People who keep aging/sick animals alive ...I pit you. ( New Improved Lameness)

[Shirley Ujest]

There is a mom of a friend who has an 18 year old tea cup poodle named Peanut.

Peanut cannot see, chew, walk, lay down without assistance and has a host of maladies that make a person wince when the Mom lists them.

The dog was ready to give up the ghost when I first met him three years ago, now, Peanut is just being kept alive because Mommie cannot let go. His vet bill alone is higher than my family bill of humans for the doctor. I know, she told me, and I just got over being pretty sick.

And, FTR, the friend (Peanut's moms daughter) is another one who takes in deranged, physcotic semi-feral cats who hate everyone, everything and every cat that needs buttloads of Vet bills and pocket fulls of mula to keep them from barfing, bleeding, killing everything. But she can't get rid of them ( to some other house ) because she's too kind hearted. she's such a milktoast. Nice, but GAH!!!!!!!!! I won't let my kids play at her house because the cats all hate kids and my kids love cats.

Please, for the sake of all things humane, we cannot euthanize humans when they are desperately old, a decaying shell of their former selves with nothing left upstairs or in a tremendous amount of incurable, irreversable pain, but you can do this for your pet. It may be hard, but your pet relies on you to have a voice and make sound judgement for their needs and wants. Keeping it alive when it is time for it to go is a selfish, selfish, selfish thing to do. A life toothless, unable to walk, see, poo, sit, or laydown without assistance, with a body riddled with pain is no life at all.

I can only hope that Peanut dies a peaceful death and is reincarnated as the future health care worker who will take care of you in your last long days at Shady Meadows Retirement Gardens.




This is no slam on the health care workers.

[Archergal]

I don't know if the issue is as clear-cut as you make it sound. I have a couple of aging dogs. One is in the early stages of kidney failure. I give her subcutaneous fluids once a week to keep her feeling better. I know she's getting deaf and arthritic, but she still eats well, and enjoys going outside and watching the world go by. I've had a dog with severe epileptic seizures. We spent a lot of money and time finding the right balance of medication to keep her mostly seizure-free. It was worth it -- she'd been seizure-free for almost a year when we lost her to cancer.

Lots of folks say the animals will let you know when they're ready to go. I haven't had to make the decision to have an animal euthanized yet. I hope I'm wise enough to know when the time is right. But I'm not going to put an animal down just because it gets old. No way.

[Lissa]

Originally Posted by Archergal

But I'm not going to put an animal down just because it gets old. No way.

I don't think Shirley was suggesting you euthanize an animal just because it gets old. It sounds like poor Peanut is suffering.

You've got to consider the quality of the life the animal is leading. If a pet can still get around well, seems happy and relatively pain-free, there's no reason to put it down, but once they stop enjoying life because of pain, it's time to let them go.

A friend of ours has a dog like that. Mostly blind, with stiff, painful joints. You can't pet her because of the tumors on her back that cause her pain when touched. It tears at my heart every time I see this dog because I know she's miserable. She should have been euathanized a long time ago.

My dog, at eight, is getting older, and I see signs of discomfort in her joints. She still seems happy, and will romp after a squirrel, but if she starts having more bad days than good, I pray for the strength to do the right thing. I love her too much to let her suffer.

[Amazon Floozy Goddess]

I think if an animal is ill, but still has happiness and a zest for life, then by all means, give it all the help you can. But I do agree that a suffering animal that is being more or less forcibly being kept alive is pure selifshness on the part of the owner.

My sister-in-law had a cat who died a couple years ago. A few months before his death it was discovered he had cancer. She couldn't bear the thought of putting him down, yet she couldn't afford treatment, so the poor cat suffered with tumors growing bigger and bigger in his mouth by the month. When I saw him about a week before he died, he was painfully thin and could no longer close his mouth due to the size of the growths - when you looked into his eyes it was unmistakable how sad he was. I insisted she take him to be put to sleep - and she finally did, before he had to suffer any more.

