How much of our money goes to taxes??

[Boy Scout11]

How much of our money goes to taxes and from what source do you believe. Maybe some of you recently saw someone describing the pitfalls of a national sales tax. In that piece, the criticisims of what will happen and what it will cost, almost surely prove how much we pay at present, to keep our government officials in the lap of luxury, while they throw away our hard earned money and at the same moment, they say we pay the least in taxes. LOL

[SentientMeat]

These kinds of statistics are always themselves subject to debate, but anyhoo:

Budget revenue per capita.

(I'm sure there are better statistics around.) The general consensus is that the US does have a lower rate of tax than other industrialised democracies. My own view is that this 'penny pinching' attitude means that the US is getting vastly less value from what it spends its taxes on.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by SentientMeat

The general consensus is that the US does have a lower rate of tax than other industrialised democracies. My own view is that this 'penny pinching' attitude means that the US is getting vastly less value from what it spends its taxes on.

Do you know if that includes ALL taxes (state and local) or just federal?

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

How much of our money goes to taxes and from what source do you believe. Maybe some of you recently saw someone describing the pitfalls of a national sales tax. In that piece, the criticisims of what will happen and what it will cost, almost surely prove how much we pay at present, to keep our government officials in the lap of luxury, while they throw away our hard earned money and at the same moment, they say we pay the least in taxes. LOL

You might want to explore the GQ forum (for questions with a factual answer) and the BBQ Pit (for ranting). Your OP is a combo of those two.

Why don't you give us your stats to back up your claim instead of just a "LOL"...

[Boy Scout11]

Originally Posted by SentientMeat

These kinds of statistics are always themselves subject to debate, but anyhoo:

Budget revenue per capita.

(I'm sure there are better statistics around.) The general consensus is that the US does have a lower rate of tax than other industrialised democracies. My own view is that this 'penny pinching' attitude means that the US is getting vastly less value from what it spends its taxes on.

This is really funny, when the Syndicate allows this much to be told, to keep the consumption tax from going thru. Would they not be liable for such ignorance, if his words were false? If that is true, you will see where he shows that with such a tax, that to equal what we have now, we as Americans would have to pay much more that 50% at the point of the sale, so in essence, he is saying, that Americans right now, are paying way more than 50% in taxes, while this government makes it seem far less and this government claims we pay the least in taxes, by comparison to countries with national health care and their citizens for years have had at least a months vacation every year and many other such things. Hey, lets not forget that we pay somewhere near 3 times the rate for drugs.

[SentientMeat]

Could you say that again, a little more coherently? I hesitate to ask in case I am compelled to invest in aluminium foil haberdashery, but who is the Syndicate?

[SentientMeat]

Do you know if that includes ALL taxes (state and local) or just federal?

I'm not sure, JM - I do know that UK VAT and Council Tax are very high also by comparison. I'd be very surprised if our overall tax rates were that similar.

[Boy Scout11]

Originally Posted by SentientMeat

Could you say that again, a little more coherently? I hesitate to ask in case I am compelled to invest in aluminium foil haberdashery, but who is the Syndicate?

LOL, creators syndicate. They hearld such writers and journalists, such as, Bruce Bartlett, Molly Ivans and a host of other journalists. Their works are syndicated thruout the national media.

[SentientMeat]

I see. And what is their central premise? Do you agree with it? Why do you LOL so much?

[pervert]

Your cite, SentientMeat apears to be only the federal budget (click on the Unites States link and you'll see it is based on a roughly 2 trillion dollar budget). According to what I have seen (cites below) the States take a similar bite out of the economy. So, the feds take roughly 20% and the states take roughly another 20%. However, there may be similar issues with the numbers calculated for the other countries.

This OECD cite shows teh United States at 29th with tax revenues of 31% of GDP and expenditures at 36%of GDP.

Having looked up this cite, however, I am not inclined to continue a discussion of the "syndicate".

[Boy Scout11]

Originally Posted by SentientMeat

I see. And what is their central premise? Do you agree with it? Why do you LOL so much?

Bartlett claims we pay much more than 50% in taxes right now and he further details that, by how much we would have to pay at the point of sale, if we had a consumptive tax.

I enjoy laughing, that's why the LOL.

[SentientMeat]

So you are suggesting that after income tax, property tax and tax on purchases, everyone in the idustrialised democratic world actually pays about the same level of tax? Help us out here: What is your position for debate?

