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  #1  
Old 12-02-2004, 08:41 PM
Kel Varnsen - Latex Division Kel Varnsen - Latex Division is offline
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Revenge of the Nerds - Making a Joke of Rape

What is wrong with this movie? How can people make a joke out of rape? I am so sure that the cheerleader would fall in love with the nerd after he raped her. And let's not forget these nerds also broke into the sorority and set up cameras to film these young women naked.

Was morality really so much different when this movie was released that we are not only supposed to find these activities funny, but we are also supposed to cheer for the people committing these horrible acts. I wonder if the message this movie sent out made people think it was a good idea to rape a woman to get her to fall in love as long as it wasn't a violent rape. Does anybody here think the rape in this movie was funny?

*This might be better suited for the Pit, but it involves a movie. Please move it if you think it would be better.
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  #2  
Old 12-02-2004, 08:43 PM
silenus silenus is offline
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Decaf, Kel. Decaf.
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2004, 08:48 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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What is wrong with Revenge of the Nerds?

Is this a trick question or soemthing?
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2004, 08:55 PM
tracer tracer is offline
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But was it really rape?

I mean,
SPOILER:
she consented, because she thought the guy behind the Darth Vader mask was her boyfriend.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2004, 08:59 PM
Kel Varnsen - Latex Division Kel Varnsen - Latex Division is offline
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How about if

SPOILER:
your parents had a costume party and some guy with the same costume as your dad and had sex with with your mom because she thought it was her husband. Would you call that rape? Would you say she consented to have sex with the guy?
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2004, 09:07 PM
GuanoLad GuanoLad is online now
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I'd call it deception, I wouldn't call it rape.

There was consent, just no knowledge of who the man behind the mask was.
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2004, 09:17 PM
lisacurl lisacurl is offline
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I looked up the law for simple rape in my state and it has language which states, "When the female victim submits under the belief that the person committing the act is her husband and such belief is intentionally induced by any artifice, pretense, or concealment practiced by the offender." If the person committing the act was not her husband, but she consented due to mistaken identity, it might be sexual battery.

Of course, I don't think Revenge of the Nerds is that deep, really.
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  #8  
Old 12-02-2004, 09:17 PM
Kel Varnsen - Latex Division Kel Varnsen - Latex Division is offline
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Most courts have consistently held that this is fraud-in-the-factum and thus rape.

See:
Regina v. Dee, 15 Cox Crim. Cas. 579
Schlhofer, Unwanted Sex, Note 1
R. v. Elbekkay, Crim. L. R. 163

This is taken from Understanding Criminal Law by Joshua Dressler.
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  #9  
Old 12-02-2004, 09:24 PM
E. Thorp E. Thorp is offline
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Merits of the movie (or the legal argument) aside, I seem to remember that as of 1983 the truism that "rape is about power, not sex" was not yet universal in pop culture, and that jokes involving rape were, for better or worse, still to be found on the continuum of sex jokes. Maybe on the borderline, and I'm not saying this was a good thing...just that there was somewhat less pop awareness then than now. So the answer to "How can people make a joke of rape?" is...they just did. Racist jokes used to be more common too.

Of course, I was only 16 when the movie came out, so maybe it's just me who was less aware.
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  #10  
Old 12-02-2004, 10:16 PM
Bleaker Bleaker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen - Latex Division
And let's not forget these nerds also broke into the sorority and set up cameras to film these young women naked.

Was morality really so much different when this movie was released that we are not only supposed to find these activities funny, but we are also supposed to cheer for the people committing these horrible acts.
No, it wasn't so different. Wasn't it American Pie (1999) in which a teenage boy set up a hidden webcam in the room of a hot foreign exchange student staying in his house, to broadcast video of her changing clothes to his friends?
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  #11  
Old 12-02-2004, 11:26 PM
Interrobang!? Interrobang!? is offline
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen - Latex Division
What is wrong with this movie? How can people make a joke out of rape? I am so sure that the cheerleader would fall in love with the nerd after he raped her.
I saw this movie for the first time on video back when I was maybe 15 -- so 1985 or so. I don't remember thinking much of anything about that scene. Maybe it was because I was a horny young man, but I think some of it was because that kind of deception was not popularly considered rape at the time.

When I saw that part of the movie on TV a year or so ago, though, the scene made me extremely uncomfortable, basically because yes, you sure could consider it a rape scene.

Of course, it was a movie, and people sometimes accept behavior in movies that they won't accept in real life. And, most importantly, the reaction of the victim isn't shock and horror -- she enjoys the experience. I'm sure it could be argued that she wasn't raped at all, given that she didn't consider it rape, but I'm not familiar with Nerdville rape law circa 1983.