[Dragonblink]

When we discovered our beloved family cat Caliban had lymphoma, we were devastated. I'm so thankful this happened at a time when we actually had enough money to pay for chemotherapy, because it bought us a few more months. She didn't seem to be in too much pain, but she wasn't eating well and was getting weak. The chemo turned that around for awhile, but then (as the vet tactfully put it) it came out of remission.

At that point, we knew we had to have her euthanized. It was heartbreaking, and I still miss her because she was a wonderful cat. But there's no way we would have let her just waste away to nothingness -- once we knew there was nothing more we could do, we ended her suffering.

[AngelicGemma]

When an animal is suffering that badly, it's time to let go. I think it's horrible when people keep suffering animals alive. It's selfish.

For God sake! I was making these decisions as a child! If my guinea pig was suffering so badly the vet said the best thing was to put him to sleep, then I let him do it!

[BoringDad]

Originally Posted by Archergal

Lots of folks say the animals will let you know when they're ready to go.

Lots of folks can be very wrong.
The decision is only an easy one if you have already let your animal suffer too long, and it is obvious that he is suffering. It is quite painful and difficult if you are trying to do the best you can for your pet and prevent them from suffering.

[Shirley Ujest]

I don't condone putting down a pet because it is old.


My dog is 9 now, and getting slower due to arthritis. She gets an OTC pill on bad days for it and is raring to go. I dread the day we have to put her down and thought last year that because of a leg problem we were going to have to do it. We gave the kids the speech, said our goodbyes to Murph ( who looked as only a Lab can with big fat brown eyes that just suck at your soul) and decided that since she wasn't in pain ( as the Vet said) we would take it as it came.

She is still with us, farting up her territory, I am happy to report.

[auntie em]

I agree with the OP, and frankly (as awful as it may sound) think that it would be easier for me to let go of the dog than to have to see it struggle through each and every day. Thankfully I've never had to watch a human loved one suffer in such a way (so far . . . ), but I think I'd feel the same way.

That said, I do think it's sometimes hard to draw the line--especially since the dog can't express his/her wishes verbally--and so understand how some pet owners end up letting it go too far.

And finally, as a slight hijack, I'd like to add to this pitting the people at the OTHER end of the spectrum, who will put a dog down or "get rid of it" because "she kept chewing things up" or "he wouldn't stop barking."

[Elza B]

I agree with the OP to a point. If you were to look at my 18 year-old cat, you'd probably think I was a terrible pet owner. She weighs 22 lbs, has arthritis, and is miserable. She's my baby and I hate it that she hurts. She lives with my parents, though, so I don't have the ability to take her to the vet every time.

Should she be put down? Probably. I've been preparing myself for it for several years. She's told me that it's time. We communicate, I love her dearly, and I know she's ready.

Our vet keeps trying more and more treatments on her. He won't let her go. I know I should say the vet knows best, but in Izzy's case, he doesn't see her cry with every step, he doesn't see her eating less, he doesn't see what we see. He sees a cat with arthritis and he wants to fix her.

Honestly, I'm at the point where I don't want to take her in again because I don't want to put her through more senseless treatments that don't work. So we look like terrible pet owners because our vet won't let her go. She is MY cat so my parents won't take her in to be put down unless I'm there - but if he won't let her go peacefully, there's nothing I can do.

It might sound horrible, but I'm hoping she dies peacefully in her sleep soon. Not because I don't love her, but because I love her so much that I want her to feel better. This cat was my best friend in middle school when I was bullied and teased, and I only want the best for her. I will cry like a baby when she goes (and I tear up just thinking about it), but I want her to be happy.

Ava

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

The owner of the barn where I keep my two horses is facing this decision for two of her beloved equines. Shadow is an elderly mare with a number of health problems, including Cushing's. Eddie is a pony who's foundered, and looks aged well beyond his years. He's only nine or so years old, yet he has the graying of the face you'd see in a 30-year-old horse.

Last winter was terribly hard on both of them. During the coldest months, both could barely hobble, as the chill seeped into their aching joints and feet. The barn owner did all she could to keep them comfortable, and came close to putting them down. Come springtime, and returning warmth, they both recovered to happy paddock-ornament condition.