[Captain Amazing]

Originally Posted by SentientMeat

I see. And what is their central premise? Do you agree with it? Why do you LOL so much?

I think he's talking about Bruce Bartlett's opinion column today.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/b...20040810.shtml

Bartlett is comparing US and European economic figures and argues that Europe lags behind the US, because Europeans work less hours, and Europeans work less because European tax rates are so much higher. Therefore, there's no benefit to the employee in working longer hours. I think that's what Boyscout is talking about when he mentions Bartlett in post 5.

As for the Creator's Syndicate, while Bartlett is a member, and while most of the columnists who are members of the Creator's Syndicate tend to be right wing, the syndicate just handles licensing and negotiates with newspapers for its members. It doesn't have any control over the content of comics or opinion pieces, so I don't know why they were even mentioned. Here's their website, if you're interested, though.

www.creators.com

[SentientMeat]

Europe lags behind the US, because Europeans work less hours

That's lagging behind?

LOL!

[Captain Amazing]

Originally Posted by SentientMeat

That's lagging behind?

I'm sorry, I phrased it incorrectly. He means lagging behind in productivity and per capita income, and that the reason this is the case is because of shorter working hours.

[Boy Scout11]

Originally Posted by Captain Amazing

I'm sorry, I phrased it incorrectly. He means lagging behind in productivity and per capita income, and that the reason this is the case is because of shorter working hours.

That's only part of it. The other part is, that we pay far more than 50% in taxes and we pay at least 3 times more for our medicine. This government does not give out the actual amount we pay in taxes, so as to hide the realities from the public. In other words, the government lies again and again and again and again, to the destruction of the US and when it happens, it will come as a storm, all at once and all these lying experts, will have helped to destroy this entire nation. Thinking of you for one, Jurph. LOL

[Boy Scout11]

Addendum!

By the way, the entire state of Israel is a welfare state and we give them 14,000 of aid for each and every family in that country.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

we pay far more than 50% in taxes...

We'll need a cite for that, and while you're at, how about at least giving a precise number. How much more than 50% do we pay?

No one here will debate you unless you support your claims with factual evidence.

[zev_steinhardt]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

Addendum!

By the way, the entire state of Israel is a welfare state and we give them 14,000 of aid for each and every family in that country.

Oh, for heaven's sake. Neurotik showed that to be false (along with many other statements of yours) in this thread (post #65).

Zev Steinhardt

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

Addendum!

By the way, the entire state of Israel is a welfare state and we give them 14,000 of aid for each and every family in that country.

I was wondering when you'd get around to blaming things on "the Jews". You'll beed something a little more origianl than that. Do you think it hasn't been tried around here before?

[Boy Scout11]

Originally Posted by John Mace

I was wondering when you'd get around to blaming things on "the Jews". You'll beed something a little more origianl than that. Do you think it hasn't been tried around here before?

I am constantly reminded everyday, that this government lies and covers it up, while we, the hard working are taxed to death and pay for such foolishness and stupidity by this government, while not one national news organization, carried Jimmy Carters address at the Democratic convention claiming that Israel makes our Middle East policy and we give them all that money. Can you say, the Jewish leadership in this country controlls our media and Middle East policy that kills our soldiers, makes all of our people hated by the rest of the world and will not send their soldiers into the field of battle.

Can you say that our non Jewish leaders are not just as bad for selling themselves for votes and giving away trillions in foreign aid, forgiving foreign debt and running this entire nations children into debt.

How about ouyr so called retired leaders from congress, that go to work for private co's. and get no bid contracts, or Enron, where our government looked the other way on price fixing, or the thousands of other little and big nasties by this so called leadership. The so called non Jewish leadership in this country bears just as much as the Jewish leadership in this country and I have never once just blamed the Jewish leadership, so stuff it.

[Jurph]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

This is really funny, when the Syndicate allows this much to be told, to keep the consumption tax from going thru.

Don't you see? This is the classic ruse: they're trying to hide the cause and the effect from you. A tax on individuals with consumption unnecessarily burdens the poor. Consumption, also known as tuberculosis, is much more prevalent in countries like Russia, where most economic activity is controlled by crime syndicates. So you see, the syndicates are actually against the tax, too!

Would they not be liable for such ignorance, if his words were false?