That said, I wouldn't be comfortable watching that scene again today, and not because I think <em>Revenge of the Nerds</em> is a fairly crappy movie. (Actually, for an early '80s sex comedy, it's not bad. High praise indeed.)
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2004, 12:20 AM
Freejooky Freejooky is offline
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What about A Clockwork Orange? Widely considered a classic across the board, it features a hilarious rape scene. Rape, like anything else offensive, can be not just funny but hilarious when handled correctly.

Prison Rape has been recurring comedic motif in films since Cool Hand Luke, and probably before. Is it less offensive because it's homosexual rape?

Also, bestiality and rape-by-animals have come into vogue in even lighthearted romantic comedies. While they've been mostly unfunny attempts, more adventurous comedy sources have successfully navigated that territory.

But all of that's neither here nor there. Isn't it specifically implied in Nerds that the mask only serves to get the girl "into position" (so to speak), but she's turned on when she realizes it's the nerd and closes the deal?
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2004, 01:44 AM
Larry Mudd Larry Mudd is offline
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Originally Posted by Freejooky
What about A Clockwork Orange? Widely considered a classic across the board, it features a hilarious rape scene. Rape, like anything else offensive, can be not just funny but hilarious when handled correctly.
Uh, the rape scenes in A Clockwork Orange were chilling -- particularly because they were so casually gleeful.

WTF?
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2004, 02:04 AM
NinjaChick NinjaChick is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freejooky
What about A Clockwork Orange? Widely considered a classic across the board, it features a hilarious rape scene. Rape, like anything else offensive, can be not just funny but hilarious when handled correctly.

Prison Rape has been recurring comedic motif in films since Cool Hand Luke, and probably before. Is it less offensive because it's homosexual rape?
Hah, yeah, when presented "correctly" is funny as hell, isn't it?

Oh, wait, actually - it's not. Neither is, for example, child abuse or homicide.
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Old 12-03-2004, 02:17 AM
Ellis Dee Ellis Dee is offline
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Originally Posted by NinjaChick
Hah, yeah, when presented "correctly" is funny as hell, isn't it?

Oh, wait, actually - it's not. Neither is, for example, child abuse or homicide.
Wrong. Humor can indeed involve rape, child abuse, or homicide, and sometimes all three.

Bill Cosby's famous "I'm you're father, I brought you into this world, and I can take you out" nicely combines child abuse and homicide, and he's considered one of the "cleanest" comedians.

Last year there was a news story about the world's funniest joke, and it revolved around hunters and death.

An example cited upthread about the costume party was an actual joke in Playboy's jokes page not two months ago.

This thread is exactly why there is a backlash against political correctness. Lighten up, people.
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2004, 02:18 AM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen - Latex Division
How can people make a joke out of rape?
How can people manufacture/buy/purchase video games featuring car-jackings and random violence? How can people watch "The Real Guilligan's Island"? How can people put ketchup on a Hot-Dog?

Its a fucked-up world. Get used to it and things will be easier on you.
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2004, 02:18 AM
Ephemera Ephemera is offline
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I can't speak for child abuse or rape as I've not seen it much in the movies I watch but homicide can definitely be funny depending on the context. I love black comedies and there're plenty of humorous deaths in that genre.

And did you never laugh at Looney Tunes? While none of the characters died in those cartoons, it sure as hell wasn't from a lack of trying.
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2004, 03:38 AM
Scissorjack Scissorjack is offline
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I'm with Kel on this one: I saw the movie when I was 16 and it first came out - agreed, PC was hardly rampant in that era - and it creeped me out even then.

Mind you, a lot of sex-based jokes in movies date very quickly {probably rightly so, IMHO - hopefully we have progressed a little}: remember Leslie Neilsen and the young boy Billy in the cockpit in Airplane {1979?} - "Have you ever seen a grown man naked?" Anyone writing paedophile jokes for cheap laughs now would probably be burnt at the stake.

Or count the rape scenes in early 70's movies - Clint Eastwood's High Plains Drifter {1972?} springs to mind, where he casually rapes a woman on two different occasions, and she enjoys it each time. Actually, count the number of pre-90's Eastwood movies that feature rape scenes.