But now fall is upon us. The barn owner and I have talked about the difficult days ahead. I believe this fall she'll have Shadow put down, to spare her the rigors of another winter the old girl might not survive in any case. Eddie? My friend can't handle the thought of losing both of them together, and she's still wrestling with what she shoudl do in his case.

I for damned sure don't envy her. But I know she'll do what's right for both of them.

[Uvula Donor]

Originally Posted by avabeth

Honestly, I'm at the point where I don't want to take her in again because I don't want to put her through more senseless treatments that don't work. So we look like terrible pet owners because our vet won't let her go. She is MY cat so my parents won't take her in to be put down unless I'm there - but if he won't let her go peacefully, there's nothing I can do.

Yes there is. You can go to another vet.

[auntie em]

Ava, any chance of getting another vet (I hope that didn't sound snarky, because it wasn't meant to be)?

My mom's vet did the same thing with her dog, who was old and clinging fiercely to her last nerve. It used to be that she'd throw up when she got the least bit agitated, but then it got to the point where she would (TMI! TMI! TMI!) start bleeding rectally and making a mess all over the place! The vet just kept giving her more and more and more tranquilizers, to the point where she couldn't walk, or even wake up (at a couple of points we thought she was dead), and recommended a diet of hamburger and rice.

Nothing seemed to work (and I missed several days of work in the process of "trying"), but the vet wouldn't give up, so finally my mother went to the other vet in the practice and just yelled until they agreed to put the dog down.

[catsix]

This summer, my cat got cancer. He was fifteen years old and had already had cancer once before (skin cancer which was successfully removed years earlier), so we knew that he was going to go down hill.

For as long as he seemed to enjoy his life, running around, playing, eating like a champ, we left him alone. When he started to slow down, play less, eat less, and spend more time sleeping than usual, we figured he knew he was ill. We decided to keep a close watch and if he made an indication that he was in pain, we'd have him put down.

He died on his own, in his house, before he ever seemed to cry or meow or indicate that he was feeling pain, so hopefully he wasn't feeling pain.

The other cat is also fifteen years old, and has mild arthritis. He stands up like an old man, stretches and pops his joints, and then he goes on about his merry business of bugging for food, laying around outside, chasing stuff, and being the happy if not odd cat that he's always been. Yes, he's old, and yes, he has arthritis, but if these conditions don't bother him, I see no reason to put him down now. If he was incapable of living a relatively normal cat life, then I could see it. As it is, he's a happy cat whose favorite activity in life is to chase bugs under the front porch.

If he enjoys his life, why would I end it?

[Elza B]

Originally Posted by auntie em

Ava, any chance of getting another vet (I hope that didn't sound snarky, because it wasn't meant to be)?

It didn't sound snarky. I guess we haven't gone to another vet because he's been her vet (and our vet) for over 20 years - he was the vet for all of our cats. We're supposed to be able to trust him. He's like our own family doctor. And it's not like he's doing it out of spite for her - I think he genuinely thinks he will find something to help her.

I'm visiting my parents in a couple of weeks. I'll call them this week and see if we can take her to another vet when I'm home.

Ava

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

avabeth, with such a long relationship with this vet, could you try this? Tell him: "We've relied on you for over 20 years to take care of our pets, and you've done a wonderful job. We know you love them too. But you don't see them every day, as we do, and you don't see, as we do, how much Izzy is suffering. Please, I know how much you want to help Izzy, but the only thing that will help her now is a peaceful release from suffering. I don't want to have to take her to another vet, but if you won't give her this final gift, I'll be forced to do it, for Izzy's sake."

[Elza B]

Originally Posted by EddyTeddyFreddy

avabeth, with such a long relationship with this vet, could you try this? Tell him: "We've relied on you for over 20 years to take care of our pets, and you've done a wonderful job. We know you love them too. But you don't see them every day, as we do, and you don't see, as we do, how much Izzy is suffering. Please, I know how much you want to help Izzy, but the only thing that will help her now is a peaceful release from suffering. I don't want to have to take her to another vet, but if you won't give her this final gift, I'll be forced to do it, for Izzy's sake."

