Being from America, I’ve been fed the “Our healthcare is the envy of the world” line for longer than I can remember. I was perfectly content to thumb my nose at other countries’ far inferior healthcare riiiight up until I started spending alot of time on the internet. All of my foreign friends seem healthy enough, no one is rolling around in a heap of corpses, cursing the black death that runs rampant in all societies subscribing to government run health care, so what’s the deal?
What is it like having socialized medicine? How long does it take to get a doctors appointment? Are the ER’s up to date and not overcrowded? Does it really rain Valium in Canada?
I’m particularly interested in hearing from people who’ve experienced both forms of healthcare… did one seem to have more bang for it’s buck?
My experiences are mixed on both sides of the issue. In the U.S., when I had health insurance through a group plan, I felt like I got excellent care. When my husband changed jobs though, I had a choice of staying on COBRA ($680/month), going on his new group plan ($900/month), or going without insurance. The quality of care would have stayed the same, but the monthly costs were hard to handle.
In Australia, I feel like I’ve also gotten good care (well, at least my son has - I haven’t had to go to the doctor, yet). When it was time for my son’s regular check-up, I called a local doctor and she got me right in. She’s been fantastic about getting his vaccines sorted out (the schedule’s different here and she’s gone to a lot of trouble to make sure he’s on track both in the U.S. and here). The main difference between here and the U.S. is that we see a GP, not a pediatrician. She’ll also be my doctor if I get sick and when I need a pap smear. If I wasn’t high-risk, she would also have seen me through my next pregnancy. Another difference I’ve seen is that she spends a lot more time with us than any doctor I’ve had in the U.S. This may just be her style, but I think socialised medicine does, in a way, make medicine less of a production line type of industry.
From what I’ve heard from friends, people here seem to go to the emergency room more than in the U.S. We had one friend who told us to take our son to the emergency room any time he gets a fever (she’s a little meningitis-paranoid). Our other friend’s son has been in the emergency roon twice in the last two months(and admitted for 5+ days each time) for croup. I don’t doubt that his condition was serious, but I don’t think he would have been admitted for that long in the U.S. The women I’ve talked to here who’ve had kids have also been admitted longer for birth. I think my friend said she was in for 5 days after a vaginal birth. In the U.S., they booted me out in 2 1/2 days after a caesarean.
According to newspaper articles here, there is a chronic shortage of beds in hospitals. People sometimes have to wait hours or even days before they’re seen. I think this is because so many people are so quick to run to the hospital, plus funds are very limited.
Another telling point is that our very large, regional hospital just got its first MRI machine. My husband, who’s from here, but who worked as a PT in the U.S. for over a decade, was shocked and horrified at this. In the U.S., it seems like there’s an MRI place on every other corner and that people get them at the drop of a hat. On the other hand, MRIs are probably overused in the U.S.
Finally, although there is socialised medicine here, private insurance is also available and what you would really need to have if you were ever seriously ill. A very sad example of this is something my husband’s family is facing right now. My father-in-law has prostate cancer and a very serious pancreatic illness (which was initially diagnosed as cancer, but is not). His doctors told him this week that he could either get a very expensive, experimental surgery (which is not covered by socialised medicine, but would be by private insurance) or he has 6 months to live. He has chosen the 6 months. There were numerous factors involved, but cost was part of his decision (we’re talking in the hundreds of thousands).
Friend steps in pothole while running, ankle swells up. Goes to hospital, gets sent for x ray… which will be done in 3 days.
After 3 days, the x ray is taken. In the meantime, friend limps around on crutches. After the x ray is taken… wait a week for the doctor to get around to actually LOOKING at the x ray.
Doctor looks at the x ray. “Jolly good, you’re in the pink of health, wot wot. Run along now, there’s a good chap” and pushes him out the door. Sans crutches.
No experience of anything other than the UK, but here goes:
First point of contact for anything is your GP (family doctor), who will deal with regular stuff, or refers you to specialist or hospital treatment as necessary. In my experience, I can mostly get an appointment within a day or two. However, this experience varies, with some areas having a shortage of GPs. GPs also operate out-of-hours calls, for non-hospital-level emergencies.
Other mundane stuff - opticians and dentists aren’t free (except for children, the elderly etc), but they’re subsidised by the NHS. With dentists in particular, there’s a severe shortage, with many people unable to get access to one at all - and it’s a specific political issue as a result.