I don't think it is the dreaded PC monster; rather that many {I would say most, but I'm not that optimistic} people have come to accept that certain types of humour are offensive, and movie studios have responded accordingly.
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2004, 04:04 AM
Lobot Lobot is offline
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Originally Posted by Case Sensitive
Mind you, a lot of sex-based jokes in movies date very quickly {probably rightly so, IMHO - hopefully we have progressed a little}: remember Leslie Neilsen and the young boy Billy in the cockpit in Airplane {1979?} - "Have you ever seen a grown man naked?" Anyone writing paedophile jokes for cheap laughs now would probably be burnt at the stake.
It was funny back then not because people used to think paedophilia was A-OK (they didn't) or that it really wasn't that big a deal. Rather, it was because it was totally innappropriate, especially in an aeroplane disaster movie (which of course was the genre being parodied). In my opinion, it remains funny for that very reason.

(I don't think it was Leslie Nielson, by the way.)
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2004, 04:18 AM
jjimm jjimm is offline
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Things have changed, I think. Just the other day I was remembering a particular scene out of Animal House, where a character's conscience, expressed as a miniature angel and a devil, is arguing over whether he should have sex with his date, who has fallen comatose under the influence of alcohol, and I remember thinking that this was funny at the time. But now I just go "eugh, date rape".
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  #21  
Old 12-03-2004, 07:16 AM
Peter Morris Peter Morris is offline
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The first few Marx Brothers movies showed Harpo as a would-be rapist. Each showed the "joke" of a pretty young woman running away with Harpo in persuit.

They stopped doing it after a while. Perhaps it occurred to them that it's not funny.
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2004, 07:27 AM
Harborwolf Harborwolf is offline
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I am higly concerned about this. Think of how many kids today get their morals from the "Revenge of the Nerds" movies, or their knowledge of the law from "Police Academy." I once found myself quite taken with the idea of breaking and entering after watching "The Burbs."

Ya'll really need to lighten up.
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2004, 07:33 AM
Scumpup Scumpup is offline
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It wasn't Leslie Nielsen who asked Billy if he'd ever seen a grown man naked. It was Peter Graves.
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  #24  
Old 12-03-2004, 07:34 AM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is offline
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Quote:
Hah, yeah, when presented "correctly" is funny as hell, isn't it?
Well, there IS this one scene in Pedro Almodovar's Kika...

Though of course, the joke is not the rape itself, it's people's (including the victim's) absurd reactions. Then again this IS Almodovar...


Lobot is right about the Graves/Billy sequence in Airplane! -- it's about the absurdity of the scenario. However I do agree with Case Sensitive that it would not be greenlighted today, for fear of causing offense.
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  #25  
Old 12-03-2004, 08:00 AM
delphica delphica is offline
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Originally Posted by Ellis Dee
Wrong. Humor can indeed involve rape, child abuse, or homicide, and sometimes all three.

Bill Cosby's famous "I'm you're father, I brought you into this world, and I can take you out" nicely combines child abuse and homicide, and he's considered one of the "cleanest" comedians.

Last year there was a news story about the world's funniest joke, and it revolved around hunters and death.

An example cited upthread about the costume party was an actual joke in Playboy's jokes page not two months ago.

This thread is exactly why there is a backlash against political correctness. Lighten up, people.

I agree with this for the most part, but the difference that I'm seeing between Bill Cosby on the one side and A Clockwork Orange on the other is that part of Bill's humor comes from the fact that the audience can make the assumption that he's not really going to take out one of this kids, while in ACO, the rape is happening while you watch. I'm sort of amazed, to be honest, that ACO came up as an example in this thread, because it's never occurred to me that the scene was being played straight for laughs -- the humor that the characters find in the situation is supposed to contrast (IMHO) with the reaction of the audience. I think the film's goal is to use this contrast to create discomfort, not knee-slapping guffaws. Obviously that's open to interpretation. Revenge of the Nerds is aiming for the knee-slapping guffaws.

More recently, I saw a movie about a guy who takes a vow of celibacy for 40 days. I think that might be what it's called, now that I think about it, 40 Days. It's not a very good movie, it did have a few somewhat funny moments. Right up until the part where
SPOILER:

Wait, first the set up. The guy's friends have started taking bets as to when he will break his vow, the premise being that he'll never last forty days. The celibate guy, as the end of the forty days is approaching, is hand-cuffed to a bed by his roommate, and his ex-girlfriend comes into the room, and despite his repeated, verbal, blunt refusals to have sex with her throughout the film, mounts herself on him. The scene starts showing the guy having an erotic dream (the other running joke being that the celibacy is pretty near about to kill him), but he wakes to realize that the dream is in fact happening. The roommate and the ex-girlfriend have conspired to win the large pot of money by controling the time when he breaks the vow.