Actually, that's probably something for my dad to do - he's good at things like that. I know he's got to take our younger cat to the vet for his check-up, so maybe he can discuss it with him there.

What's hard is that even people who've only seen her a couple of times wonder why we haven't done it yet. My husband met her for the first time over a year ago, and he immediately asked me why she was in such pain. If they can see it, why can't he?

Being 8 hours away from her really sucks - but if it comes right down to it, I'll get in the car and drive to be with her in the end - the one thing my parents did promise is that they would never do it without my permission or presence. And I'd get there within 24 hours if I had to in order to prevent her from suffering any longer.

Ava

[Lissa]

Originally Posted by Shirley Ujest

My dog is 9 now, and getting slower due to arthritis. She gets an OTC pill on bad days for it and is raring to go.

[hijack] What do you give her? I'll ask my vet if it's an option for my dog. I don't think her discomfort is severe enough for a more powerful prescritption drug.[/quote]

[Archergal]

Originally Posted by Lissa

[hijack] What do you give her? I'll ask my vet if it's an option for my dog. I don't think her discomfort is severe enough for a more powerful prescritption drug.

[/quote]

You can get a coated, low-dosage aspirin product made for dogs. That's what I use for mine.

[Lute Skywatcher]

Originally Posted by EddyTeddyFreddy

My friend can't handle the thought of losing both of them together, and she's still wrestling with what she shoudl do in his case.

Any possibility of Eddie being sent somewhere warmer?

[lezlers]

Ugh. This is one of my pet peeves.

I had an X boyfriend who had a very old cat, Niki. The poor thing was suffering so horribly and he absolutely refused to put her down. His sister and I tried everything we could, the gentle approach, the tough approach, the logical approach. He just wasn't having it and it was the height of selfishness. Almost broke up with him over it a few times.

It's wonderful that humans can share so much love for a pet that they will try anything to keep them alive. It's even more wonderful when they share so much love they're willing to let a suffering pet go.

I firmly believe it takes more love to do the latter than the former.

[BoringDad]

Originally Posted by lezlers

It's wonderful that humans can share so much love for a pet that they will try anything to keep them alive. It's even more wonderful when they share so much love they're willing to let a suffering pet go.

I firmly believe it takes more love to do the latter than the former.

Yeah, but it sucks balls to actually have do it. We put down our 14 year old Scottie yesterday. Liver failure from a tumor. No way I'm putting an elderly dog through surgery and chemo.

Whole family over age 4 cried. The 2 and 3 year olds didn't really grasp the concept.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

Originally Posted by Jeff Olsen

Any possibility of Eddie being sent somewhere warmer?

No, unfortunately.

[Guinastasia]

EddyTeddyFreddy-what does it mean that he "foundered?"


Quite honestly, I cannot imagine this. To me, the horror of seeing my beloved pets in pain was far worse than the guilt and sorrow I felt at having to put them down.

The ONLY case, where it was extremely hard, was with Tess. Some of you may recall a few years ago that we had a little kitten with a crippled front leg. It turned out she had peritonitis and had to be put to sleep. (I had a meltdown in the Pit about it, several trolls banned, pretty much a trainwreck). But even in that case, I hated seeing her sick and even then you could see she was starting to have trouble breathing, and her abdomen was swollen to almost twice its size.

With our Westie, Lassie, who was almost fourteen, death came as a relief. One day, she just crashed on us. Kept throwing up over a period of twenty-four hours, and we had to take her to an emergency animal hospital. They put her on pain killers in their ward, and my mom drove back to pick the rest of us up. When we got there, and they brought her into the exam room, it was so obvious she was in pain, even though she was really glad to see us. She was really suffering. While we waited, I started thinking that I just wanted the vet to come in and get it over with, because watching her suffer was just horrible. Death was almost a relief. Yes, it hurt, but it hurt more to see her in pain.