The only treatment I’ve had beyond the mundane was for depression. As always, this began with my GP, and when his magic pills didn’t do the trick, I was referred to a psychiatrist, who I first saw about a month later. I was unfortunate to hit them at a time they were struggling to recruit a permanent psych, and so saw three crap ones in succession, before a decent one came along. (I’ve heard it said that the shortage of psychiatrists isn’t limited to the UK, but I’ve no evidence.) The big waiting list I hit was for cognitive behavioral therapy, which was six months. But again, I explored the possibility of getting this therapy privately, and there was no private therapist within 60 miles that didn’t have a similar wait.
We don’t have private insurance because of pre-existing conditions. I’m pretty happy with the services here and my OOP costs. My older son spent 6 weeks in a psych unit earlier this year. It was a bit of a wait (3 weeks from the time we hit crisis point to when he got a bed) but it was free and excellent care in terms of nursing staff numbers and therapists.
Australia has a system where once you have paid out $300 in any one financial year, medicare then refunds most of it. We see a developmental paed and the half hour consult costs me $95 and I get around $90 of that back. It’s hard to get an appt with him but he always sees me in an emergency or rings me within a hour or so.
My older son had an MRI scan a couple of years ago. Referral made on the Thursday, appt on the Saturday. No cost to me.
He’s been referred to the Growth Hormone clinic. Appt’s next week – we waited approx 3 weeks from referral. If he does in fact have a growth hormone deficiency, we won’t be paying the $20 000+ for the growth hormone injections. None of the testing will cost me anything. To see a paediatric endocrinologist privately was a 5 month wait.
Mr P had a skin cancer removed last month. 22 stitches and it haemorrhaged a few days later. He went to the ER and they dressed it. He saw his skin specialist every second day for a week or so. No cost.
Our GP bulkbills for children and has a small cost for adults.
About the only area in which I’m having issues accessing care is psychiatry. Mr P has waited 3 months to see his new psychiatrist and my older son is on private and public waiting lists and I have no idea when we will be seen.
And overall I’m pretty happy with most of the hcps we see. I am still incredulous at the moronic doctor we encountered in the ER last Friday night. My younger son fell and hit his chin and needed care. The GP was closed early for once so we went to the ER. 2 hour wait and they glued his chin. Then the doctor went to give him a tetanus shot in the bum. I asked him to give it anywhere else – K’s had bowel surgery and major constipation issues so his co-operation with a shot in the bum would be about nil. Doc told me not to worry, that tetanus shots don’t cause constipation. WTF?
Socialized health care in Canada is better (from what I’m told by persons who know both systems) than that of the UK. We have a smaller population, so that is likely the reason. Less stretching of government budget.
I never once experienced an overly long wait for care in an emergency room, or a medical procedure. I was always able to choose any doctor I would like to see. Our hospitals and care facilities provide services on par with any American services that are available - and it’s all either free, or costs very, very little. I am from Alberta, AHC (Alberta Health Insurance) for myself and my son was $80.00 per month. It did not matter if it were just the two of us, or if I had ten children, that was the price. I am very aware of the prices here, as my husband sells health insurance. In Alberta, there is a sliding payment scale wherein less wealthy people were subsidised or received completely free care altogether. Northwest Territories, Nunavut, Ontario, Saskatchewan all have or had free health insurance when last I heard. Other provinces may as well, but those are the ones of which I am aware.
Some provinces and territories cover everything from eye exams to prescriptions and everything in between; others exclude eye care and prescriptions. IIRC, none of the provinces I ever lived in covered dental care.
I never paid a deductible for anything, nor a co-pay. When my son was born, the only thing that the hospital would charge to me would have been the circumcision. When this baby is born (soon, please, I’m due on Saturday), we will pay a $250 deductible, in addition to the very high amount we pay monthly for the health insurance. Every time I go to the ob/gyn, I pay $30 as that’s a specialist. Any time I’d go to a regular ol’ doctor, the co-pay would be $20. That is just shocking to me, having had free or nearly-free health care my whole life.
Also, the cost of prescription drugs was much, much lower in Canada. I paid $12 per month for my birth control prescription there before my work benefits kicked in and reimbursed 70%. Here, the exact drug, in generic form, cost $37. Factoring in the exchange rate, that is a difference of $26 US.
