Is Kerry an idiot, or not?

I think **Sam Stone ** asked a good question at the end of this thread…that is, lets turn the perennial question asked ad nausium on this board…i.e. is Bush an idiot, moron, stupid, blah blah blah.

Ok, so, the shoe is on the other foot…is Kerry an idiot? Can we prove out in this thread that he is smarter than the average bear? What arguements can be offered to show that Kerry is/is not stupid? If he’s not stupid, how smart is he? If he’s stupid, how stupid?

I have zero intention of DEFINING stupid, moron, idiot, etc…no one in the various Bush threads ever did…it was just an excuse to huddle around and sing kumbya and bash Bush. Ok, here is the same chance for the Bush guys to get some back…and the Kerry guys to defend their guy.

Have at it…this should be fun. :slight_smile:

…Oh, you want MY take on the question? Well, I don’t think either guys is stupid actually, and in fact I’d say both are above average in raw intellegence. From a raw gut feeling comparison, I think Kerry comes off as APPEARING to be more intellegent, but I’m not sure which is smarter from the raw numbers…or even what those raw numbers translate into the vague impression that makes up ‘intellegence’.

I’ve seen Bush rated at something like an IQ of around 128 (based on his SAT’s I guess), but I’ve never seen Kerry’s. Certainly Bush’s raw scores are quite a bit less than my own…but then, I’ll never be President, nor am I likely to ever be a mega-millionare…nor marry one. So I guess that means they are both ‘smarter’ than I am.

-XT

I suspect that is a typo.

Let me weigh in on the OP: Kerry is not stupid*.

*But he sure campaigns as if he were. :slight_smile:

Ah, you wound me John. :slight_smile: Just because I can’t spell and can’t write, and my debating skills aren’t up to the standards of this board…well, never mind.

-XT

Bush’s SAT scores are quite good. If yours are better, than you are indeed smart (whatever the hell that means).

I’ve gotten all types of academic awards, but I don’t think my SATs were much better than Bush’s, although it was a long time ago, and I honestly don’t really remember.

The only people who use IQ and SAT scores to prove intelligence are those who test well.

Is Kerry stupid? As in, unintelligent? No.

Are his policies stupid? Yeah.

From the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry):

Nope. Not an idiot.

I think our view on whether Kerry is policitally stupid will depend on what happens when we vote.

If he wins, we’ll think how clever to spend the first four months getting right up to the Bush Iraq policy, then six weeks of separation and along the way all the dust about Vietnam back and forth.

If he loses, then simply replace clever with stupid in the above sentence.

Yes, my SATs were over 200 points better (1480 raw in '76)…and my IQ was higher too. My actual GRADES in college were probably no better than Bush’s though. However, I’ve never been President, never been a fighter pilot or even an officer (I was enlisted and only made PO before going to college), nor even elected to any office, and while I own my own company I’ll never, ever, reach the rarefied levels of either the Bush’s or the Kerry’s. As I’ve said before, I think test scores are a poor indication of raw intellegence. Some people just take tests well. However, the raw scores are all we really have for an empiric judgement of either man’s ‘intellegence’…or lack thereof.

Anyone know what Kerry’s IQ or SAT’s were…or what his grades were in college?

-XT

This tactic doesn’t really work, does it. We have ample evidence that Bush is a moron. We also know that he pickled his brain with chemicals for many, many years.

Kerry has never given any indication of inferior intellect the way that Bush has.

I don’t think it’s proper to comment on Kerry’s intelligence until after he starts campaigning.

Wow. DtC descending to the level of Kitty Kelly. Does your hatred of Bush have no bounds? I’m no Bush fan, but posts like that almost make me hope he does win in November.

Ouch!

My SATs were a bit better, and I was still damn and mighty nervous applying for school. I’m not sure if a 1203 (or whatever it was he got) is all that special anymore, though I seem to recall reading the scores are inflating with time. Perhaps if one were to adjust for this trend, he’d place higher. At any rate, I certainly didn’t feel I was good enough to apply to Yale or Harvard; not on my SATs alone, anyway, and never bothered. Maybe I sold myself short, but my understanding is that Bush was never Yale material without the legacy.