Then, there was Fluffy. I got her when I was six, after my mother's mean old cat, Meow died of bladder cancer at nine years. Fluffy was there for me through my nightmares (I always felt safer when she slept on my feet at night), she was there when I was getting picked on in 7th grade, when I went through my depression, everything. And then when she was sixteen, she had a stroke that left her blind and increasingly deaf. But, in spite of that, she was still a happy (though demanding and imperious) feline, still begging for the milk from my cereal every morning, and she stayed confined to the kitchen/dining room. (Which she KNEW her way around, trust me!)

But a few months later, one day, my mother came to me and told me that Fluffy had had another stroke. This one left her mostly paralyzed, and my mother didn't think she'd survive the day. So, we kept her comfortable, wrapped up in one of her favorite blankets, and held her and cuddled her, and made her as warm and comforted as we could.

She went into a coma that evening and died at 2 am the next morning. If she hadn't, we WOULD have taken her to the vet's, but we really didn't want to traumatize her with a visit if we didn't have to. (Earlier that year she had had a really horrible throat infection as well as several bad teeth and when we took her to the vets, she HATED it. We thought she'd be a goner then, but she rallied and came back, even younger and sprier than ever)

But even though losing her hurt like hell, even though I cried for weeks and even though I'm STARTING to cry just writing this post (and it's been four years since she passed away), her dying was a relief, because I knew she was out of any pain and misery. No, she wasn't suffering like Lassie or Tess, but it hurt to see the cat who used to jump from the fridge to the floor without breaking a sweat barely able to move and who fell when she tried to get up to use the litterbox.

So these people, not only are they selfish, but they must not have hearts. At all. At least now I can think of Fluffy jumping up on the counter to steal someone's lunch. I can remember Lassie wagging her tail and getting all excited when my dad came home from work, or Tess racing around on her three little legs. I don't have to have those memories replaced by them gasping out their last breaths and whimpering in pain.

(Sorry if this is long-winded, but it's a subject that really irritates me.)

[Stoid]

Originally Posted by Archergal

It was worth it -- she'd been seizure-free for almost a year when we lost her to cancer.

I haven't had to make the decision to have an animal euthanized yet. I hope I'm wise enough to know when the time is right.

This seems to be contradictory on the face of it. What kind of cancer kills without pain and suffering that could have been alleviated by helping the animal die a little sooner?

Not that I'm being too self-righteous here, i didn't pull myself together to put down my cocker spaniel until a point that was certainly mere hours before her natural death would have occurred, given that she was hemorrhaging internally and her skeletal frame was suddenly carting around a pregnant looking belly full of blood.

But that was a hideous and painful "Snap out of it!" sort of lesson, one I only needed to learn once.

[smartini]

Originally Posted by catsix

If he enjoys his life, why would I end it?

I agree. And you will know when he stops enjoying life. Our black lab, Dreyfus, lived to be 14 years old. He had arthritis and couldn't take any of the meds because they really uspet his stomach. My husband built little ramps for him here and there so he could continue to get to all the spots he enjoyed without hurting his hips. That worked fine for a couple of years and he really enjoyed himself. Became a grand old man. Then he started falling and having a hard time getting up and, although he continued to eat, he approached it like a chore...almost like he was doing it for us. After he fell one morning and my husband had to help him get up we worried that he would fall when we were not home. We all went together with him to the vet when we had him put down. It was really hard but none of us regret it. Dreyfus was a good ole dog.

A favorite memory of Dreyfus: He loved to eat my flowers. He even ate the plastic daisy off the mat my husband had in front of his storage shed in the side yard. My daughter and I were looking out into the backyard one day and I commented that Dreyfus seemed to have grown out of liking to eat my flowers. He was laying on the deck with his back to us. I knocked on the glass door to get his attention and when he turned around to look we noticed that he had a big, bright fushia hibiscus blossom hanging on the side of his mouth. Looking very innocent, I might add.

[CrazyCatLady]

Guin, "foundered" means he got laminitis, an inflammation of the tissue around the hooves. It can range from very mild, with few after-effects, to making the hoof slough. From the sound of it, this little guy had a fairly bad case and now has residual pain in his hooves and legs, especially when it's cold.