Unfortunately for the USA, the population is just way too high for socialized health care to work. Canada has a population approximately 10% of that of the US with a higher percentage of natural resources, as well as higher taxation, and therefore can afford the system.
That doesn’t make sense. Half the population means half the tax income and half the economy, assuming all else is equal. The reason it couldn’t work in the US isn’t a higher numerical population, but a deep-rooted political philosophy.
We see the doctors of our choice as well – I’ve had Americans ask me how I cope with not being able to choose but it’s not true.
Prescriptions cost $3.80. Some newer meds are not subsidised by the PBS and you pay full price. Risperidone is about $60 unless you have a bipolar dx and then it’s $3.80. Ritalin for some bizarre reason is about $20. Strattera is $150 for a month’s supply.
You get one free optician appt a year. Dentists are not covered although some aspects of dental surgery are.
My friend Nancy in England had her (rather important) gynecological surgery put off three times on the day of the surgery. Her husband had private insurance, so she finally said, “sod it” and had it done through his insurance.
When compared to Americans, Canadians live longer, live healthily longer, pay less individually for health care, pay less through our taxes for health care, and overall devote less of our GDP for health care. That’s what socialized health care is about in Canada – better health for all for less cost.
Canadians live longer than Americans:
79.3 years = Canadian life expectancy (2001)
77.0 years = American life expectancy (2001)
Canadians enjoy better health longer than Americans:
69.9 years = Canadian healthy life expectancy (2001)
67.4 = American healthy life expectancy (2001)
Canadian individuals and insurers do not pay as much as American individuals and insurers:
28 = Canadian private expenditure on health as % of total expenditure on health (2000)
55.7 = American private expenditure on health as % of total expenditure on health (2000)
Canadian taxpayers do not pay as much for health care as the American taxpayers:
$1826 = Canadian per capita government expenditure on health in international dollars (2000)
$1992 = American per capita government expenditure on health in international dollars (2000)
Less of Canada’s GDP is spent on health than the USA’s:
9.1 = Canadian total expenditure on health as % of GDP (2000)
13 = American total expenditure on health as % of GDP (2000)
On a personal note, I have enjoyed more than my fair share of medical treatment, and have always received excellent, timely care in Canada, without having to worry about how to pay for it all.
The deal depends a lot of the country. The public healthcare systems in different countries don’t work in the same way, aren’t funded in the same way, don’t face the same issues.
In France (but once again, it’s different in other countries), you pay upfront, usually. Either the doctor hands you a standardized bill that you send to the “social security” (which is in charge of the healthcare system), either he enters directly the infos in the social security network, so you don’t have anything to do. You’re reimbursed later, minus a small part.
For drugs, it works the same way, except that a lot of people register with the pharmacist, so that the social security pay them directly, minus, once again the part which is not reimbursed. Depending on the drugs, the reimbursment can range from 100% (say, a necessary drug) to 30% ( for instance homeopathy :rolleyes: ) or even nothing at all (say, something for your acnea).
For people who have some long-term and costly ailments (say cancer or AIDS) all drugs are free.
Hospitals charge a fixed amount/ day, regardless of the ailment. So, you’ll pay the same amount/ day for a broken bone and for a heart transplant. I just checked, and it costs apparently 13€/ day.
That said, doctors (or private hospital, but generally speaking, public hospitals are better than private ones, though you’re less pampered) can charge more than the social security rate, in which case you must pay the difference from your own pocket, except if you get a private or “mutual” insurance (I’m not sure whether “mutual insurances” exist or not in the US. They work like private insurances, except that they’re non-profit organizations, and insured people get to vote for the board of directors and such things). Most GP charge only the social security rate. Specialists generally charge more, and sometimes much more.
For dentistry and to some extent for glasses, you’re screwed without an insurance. The social security foots only a ludicrous part of the bill.
I can get an appointment with my GP either on the same day or on the following day, it depends. If I can’t wait until the following day for some reason, he sees people without appointment at the beginning of the afternoon, so I can go then. Or make a home call, if need be.
For specialists, it’s longer. Generally between some days and a couple weeks, depending on the doctor or speciality. Though you always can call specialists until you find one who can give you an appointment quicker, of course. Obviously, at the contrary, getting an appointment with a particularily famous doctor can take a long time.