They're only liable if it's libel, but slander is grander. Happily, we live--or at least I live--in America. You can say whatever you want, no matter how ignorant, and your only liability is that some people (those heartless bastards) will ridicule your ignorance.

If that is true, you will see where he shows that with such a tax, that to equal what we have now, we as Americans would have to pay much more that 50% at the point of the sale, so in essence, he is saying, that Americans right now, are paying way more than 50% in taxes,

Alright, let's cut to the chase. I didn't bring my Arabian Horse into this thread, so I can't keep up with you if you're going to go tear-assing around like that. You should be wearing a helmet. No, I mean, you should provide me a cite so I can read through his logic.

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

...while this government makes it seem far less and this government claims we pay the least in taxes, by comparison to countries with national health care and their citizens for years have had at least a months vacation every year and many other such things.

It's the strangest damn thing. We don't have to spend money for national health care or subsidized vacation, so we pay less in taxes. You're right, though. With less money in and less money going out, this government does make it seem far less.

Wait, when did they claim we paid the least in taxes? Uh-huh? No, no, I was hoping you could provide a cite from another source. They're the bracket keys -- you just put them around a URL and it practically cites itself.

Hey, lets not forget that we pay somewhere near 3 times the rate for drugs.

What you pay your dealer is no business of mine.

I'll be back in a moment to finish this argument; see, there's this guy over in another thread who thinks... nah, never mind, you'd never believe it anyway.

[Captain Amazing]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

while not one national news organization, carried Jimmy Carters address at the Democratic convention claiming that Israel makes our Middle East policy and we give them all that money. Can you say, the Jewish leadership in this country controlls our media and Middle East policy that kills our soldiers, makes all of our people hated by the rest of the world and will not send their soldiers into the field of battle.

Except, again, as Neurotik showed in the other thread, Carter didn't say that. And do you have any evidence that the Jewish leadership in this country controls our media and Middle East policy?

I don't even know who "the Jewish leadership" is. It's not like Jews are a particularly regimented or uniform group. It's like that old joke. Two Jews are stranded on a deserted island, so they build three synagogues, one that the first one will go to, one that the second one will go to, and the third that neither of them would be caught dead in.

[Boy Scout11]

[quote=Jurph]Don't you see? This is the classic ruse: they're trying to hide the cause and the effect from you. A tax on individuals with consumption unnecessarily burdens the poor. Consumption, also known as tuberculosis, is much more prevalent in countries like Russia, where most economic activity is controlled by crime syndicates. So you see, the syndicates are actually against the tax, too!



They're only liable if it's libel, but slander is grander. Happily, we live--or at least I live--in America. You can say whatever you want, no matter how ignorant, and your only liability is that some people (those heartless bastards) will ridicule your ignorance.



Alright, let's cut to the chase. I didn't bring my Arabian Horse into this thread, so I can't keep up with you if you're going to go tear-assing around like that. You should be wearing a helmet. No, I mean, you should provide me a cite so I can read through his logic.

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.



It's the strangest damn thing. We don't have to spend money for national health care or subsidized vacation, so we pay less in taxes. You're right, though. With less money in and less money going out, this government does make it seem far less.

Wait, when did they claim we paid the least in taxes? Uh-huh? No, no, I was hoping you could provide a cite from another source. They're the bracket keys -- you just put them around a URL and it practically cites itself.



What you pay your dealer is no business of mine.
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I didn't think you would address Carters speech and why the national news media decided not to pick it up, as well as other things I spoke of, like this governments constant lying and covering it up. How about propaganda, the kind that you do here constantly. When this country falls hard, I hope someone comes knocking on your door first you anti American. Get lost

[Jurph]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

I didn't think you would address Carters speech and why the national news media decided not to pick it up,

Which speech? Could you please, please, pretty please with Arabian Hurricane Maple Syrup on top, provide a URL link to his speech?

as well as other things I spoke of, like this governments constant lying and covering it up.

I tried to address all of your points, but there were just so many of them. I had to pick and choose.

How about propaganda, the kind that you do here constantly.

It's not propaganda; it's ridicule. This is Great Debates. We're trying to have intelligent discourse here. A few of the things that help that along are

- coherently stating your argument
- using the URL tag to provide citations from reputable sources
and
- bringing the components of your argument together using logic

So far, you have not done any of these. You're still back at the "making assertions" step. When challenged, you appear only to make more assertions, raving less and less coherently about Jews and lies and so on.