As for the OP, I go through the exact same rant at least once a week in my head. The ones I really, really hate are the ones who accept that the animal is dying, but want them to "go peacefully at home." I got news for you, ass-nozzle, your dog is slowly drowning because of the fluid backing up in her lungs. She's not going to die a peaceful death, happy because she's at home. She's going to die gasping for air, frightened and in pain, too busy fighting for air to give a shit where she is. She's going to die a slow, horrible death and it's all your fault, you selfish cunt.

*ahem* Sorry, it's not been a very good week for this sort of thing at work.

[Optihut]

Originally Posted by Shirley Ujest

Please, for the sake of all things humane, we cannot euthanize humans when they are desperately old, a decaying shell of their former selves with nothing left upstairs or in a tremendous amount of incurable, irreversable pain, but you can do this for your pet.[/size]

I would have less of a problem with allowing a consenting human to end his / her life, than killing an animal without his / her consent.

Sorry, but unless Peanut states that he wants his life to end, killing him is not the "right" thing to do. Yes, his suffering is going to end and you have the legal right to request putting him to sleep, but I daresay you don't have the moral right.

Anyway, my dog is 15.75 years old and if he makes it to 16, he's going to be very lucky. He can hardly see anymore, he can hardly hear anymore and he doesn't run anymore. Instead he is walking at a very deliberate pace.
Yet, when I was away in Canada and thought I might not see him again, being away for 4 months, he wagged his tail when I came back and he noticed that I was back (fortunately his nose is still working and he can tell people apart by their individual scent.) He still enjoys life and even though everyone around me pressures me to kill him already, I don't see how I can do that on a good conscience. Let nature run its course, eventually he'll die of old age.

[Ferret Herder]

Originally Posted by Optihut

Sorry, but unless Peanut states that he wants his life to end, killing him is not the "right" thing to do. Yes, his suffering is going to end and you have the legal right to request putting him to sleep, but I daresay you don't have the moral right.

Unless you're suggesting that the owner is the only one who can make that decision, you're way off here. Our pets can't consent to vaccinations or other health care either, and they certainly don't consent to being forbidden to cross the road, yet we do that all the time. Often you can easily tell that they don't want a vaccination, yet we do it still. Do you have a justification for that as well?

The last ferret I put down was suffering from a heart condition as well as damage from an intestinal disease that was ravaging her body. The vet told me she was terminal, it was just a matter of how good her life was until I made the decision that her suffering outweighed her life. I had to help her go to the bathroom a few times a day by pressing down in a certain way on her belly. I had to give her medicine 4 times a day. She grew slower and weaker. She began leaking diarrhea on occasion. My husband and I decided each day whether her "quality of life" was sufficient. One morning I absolutely had to go to work, and when I looked in the cage, I hoped she would pass away peacefully during the day, she looked so miserable.

When I got home, I saw her and began weeping right away. She was nearly covered in bloody diarrhea, trembling, and just looked awful. Her cagemate was backed away - a rare sight, they loved to sleep next to each other - and trembling too. I carefully took my sick ferret out, gave her a gentle bath, and held her in a towel. My husband and I drove to the vet, and the vet confirmed that nothing could be done to help her. Finally, her suffering was over.

To this day, the only thing I regret was not skipping that day of work instead of leaving her there with this sick feeling inside that she was far too ill. It was my duty as her owner to help end that pain.

When I was a child, our first dog had cancer, and perhaps something else too. I remember that the muscles in her hind legs had atrophied to the point where she dragged them uselessly behind her. She whimpered every time her head was touched. Getting around was obviously painful and exhausting. The cancer was inoperable. I cried over losing her (as I still do when a pet dies), but my mother explained about how much pain she was in, which I could see even then. I understood but I wasn't less sad.

For your dog's sake, I do hope he dies peacefully in his sleep without suffering from some awful disease first. Not seeing, not hearing, and still walking around fine doesn't sound that horrible to me personally, but there are far worse things our animals can contract.

[calm kiwi]

The last thing I would ever do is be cruel to an animal.