I would point out that the famous “waiting lists” are a canadian and british phenomenon, due IMO to the underfunding of their healthcare system. There are no such waiting lists in France, nor, AFAIK, in Germany, Italy, etc…
I rarely went to an ER. Last time was on New Year’s Eve, and it was definitely overcrowded with people in suit who had cut themselves while opening oysters and people in rags who felt lonely. On more usual days, it was highly variable. I was essentially the only patient once in a small town hospital and I spend some time chatting with the doctors and nurses , while another time there were people waiting everywhere, and the doctors were rushing constantly from one place to another.
Medical equipment is up to date in all western countries, regardless of the healthcare system.
I don’t know concerning Canada, but it definitely rains Valium in France. This country has the highest consumption of tranquilizers and anti-depressants, for some reason.
I didn’t experience both, so I couldn’t tell.
By the way, the USA healthcare system got a poor ranking (by comparison with other industrialized countries) from the WHO. Not because the medical care available is worst, but because there are a lot of people who don’t have access to the best care available, because the health indicators like the average lifespan are lower, and for a large part because it costs much more than in other countries (I believe 50% more or so. 15%or so of the GIP in the US, 10% or so in other countries. Just out of my head, so I might be mistaken).
The latter issue (healthcare costs) is often discussed in great debates, and caused by various factors : significantly higher wages for the doctors, uneeded exams prescribed, redundancy of medical equipment in competing hospitals, litigations, lack of preventive care resulting eventually in costly treatments (the patient will wait and wait and wait because he doesn’t have an insurance, and eventually will show up in an emergency room with a seriously deteriorated condition requiring costly medical care) , inneficiencies of the private healthcare system (in particular much more paperwork but also plainly the profits made by private insurers), of course higher prices for drugs, etc…
Payment methods are something I didn’t even think about, which I think is in itself a demonstration of how the British NHS works. There’s no concept of money being paid, or invoices or bills being issued - you’d be given a strange look if you even asked what the total cost of the treatment was. I could spend six months in hospital and have to worry about finances less than if I were at home (Of course, there’s people who know the true cost of it all, but they don’t see sunlight very often…)
For issuing drugs, there’s a flat-rate ‘prescription charge’, which IIRC is £6.80, typically for a month’s prescription. As expected, this is waived for children, the elderly, etc. It also doesn’t apply to certain contraceptions, for example, and also people with some long-term conditions are given exemption. (And even that price being raised is a minor political issue in itself.)
A side aspect that you don’t often hear mentioned: I’m convinced that our medicare system in Canada, and the equivalents in other western countries, contribute to the marked difference in the litigation rates, compared to the U.S.
If you are involved in an accident in the U.S. that results in medical care being neeed, the chances are good that litigation will result, either because a) you don’t have enough medical coverage and so you have to find deep pockets to cover your medical bills, or b) you do have medical coverage, and your insurer will sue the other party to try to recover its pay-out for your medical bills.
By contrast, if you don’t have to worry about medical bills because of socialised medicare, personal injury litigation is more likely to be driven by the nature of the injury you’ve sustained, rather than to recover health care costs. So the litigation tends to focus on truly serious cases with significant personal injury that has long-term effects, rather than being a routine reaction to personal injury. Plus, the damages tend not to be as high, because you’re not sueing to recover your health care costs, but things like loss of earning capacity, compensation for the injury itself, and so on.
In summary, I would argue that the U.S. private health care funding system is a root cause of the extremely litigious personal injury bar. John Edwards isn’t a parasite on the U.S. medical system; he’s a perfectly defensible, economically driven reaction to the private nature of that system.
I lived in France for one year and on the one time when I needed it, I got a docotr’s appointment on the first day. The same has always been true when I’ve needed a doctor in the United States, so go figure. My dad recently had a nasty run in with our health care system (had severe stomach pains, went to ER, doctor poked him a couple times and told him to go to sleep and he’d feel better in the morning, bill was $2,000), so he’s way in favor of the European systems.
It’s certainly true that any medical system works better on a smaller scale. The real problem with the United States system is that the bureaucracy just sprawls and sprawls, and according to an article I read recently costs $300 billion per year, or in other words over $1,000 per person.
My experience has been great, but then I haven’t been all that sick.
I choose my own GP - and when she went on maternity leave, I was able to shop around and find a new one I was happy with at minimal cost to me. I can pretty well always get an appointment the same day I call/turn up with her or someone in her clinic.