When this country falls hard, I hope someone comes knocking on your door first you anti American.

I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense. You, on the other hand, have stooped to name-calling and personal insults in the Great Debates forum. Stick to the argument at hand.

Get lost.

When you're hosting the debate, that's a danger I face every moment.

[Captain Amazing]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

I didn't think you would address Carters speech and why the national news media decided not to pick it up, as well as other things I spoke of, like this governments constant lying and covering it up.

I did also want to point out that Carter's speech was shown on C-Span, which showed all of the convention speeches. You can also find a copy of it on the Washington Post's website:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jul26.html

Or the website of the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/26/po...efd430&ei=5070

I haven't checked yet, but I also have a feeling you could find it on the websites of the Chicago Tribune and the L.A. Times. That's a lot of coverage by the national news media for a speech they didn't pick up.

[Boy Scout11]

Originally Posted by Jurph

Which speech? Could you please, please, pretty please with Arabian Hurricane Maple Syrup on top, provide a URL link to his speech?



I tried to address all of your points, but there were just so many of them. I had to pick and choose.



It's not propaganda; it's ridicule. This is Great Debates. We're trying to have intelligent discourse here. A few of the things that help that along are

- coherently stating your argument
- using the URL tag to provide citations from reputable sources
and
- bringing the components of your argument together using logic

So far, you have not done any of these. You're still back at the "making assertions" step. When challenged, you appear only to make more assertions, raving less and less coherently about Jews and lies and so on.



I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense. You, on the other hand, have stooped to name-calling and personal insults in the Great Debates forum. Stick to the argument at hand.



When you're hosting the debate, that's a danger I face every moment.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With you hiding behind the flag, after your sarcasam and innuendo, aimed at me every moment, it gets kinda tough to be civil to such as you. Drop off.

[furt]

BoyScout11, I understand that you are an American, but what's your native language?

[Munch]

BoyScout, are you planning on providing any evidence, cites or concrete examples to back up your claims?

[Boy Scout11]

Originally Posted by Captain Amazing

I did also want to point out that Carter's speech was shown on C-Span, which showed all of the convention speeches. You can also find a copy of it on the Washington Post's website:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Jul26.html

Or the website of the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/26/po...efd430&ei=5070

I haven't checked yet, but I also have a feeling you could find it on the websites of the Chicago Tribune and the L.A. Times. That's a lot of coverage by the national news media for a speech they didn't pick up.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow, it looks like a glowingly edited review by those two papers, but you should have seen what MSN had to say and then, maybe we can figure out what was edited.
This is what MSN had to say,--http://slate.msn.com/id/2104411

This is why Jimmy Carter's speech from last night, which sounded (admittedly, from the cheapest of the cheap seats—two rows behind the Al Jazeera section and just above the balloon sausages tethered to the ceiling) like it emanated from a paper bag full of marbles and Jimmy Carters, was interesting less for what he said than for the reports coming from the guy behind me on his cell phone. "It's going over well on TV!" he crows to the section. The section heaves a sigh. (Everyone at this convention is on his cell phone seemingly all the time. Hopefully, one or two of us are on the phone with Kerry telling him to lose the line about being "anxious, yet sanguine.")


They chose not to print his speech.

[zev_steinhardt]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

Wow, it looks like a glowingly edited review by those two papers, but you should have seen what MSN had to say and then, maybe we can figure out what was edited.

[snip by zev_steinhardt]

They chose not to print his speech.

IOW, "everyone else tampered with the evidence (in a conspiracy run by 'those who control the media),' and even though I don't have any evidence myself, I'm going to stand by my assertion of what Carter said."

Zev Steinhardt

[jshore]

Boy Scout11: You are accomplishing something unusual here which is uniting everyone from the left-wingers to the libertarians behind an idea. And, that idea is that your threads so far have been complete tin-foil-hat-territory train-wrecks. If you want to persist in the view that you know better than anyone else what is going on in the world, you are going to have to do a lot better than you are doing...a lot better.

Just to give you some numbers on effective tax rates, here courtesy of CTJ is something showing the effective tax rates as a percent of income due to federal, state, and local taxes as a function of income quintile and such. Note that the average tax rate over all income groups is about 30%, which is in line with other estimates I've seen.