My family has been lucky. We seem to have animals that go on forever. The current cat (well the family cat...but she's still kind of mine) is a product of the mid 80's. She loves jumping off the roof onto the deck, her old legs don't like the jump so much. Everytime I visit mum's place I cringe when I watch the cat do her death defying leap, her old legs ain't as sound as they once were. The back legs miss the deck railing and she scrabbles to regain her grip. Then she has to sit and recover. Oneday she will miss and land two storeys down.

She has very few teeth left and watching her eat dinner is kind of amusing actually. She is down to about tablespoon or two of food in the evening but still comes looking for cheese at lunchtime. She dribbles like a tap when she is happy (no teeth to hold the saliva in). She walks a bit stiffly but still waddles to give the dog a "kiss".

Oneday she will die and hopefully she will die like her daughter did (under a bed in her sleep 18 months ago) but if she gets sick and needs medical help then we will provide it.

Our 23 yr old poodle/border collie/lab FAT dog was on all kinds of meds for several years before she died (at home). The dog prior to her was 21 and completely blind (for 4 years) and arthritic. She also went to sleep in her basket. We knew she had died because even though she wasn't too fussed with food anymore she could never resist the crinkle of lolly wrappers (candy).

Her slightly younger "sister" (no relation. German Shep X) died 6 months before. We did rush her to the vets at 2 am cause she had rectal bleeding and couldn't stand. She stayed the night at the vets and he said that while he didn't know what was wrong with her it didn't look good. We bought her home and she died mid cuddle.

I don't believe in being cruel to animals but I hope every single person that advocated putting animals down also supports euthanasia. It is incredibly wrong to put Fluffy to sleep whele Grandma is suffering more.

Animals dies daily...shit every minute without people intervention, very often in pain. They go when they are ready. Because you love Fluffy they should be on different rules from other animals?...........or people?

For the third time, I don't want to see any animal suffer but I think "putting an animal down" is more about alleviating human pain. We feel bad seeing them suffer. We also feel bad seeing Grandma suffer...........we can't put her to sleep though.

Given the choice between Grandma in agony or pussy cat in agony I would chose to end the pain for one wayyyyyyy before the other. Unfortunately the one I would chose isn't legal. I believe it should be legal. It is said that it isn't legal because we need to protect those who can not protect themselves. Why afford such a kindness to animals if we can't afford the same kindness to our loved ones?

Animals in my house will receive all they need to live pain free lives.......but they will die when their time is up. The very same way as any member of my family.


Before you put your animal to sleep ask yourself if this cat were Grandma what would you do?

[calm kiwi]

Originally Posted by Ferret Herder

Unless you're suggesting that the owner is the only one who can make that decision, you're way off here. Our pets can't consent to vaccinations or other health care either, and they certainly don't consent to being forbidden to cross the road, yet we do that all the time. Often you can easily tell that they don't want a vaccination, yet we do it still. Do you have a justification for that as well?

Neither can our children. We vacinate them and they weep and wail, we nver ask their permission though. We can't put them to sleep though.

Animals are EATEN (sorry I just felt like "shouting") everyday. By us and other animals, I don't believe they sign permission slips first.

My child is just about to turn 13, if he needs to go to doctor we wil decide that between us, when he was 6 mths old he got the jab because I took him. This has nothing to do with the end of life.

[Ferret Herder]

Originally Posted by calm kiwi

Neither can our children. We vacinate them and they weep and wail, we nver ask their permission though. We can't put them to sleep though.

Animals are EATEN (sorry I just felt like "shouting") everyday. By us and other animals, I don't believe they sign permission slips first.

I'm a vegetarian, and I also support legal euthanasia for humans. (I have no control over predatory animals of the wild, however, whatever that has to do with the discussion.) I also would hope that were I in a situation where I could not give consent but was only being kept alive by machines and stood little to no real chance of recovering, my husband would be able to have the plug pulled and let me go. Animals similarly cannot give consent, just as infants can't. We have to make decisions for them at times, and when it's a choice between letting an animal linger on with no decent quality of life and a peaceful euthanasia, I listen to my vet's analysis of the situation and make the choice as needed.