My runings with the emergency room have also been great - when I sprained by ankle playing basketball (on a Saturday afernoon), I was seen within an hour, x-rayed, strapped, loaned crutches and home within 2 hours, with pain killers, follow up physio appointments and x-rays arranged and my local GP notified - all at no cost to me.
My sister who has had some health woes requiring trips to the emergency room has also been seen within an hour or so, and been in a bed on a ward within a couple of hours when it was required - with the specialists she needed seeing her the same day. Again, at no cost to her.
My grandma, who died a couple of months ago got the best treatment available - right to the level of being provided with wheelchairs for use at home, ocupational therapists coming to her home to help them to modify it allow her to come home, and a full setup (with nurses on call) to allow her to die at home - in a hospital bed, with her oncologist and palliative care specialist making home visits, nurses dressing her wounds, pain killers and chemotherapy administered - even the hospital chaplain visiting. All at no cost.
There can be a waiting list for elective surgery - my other sister’s partner needs a shoulder reconstruction, and he has to wait several months for that, but when it happens, it won’t cost them a cent. If he had private insurance, he would be seen immediately.
As for me, since I started working, I’ve taken out private health insurance. This allows me things like private rooms in hospital, dental and optical cover, physiotherapy, massage, naturopathy, even subsidised gym membership. I have the top level of cover available (both hospital and extras) and it costs me $70 per month, which really isn’t much at all.
Yes, we have problems with overcrowding in some hospitals, but by an large, it you’re old or sick, Australia’s a pretty good place to be.
The only problem I have with Quebec’s healthcare system is that I can’t find a GP who’s taking on new patients. I don’t have a family doctor, and haven’t had one since I was 10. I go to a clinic when I get sick, and one of the 6 or 7 doctors there takes care of me. They’re excellent and I’ve always received wonderful care there, but if I have a condition that needs following, it gets complicated.
For example, I went to a doctor a few weeks ago to talk about my depression and ask about my options. She refused to prescribe antidepressants because I have no family doctor to follow my treatment. And since I can’t afford therapy, well, I’m eating a lot of chocolate. Yes, there are some free sessions available to me, but there’s a long waiting list, especially since I’m Anglophone, and I’d have to go very far out of my way to get there. And even if I did, I only get something like 8 hours worth, and that’s it. The mental health resources around here could definitely use some work.
The lack of availability of family doctors around here is terrible, and I think the rest of the healthcare system is hurting because of it. Some people go to the ER for a cough, because they don’t know where else to go. Hospital overcrowding is a big problem here all the time - you hear of ERs closing their doors because they’re overloaded with patients on chairs and beds in the hallways.
But then, I’ve had my appendix out, kidney stones lithotripsied, and my nasal septum fixed so I could breathe properly, and I didn’t have to pay for any of it. I needed things fixed, and they got fixed, fairly quickly, without cost to me. So I guess I’m happy enough with our system here. It’s not perfect, but it manages to look after people’s health well enough without them needing to sell their homes to pay for it.
Gosh, everybody’s responses have been so great. I must say that for the most part, I’m terribly jealous.
My insurance costs approximately $220 per month (for myself and my son), it generally takes 2 days or so to get an appt with my doctor and the last time I had prescriptions filled, it was 40 dollars for Allegra D, 25 for Z-pak and 10 for BC pills.
I took my son (then 9 yrs old) to the ER last November because he was vomiting, light sensitive and couldn’t sit up or move his head much (OMGMENINGITIS!!) and it probably took them close to an hour to get him in. I was frantic, of course. Turned out to be a standard flu gone south and so they prescribed antibiotics and sent us on our way about 12 hours later. We sat for HOURS with no assistance, him lying on a small hospital bed and me tearing my hair out and trying not to cry.
I’m terribly, terribly jealous of most of you. frump
Here in Toronto I can vouch for the difficulty of finding a “family doctor” in the city. I want to get a general checkup, and I don’t know where to go.
Other than that I have few complaints; I go to a walk-in clinic, show my health card (the ID that shows I’m a member of the provincial health-insurance system, OHIP–it looks like my drivers’ license but is green instead of blue), wait, and get treated.
When my dad had to go to emergency because of a drug overdose (self-administered pills and short-term memory-loss don’t mix, kids), it was pretty crowded, and he laid on a bed in the corridor. But that was a few years ago and I think they’ve expanded the hospital. He now lives in a small town, anyways, far from the city, and my cousin is head nurse at the hospital there. But we still didn’t have to pay anything.