Originally Posted by Captain Amazing

I think he's talking about Bruce Bartlett's opinion column today.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/b...20040810.shtml

By the way, lest people buy into Bartlett's claims regarding the relative living standards in the U.S. and Europe, here is what Paul Krugman has noted in regards to these calculations based on averages:

Many Americans assume that because we are the richest country in the world, with real G.D.P. per capita higher than that of other major advanced countries, Americans must be better off across the board -- that it's not just our rich who are richer than their counterparts abroad, but that the typical American family is much better off than the typical family elsewhere, and that even our poor are well off by foreign standards.

But it's not true. Let me use the example of Sweden, that great conservative bete noire.

A few months ago the conservative cyberpundit Glenn Reynolds made a splash when he pointed out that Sweden's G.D.P. per capita is roughly comparable with that of Mississippi -- see, those foolish believers in the welfare state have impoverished themselves! Presumably he assumed that this means that the typical Swede is as poor as the typical resident of Mississippi, and therefore much worse off than the typical American.

But life expectancy in Sweden is about three years higher than that of the U.S. Infant mortality is half the U.S. level, and less than a third the rate in Mississippi. Functional illiteracy is much less common than in the U.S.

How is this possible? One answer is that G.D.P. per capita is in some ways a misleading measure. Swedes take longer vacations than Americans, so they work fewer hours per year. That's a choice, not a failure of economic performance. Real G.D.P. per hour worked is 16 percent lower than in the United States, which makes Swedish productivity about the same as Canada's.

But the main point is that though Sweden may have lower average income than the United States, that's mainly because our rich are so much richer. The median Swedish family has a standard of living roughly comparable with that of the median U.S. family: wages are if anything higher in Sweden, and a higher tax burden is offset by public provision of health care and generally better public services. And as you move further down the income distribution, Swedish living standards are way ahead of those in the U.S. Swedish families with children that are at the 10th percentile -- poorer than 90 percent of the population -- have incomes 60 percent higher than their U.S. counterparts. And very few people in Sweden experience the deep poverty that is all too common in the United States. One measure: in 1994 only 6 percent of Swedes lived on less than $11 per day, compared with 14 percent in the U.S.

[Jurph]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

With you hiding behind the flag, after your sarcasam and innuendo, aimed at me every moment, it gets kinda tough to be civil to such as you. Drop off.

I'm not hiding behind the flag -- I'm standing in front of it. But my military service is not the issue here. At least I don't think it is. Will you please get back to the original debate?

The proposition for debate is (I think):

"Americans pay more than 50% in taxes, despite the government's claims that the maximum tax rate is 35%."

Also open for debate (if you choose) are the following ancillary propositions:

"The Syndicate controls what you see and hear to influence whether certain legislation is passed,"

"Jurph is an anti-American despite his military service record,"

"The media (with the exception of a few major sources) failed to cover Carter's speech,"

"The Jews are to blame," and

"BoyScout11 doesn't know how to use the URL tag to cite sources."

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by jshore

Boy Scout11: You are accomplishing something unusual here which is uniting everyone from the left-wingers to the libertarians behind an idea.

Left-wingers and libertarians UNITE!

[EsotericEnigma]

Just to make it convenient for everyone involved, I'm going to make a short list of the assertions that BoyScout11 has made, so that they can be conveniently quoted and dismissed by those who follow me. I don't have any arguments to make against them, because these statements do a good enough job arguing against themselves.

1. The US pays a higher percentage of taxes than other industrialized democracies.
2. Israel is a welfare state.
3. Israel (or perhaps more appropriately, the generic "Jews") controls US foreign policy and the media.
4. "The Jews" don't send their soldiers into battle, but instead use us to fight for them.
5. Jimmy Carter's speech at the democratic convention was not published by any news agency, as part of a vast conspiracy to keep us from knowing just how much the Jews own us.
6. Anyone who thinks the above 1 through 5 are racist and just flat out incorrect is an anti American.

Have fun.

[Captain Amazing]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

Wow, it looks like a glowingly edited review by those two papers, but you should have seen what MSN had to say and then, maybe we can figure out what was edited.

Except, that MSN review doesn't say that Carter says what you assert he says. It just says that the reporter couldn't hear Carter because the guy next to him was talking in his cell phone. If you have evidence that the speech I linked to was edited prior to publication, please let me see it.