Anyhow, I can’t imagine there’s much of a question about Kerry’s intellect. All anecdotal evidence points to his having a first-rate mind, though he reportedly had an overcompesatory way of interacting with people as a student in prep. school, perhaps because of his pedigree (a Catholic among the WASPy brahmins). I would say that his recent voting record and campaigning is as paradoxical, vis-a-vis his brains, as are Bush’s few major successes purportedly in spite of his own mental deficiencies.

Kerry, I think, is simply insecure. This has turned whatever message he might have had into a muddle. This uneasynesss probably got the better of him when he voted for the war in Iraq (as it did many other members of his party with future political aspirations…I’m looking at you, Hillary). As a campaigner, such uncertainty is worse than stupid, and it shows.

Given that Bush is the most hated President since Nixon, the fact that Kerry isn’t running away with this election doesn’t bode well for something about him. Intelligence? Decision-making skills? Inability to properly judge people and their performance?

[QUOTE=JohnTInability to properly judge people and their performance?[/QUOTE]

His, or ours?

Decision-making skills, I’m guessing. Uncertainty will scramble the best of minds, and it saps the candidate of charisma. My guess: Some of the Pubs digs at Kerry are not inaccurate. He is something of a waffler. He appears to agonize over the explanation for his rather paradoxical stance on the War in Iraq, leaving even his staunchest allies at a loss to explain his behavior. Maybe he has it all sorted out, but he doesn’t seem to be able to articulate it. I rather guess he caved under political pressure on the Iraq vote, and lacks the comfort level needed to convincingly dissemble. This has robbed him of a clear stance on perhaps the most important issue facing his campaign.

Doesn’t that mean he would make a president we could trust, for a change?

Maybe. Maybe not. I’d like to think Kerry, if elected, would feel he had enough of a mandate to be more confident. But if he’s always second-guessing the electorate and voting with the tides of public oppinion, he’s not a leader, IMO. Maybe he wouldn’t be a terrible leader, like Bush; but if he’s to get anything done with a Republican legislature looming over him from the Hill, he’s got to be able to stand up to them with his own convictions, and sink or swim by them. Lately, I haven’t seen much evidence he’s got the mettle to do so.

At any rate, I don’t think smarts is the problem. It’s charisma. What robs him of charisma, as far as I can see, is that once he was conflicted, and now he can’t explain it in a politically palatable way. Why not? If Kerry could answer that question himself, he’d be in better shape.

Or maybe not, eh? The next Congress has yet to be elected! :wink:

Hang on here… WHAT empirical evidence tells us that Kerry had a ‘first rate mind’? He attended private schools like every other rich kid. We don’t know what grades he got. I don’t see any scholarships on the list. In college he studied political science. Where I come from, the Poli Sci students were considered to be the guys who weren’t smart enough for math, science, or engineering. Certainly you don’t have to be a genius to get a degree in Poly Sci, even from Yale.

We don’t know what Kerry’s SAT scores were… which suggests to me that they weren’t outstanding, or he’d be using them to his advantage. We don’t know what his grades were like… which suggests to me that they weren’t that hot or he’d use them to his advantage.

Again, if we compare his career to Bush’s, then on paper Bush looks pretty good. Kerry went into the Navy, Bush into fighter jets. Issues of war and combat aside, I can tell you for sure that Bush took the more intellectually and physically demanding choice. Kerry went to Boston college for a law degree, Bush went to Harvard for an MBA.

The main thing that jumps out at me about Kerry is that he was a born politician. From an early age he took an interest in politics, and he’s been interested in it ever since. He moved into government at his first possible opportunity. This says absolutely nothing about his intelligence or lack thereof.

For the record, I assume that Kerry is pretty sharp. You don’t get to be a candidate for President without being pretty sharp. But what amazes me is that some partisans can look at Bush’s academic and career record and conclude that he’s an idiot, and yet they can look at Kerry’s record and conclude he’s very smart. And yet, on paper Bush’s career and education look better than Kerry’s.