only, you know, these could be what everyone has been looking for for so long.
Well, the thing about lawn darts is that they're like a six-pound sledgehammer sharpened to a point, but really only dangerous if you overshoot the target and hit someone.

Yes, they're weapons of miss destruction.


This does remind me, though, of one of my favourite lines from the movie Drop Dead Gorgeous.
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  #22  
Old 07-30-2004, 08:07 PM
pravnik pravnik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulFitzroy
It's so stupid that they ban things because dumbass kids get hurt using them irresponsibly, or because stupid people insist on playing near kids. It's the same argument made by people insisting on handgun bans because children "accidentally" shoot their friends. A lot of dumbass kids are out there who have been raised on retarded TV shows, don't know how to read, think Power Rangers are real and think that a pretend Superman cape will make them fly; these kids should not be allowed to play with lawn darts. Furthermore people shouldn't be throwing these things while little kids are running around on the lawn in front of them.

Christ Almighty, when will people get some common sense? We live in a country where there are warning labels on every damn thing because some ASSHOLE out there hurt himself sticking a curling iron up his ass and takes it upon himself to sue the company that made it, thereby forcing them to treat all consumers like idiots and put warning labels all over everything. It's enough to make me want to move to the goddam sahara desert.
I's a sharp, weighted toy designed and intended to be thrown up in the air. If a company markets a curling iron designed and intended to be stuck up the ass I would not be opposed to a ban.

Incidentally, I also supported the bans on Mainway's Invisible Pedestrian, Johnny Switchblade, and Bag O' Broken Glass children's toys.
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  #23  
Old 07-30-2004, 08:17 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pravnik
Incidentally, I also supported the bans on Mainway's Invisible Pedestrian, Johnny Switchblade, and Bag O' Broken Glass children's toys.
Just watch out for those foam rubber balls and toy telephones. Those things'll kill you in a heartbeat.
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  #24  
Old 07-30-2004, 08:22 PM
samclem samclem is offline
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[Mod hat on]

PaulFitzroy. This is GQ, but perhaps you forgot. Don't forget again.

Rants belong in the BBQ PIt or open up a debate. But don't do it here.

[Mod hat off]

samclem GQ Moderator
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  #25  
Old 07-30-2004, 08:38 PM
Uvula Donor Uvula Donor is offline
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Actually, it's very common for eBay to ban listings of items which have been deemed "unsafe".

Not very long ago, I listed an antique Lane cedar chest. The lock on the chest was broken and it could NOT be locked, a fact I noted in my listing. Nevertheless, eBay cancelled it because all Lane cedar chests are subject to a recall - apparently, their old-style lock automatically latches when the lid is closed and people have suffocated in them. I would only be allowed to re-list the chest if I replaced the lock and included a copy of the replacement documentation in my listing.
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  #26  
Old 07-30-2004, 09:33 PM
PaulFitzroy PaulFitzroy is offline
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Quote:
PaulFitzroy. This is GQ, but perhaps you forgot. Don't forget again.
I apologize. I thought I was in Great Debates here. Sorry!
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  #27  
Old 07-30-2004, 09:41 PM
Kinthalis Kinthalis is online now
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Ok, The high arch trajectory would worry me. I still don't see how they should be BANNEd though. Guns are 10 times more dangerous, last I checked not everyone that handles them knows proper gun safety. And although you can't shoot things in your backyard, you could go to a shooting range to shoot.

Hmmmm Maybe a Jarts range?
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  #28  
Old 07-30-2004, 10:45 PM
hammerbach hammerbach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinthalis

...Hmmmm Maybe a Jarts range?
Good luck insuring THAT one. <Rant deleted>
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  #29  
Old 07-31-2004, 12:46 AM
Rikster Rikster is offline
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"They are dangerous because the whole idea is that you're meant to throw them quite a long distance on a high trajectory, leaving ample time for some hapless bystander to position himself in the path; because they come more or less straight down, most injuries are going to be head injuries and serious ones at that."
sounds like horseshoes or quaits(sp) to me, my brother got zonked on the head some years ago by a horseshoe, he couldn't be the only one; plenty of listings on ebay though. have to admit though lawndarts seem a bit more dangerous
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  #30  
Old 07-31-2004, 07:06 AM
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
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My first thought:

"Oh, damn, I loved playing Jarts as a kid!" (yes, I really did!)

My second thought:

"I can buy a high-powered rifle designed and built to kill things but I can't by Jarts anymore?" Now, does that make sense...?
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  #31  
Old 07-31-2004, 08:25 AM
Johnny L.A. Johnny L.A. is offline
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You can buy Jarts on eBay if you're quick enough. You have to find a listing, then contact the seller before the listing gets banned.

But the seller runs a couple of risks. First, he is in violation of the law. Second, it anyone is injured by the Jarts he sold, then he could be open to a lawsuit.

Say, I'm going to a party next week. Maybe I should bring my Jarts?
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  #32  
Old 07-31-2004, 09:41 AM
vetbridge vetbridge is offline
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I loooved playing lawn darts when I was a kid. Luckily, I was always on the throwing team. The problems I have seen/heard about all seem to have involved the catching team.
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  #33  
Old 07-31-2004, 09:54 AM
LSLGuy LSLGuy is offline
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Broomstick,

It makes perfect sense, once you understand the political power of an obsessed grieving parent.

You put on a few tearful press conferences, particularly about 4 months before an election and it's trivial to get a rider hung on a bill and slipped through Congress.

What politician about to face the voters wouldn't want to be part of something to "prevent tragic accidents & needless injuries to our most precious possessions, our children", ideally with the TV ad voiceover done by a darling 7-year old with a lisp?

It is to vomit, but it is the way our world works.
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