[Boy Scout11]

Originally Posted by Captain Amazing

Except, that MSN review doesn't say that Carter says what you assert he says. It just says that the reporter couldn't hear Carter because the guy next to him was talking in his cell phone. If you have evidence that the speech I linked to was edited prior to publication, please let me see it.

I am searching the web and I called the phone number to Jimmy Carter.com and spoke with a woman and she said, c span has the rights to his speech and I went to the DNC and can't find his speech there. No tellin, but I will keep looking.

[Captain Amazing]

Well, here's the C-Span link to Carter's speech. (The 7th link down...it'll open the video)

http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.a...eryText=carter

I haven't watched it yet...I don't have speakers on this computer. Can anyone tell me if there are differences from the text that I had linked to earlier?

[Munch]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

I am searching the web and I called the phone number to Jimmy Carter.com and spoke with a woman and she said, c span has the rights to his speech and I went to the DNC and can't find his speech there. No tellin, but I will keep looking.

After finding out that C-Span has the rights to the speech, why would you go to DNC.com and not go to cspan.com?!?

I'll ask you again, BoyScout: are you going to provide any evidence or citation for your opening argument? Are you going to make an actual argument, or are you going to remain vague and non-specific?

[Jonathan Chance]

Again, I'm a Jew...and I'm in the (print) media.

I love being all-powerful. Give me a dollar.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance

Again, I'm a Jew...and I'm in the (print) media.

I love being all-powerful. Give me a dollar.

Dammit. I tried to resist, but the dollar is on its way.

Man, this cracked me up...

[Boy Scout11]

Try to draw someone else out girls. I have been very specific, but it seems you girls are unable to comprehend. LOL

[Munch]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

Try to draw someone else out girls. I have been very specific, but it seems you girls are unable to comprehend. LOL

Please direct me to one specific item, backed by citation, that you have made in this thread.

[Leonard]

It never ceases to amaze me what the human mind is capable of constructing when one presupposes something to be true and goes hunting for the evidence to support it.

[Boy Scout11]

Originally Posted by Munch

Please direct me to one specific item, backed by citation, that you have made in this thread.

Why? If it were here, you wouldn't understand it. Much is here and you can't understand common sense, so there is no need to feed into your ignorance.

[Boy Scout11]

Originally Posted by Leonard

It never ceases to amaze me what the human mind is capable of constructing when one presupposes something to be true and goes hunting for the evidence to support it.

Aww geeze Leanord, ya just missed the whole thing, but hey, ya got to come in at the last moment and throw your two cents in, without having to add anything to the debate. Pride Leanord, that's what you've got, be proud.

[John Mace]

Originally Posted by Munch

Please direct me to one specific item, backed by citation, that you have made in this thread.

Boy Scout comes from the Aldebaran school of debating: My post is my cite.

[Munch]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

Why? If it were here, you wouldn't understand it. .

So you admit you're just posting to raise our rackles, with nary a scrap of evidence? Well done.

Goodbye.

[furt]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

Try to draw someone else out girls. I have been very specific, but it seems you girls are unable to comprehend.

Oooohhhh .... he called all y'all girls. The ultimate putdown, that.

Of course, I suppose it never occured to him that some of the folks doing the mocking might in fact be female...

[Captain Amazing]

Originally Posted by Boy Scout11

Try to draw someone else out girls. I have been very specific, but it seems you girls are unable to comprehend. LOL

First of all, I'm a guy. Secondly, I would still like to hear what you claim President Carter said in his convention speech. If he did actually say that American Middle-Eastern policy is controlled by Jews, there would have to be some record of that. Certainly, when Congressman Moran from Virginia said something similar a year ago, that was reported.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer

And Moran just said that to about 120 people. If you're correct, Carter would have said that to the entire convention, plus people at home watching, plus all the media representatives covering the convention. Certainly, if nothing else, Carter would have been criticized by Jewish organizations and the Republican party.

Great Debates is for debating. If you state a position on here, it's going to be challenged, and people are going to argue against it. Unfortunately, in this thread, for example, you don't seem to be willing to support your position with either facts or logical inference, and you seem to want people to accept controversial statements you make, without any support for them. That really isn't acceptable on these boards. I think you'll find that people are more willing to listen to what you have to say if, instead of insulting people who disagree with you or ask you questions, you treat them respectfully, and support your assertions with facts.