My vet talked about euthanasia with me while we were putting down the ferret I mentioned above. Her eyes got a bit moist as she talked about watching a beloved uncle wither away in a hospital bed, suffering from a terminal disease that I don't recall now (might have been cancer, I'm not sure). He was in restraints because he kept trying to remove the equipment that was pretty much the only thing keeping him alive. People refer to inhumane treatment of animals, but we show great inhumanity in not letting our own species pass out of this life with some measure of dignity.

I have no sympathy for people who want a pet put to sleep when it becomes "inconvenient" or requires a little extra medicine or something. But there are cases where it is obvious that no further veterinary intervention can do anything worthwhile to the animal.

[Shirley Ujest]

[hijack] What do you give her? I'll ask my vet if it's an option for my dog. I don't think her discomfort is severe enough for a more powerful prescritption drug.

[/quote]

I give her one Aleve in a Snausage. I think it is actually the Snausage that has the magical powers, but one never knows.

[Archergal]

I give her one Aleve in a Snausage. I think it is actually the Snausage that has the magical powers, but one never knows.[/quote]

Be very careful about giving things like ibuprofen (Motrin, etc) or naproxen sodium (Aleve) or acetominophen (Tylenol) to dogs. They can be toxic. There's apparently a fairly small margin of safety for ibuprofen and naproxen. They can apparently cause stomach ulcers or kidney problems.

Of course there's a quality of life issue here. Do you give the OTC meds (or more expensive prescription meds like Rimadyl that can also have bad side effects) and hope for the best, or do you leave the animal in pain? That's the hard question.

[sj2]

It is the hardest thing to let go...especially a pet. For some reason, at least for me, it's the furry ones passing on that hitch my breath. I have put down 2 dogs in the recent past and it was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life.

I think with the first one, who had a tumor in her neck, I may have waited a bit too long. She wasn't in pain, but you could tell the light had left her eyes and she was embarrassed by her condition. Still it tears me up.

Ok, I have to get out of this thread. Obviously, years later it is still too hard. But, before I go I want to tell you and all of you that it is hard, but you can tell when your babe needs you to help them along in life and in death.

[Hello Again]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

EddyTeddyFreddy-what does it mean that he "foundered?"

In true SDMB fashion I'll give you more info than you could ever possibly hope to use.

The horse's hoof actually contains a "pump" mechanism that moves blood throughout the leg as it moves. For this reason, the hoof is actually a blood-rich environment, not hard and solid like many people think. Inside the hard hoof wall is spongy, blood filled tissue (the laminae). At the center of the inside of the hoof is a trapezoidal bone called the coffin bone, which is sort of shaped like a hoof in minature, with the point forward facing towards the toe.

In laminitis, the laminae become inflamed, which is painful in and of itself, like the feeling you have when you've slammed your fingernail in a door. Unusual heat can be felt emanating from the affected hooves. Mild cases can be treated by lowering the inflammation with anti-inflammatories and cold water on the hoof. In serious cases, the pressure forces the coffin bone to rotate untill it is positioned point-downward within the foot. At this point the horse adopts a classic standing position -- rocked back on its hind legs and heels -- known as the "foundering stance." This is an effort to reduce the downward pressure of the coffin bone. In exteme cases, the coffin bone actually pierces the sole of the foot, or the hoof wall separates from the rest of the foot, and then generally (hopefully) a humane death follows.

Laminitis has many causes. Overeating rich food -- especially spring grass -- is a common cause. Eating posionous plants is another. Working on hard surfaces (so-called "road founder") is a third. Horses that have slow thyroid (Cushing's Disease) and/or are overweight are more prone to foundering than fit horses with good metabolism. Front feet founder more often than hind feet. I'm not sure why.

A horse that has foundered mildly may receive special shoes to support the hoof structures, and their weight and eating habits should carefully monitored (a horse that has foundered once is more likely to founder again.) In many cases they may continue to work at a reasonable level. Some fairly serious cases can be treated sucessfully with a great application of money and expertise.

[Guinastasia]

Ouch. Thanks, Hello Again. Sounds like my position when I had a bad case of Plantars warts.

(Is that why they invented horse shoes? So horses hooves were protected? Does it hurt to put the shoes on?)