My father’s various services–home care, the visiting nurse, and such–are handled by the Ministry of Social Services and by organizations such as Community Care and the Victorian Order of Nurses. I’m not clear on the precise organization here, but I’m fairly sure that it eventually is paid by the government, and thus ultimately the taxpayer.
Again, no pay if you can qualify. Sometimes you can’t; we’re trying to get him a scooter, and we were told that he doesn’t qualify even though last spring he fell and broke his hip, and even before that, he couldn’t get across the room without his walker. The social worker said that he still had too much mobility. (No, we didn’t have to pay anything for the emergency visit and the hospital stay after his surgery. We thought he was going to get a replacement hip that night, but it turned out to not be necessary. The doctor told me that there was a three month or more wait for elective hip-replacement surgery.)
Dental care, and many drugs that are not part of hospital stays, are not covered by OHIP. Most employers have insurance plans, or you can buy your own. Otherwise you pay. I wonder whether the fact that family doctors are hard to find while dentists are all over the place has something to do with this.
OHIP has been in the habit of ‘delisting’ things lately though: for instance, as of November 1, they apparently will not pay for eye exams. There have been strikes in the home-care organizations as well for higher pay. This is the kind of action that striikes me as being penny-wise and pound-foolish, because spending that money now means that we’ll catch problems now before they become much more expensive later.
Looking at my last pay stub, I see that for a two-week period, I (a single 41-year-old male with no dependents) paid:
$3.74 for dental insurance.
$3.89 for health insurance.
$17.56 for long-term disability insurance.
$1.24 for group life insurance.
And $425.78 in taxes (around 25 %) to the federal and provincial governments.
I think that two reasons that the US health-care system is so much more expensive on a per-capita basis are profit-taking and billing complexity–and I do not think that profit-taking, even with the much higher drug prices, is the main reason. I have read threads there that state that US hospitals have entire departments to handle patient billing, that simply aren’t needed in Canadian hospitals.
I’ve expreienced this phenomenon in 2 different countries (Spain and the U.K.) as an American needing somewhat urgent (but relatively minor, thankfully) care while visiting.
The first time was as a student in Spain. We were supposed to be covered by the national system, but had just arrived and not gotten our ID cards yet. I came down with strep throat (I’ve had it a bunch of times and know the symptoms all too well) and walked into 3 different clinics trying to get a doctor to see me, telling them upfront that I was perfectly willing to pay out of pocket and pretty much knew what was going on, and needed antibiotics. Nobody knew what to do with me; they sent me away to continue wandering the streets of Madrid with a 102-degree fever.
Finally an ER doctor took pity on me, looked down my throat, confirmed my suspicions, and sent me on my way with a prescription for penicillin. I asked him what I owed, and he just laughed and told me nobody would ever be able to figure it out, so I shouldn’t bother.
The second time was about a year ago, in semi-rural England. My foot was acting up, and having had many issues with that foot over the past few years (involving a plate and screws - don’t ask), I was worried about a stress fracture or something. My experience in the U.S. (I speak from experience, having had 3 different foot and ankle specialists) probably would have been a CT scan (or at least an X-ray) to rule out something major, followed maybe by physical therapy and prescription anti-inflammatories, and it would take 2-6 weeks to get to see my ortho specialist (he’s a big sht, so there is a long wait).
In the U.K., my friend got me in to see her GP the same day, who asked some questions, examined my foot with nothing but hands and eyeballs, told me I had plantar fascitis and to stay off the foot for a couple of days and use a topical analgesic, which cost 99p over the counter. They’d told me upfront the visit would cost 25 GBP because I’m not covered by the NHS, which I was perfectly willing to pay, but in the end I had the same experience as in Spain. The treatment worked perfectly well, and I was good as new in a couple of days.
Out-of-pocket cost for emergency treatment (ambulance, ER, one night in hospital for observation) of severely shattered leg bones in U.S., 2 days before insurance kicked in at new job? About $4,500.
Yes, there are some free sessions available to me, but there’s a long waiting list, especially since I’m Anglophone, and I’d have to go very far out of my way to get there. And even if I did, I only get something like 8 hours worth, and that’s it. The mental health resources around here could definitely use some work.
But we still didn’t have to pay anything.