I found this jaw-droppingly oogy.
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  #26  
Old 12-03-2004, 08:02 AM
BubbaDog BubbaDog is offline
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Spoilers=Kel Varnsen - Latex Division

SPOILER:
your parents had a costume party and some guy with the same costume as your dad and had sex with with your mom because she thought it was her husband.


Why am I reminded of the Batman / Superman challange? Godzilla/Bambi?

SPOILER:

Would you call that rape?

I'd call it downright stupid on mom's part. I'd be hoping that there was an accidental switch at the hospital and I got the wrong set of parents. Mom wanted to have sex with the gorilla suit. She should really check to make sure that dad was the only one at the party in the suit.

SPOILER:

Would you say she consented to have sex with the guy?

Yep And I think the lawmakers in lisacurl's state watch too much television and bad movies.

My two cents: That scene in The Revenge of the Nerds was in bad taste. Movies today that strive for the same kind of audiance and humor do the same thing.
Bad taste (Jimmy, Do you ever watch gladiator movies?) is cheap but it always has produced a chuckle for people who don't have high expectations and are capable of telling that they are not experiencing a reality.
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Old 12-03-2004, 08:04 AM
BubbaDog BubbaDog is offline
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Is there any kind of expiration on spoiler requirements? Revenge of the Nerds has to be around 20 years old.
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  #28  
Old 12-03-2004, 08:31 AM
Gyrate Gyrate is offline
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I'm reminded of the Onion article where the guy imitates many of the behaviors found in your run-of-the-mill romantic comedy. Whereas in the films his persistent professions of love and overblown romantic gestures would eventually win her heart, the guy ends up getting slapped with a restraining order.

I can't say I found RotN all that funny -- heck, the bit where they sell pornographic "pies" disturbed me even at the time -- but worrying about the legal implications of the real life application of the situation was not a particular concern.
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  #29  
Old 12-03-2004, 08:38 AM
Rune Rune is offline
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Sound like a moronic movie, but if you’re fifteen, had a few beers and a bit of weed with your buddies I recon it could be fun – but perhaps you are of the opinion that rape is a fate worse that death, because I don’t see your knickers in a twist over all those many movies making fun of killing, and you wouldn’t even need to hark back twenty years. If it’s fun to watch a guy get killed, I suppose it can be fun to watch a girl being raped – even keeping in mind that there are rapes and then there are rapes, this certainly sound like the former. What about Trading Places with Eddie Murphy, some guy gets raped by a gorilla. Awful stuff?
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  #30  
Old 12-03-2004, 09:03 AM
Incubus Incubus is offline
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Pffft, that's nothing. There's an episode of The Simpsons where
SPOILER:
Homer gets raped by a panda. A male panda!


Oh the humanity!
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  #31  
Old 12-03-2004, 09:58 AM
kidchameleon kidchameleon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Case Sensitive
Or count the rape scenes in early 70's movies - Clint Eastwood's High Plains Drifter {1972?} springs to mind, where he casually rapes a woman on two different occasions, and she enjoys it each time. Actually, count the number of pre-90's Eastwood movies that feature rape scenes.
Of course, that was like Necrophelia in a way, too.

He sort of got raped in a Dirty Harry movie, where he was all tied up.
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  #32  
Old 12-03-2004, 10:03 AM
Gangster Octopus Gangster Octopus is offline
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Deception isn't enough for it to be rape, I would think. I would think she would have to object ex-post as well. In the movie, she clearly didn't, so no rape.
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  #33  
Old 12-03-2004, 10:06 AM
dropzone dropzone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaDog
Bad taste (Jimmy, Do you ever watch gladiator movies?) is cheap but it always has produced a chuckle for people who don't have high expectations and are capable of telling that they are not experiencing a reality.
Wait--the scene in RotN is in bad taste. That scene in "Airplane" is in astonishingly bad taste and was even worse 25 years ago when child abuse wasn't spoken about. That is why RotN is maybe mildly amusing and "Airplane" is hilarious: the makers were willing to make something so over the top and unexpected that a laugh is dragged out of you even as you cringe.

Then there is
Quote:
Hedley Lamarr: Qualifications?
Applicant: Rape, murder, arson, and rape.
Hedley Lamarr: You said rape twice.
Applicant: I like rape.
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  #34  
Old 12-03-2004, 10:17 AM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delphica
I'm sort of amazed, to be honest, that ACO came up as an example in this thread, because it's never occurred to me that the scene was being played straight for laughs -- the humor that the characters find in the situation is supposed to contrast (IMHO) with the reaction of the audience.
Agreed. The droogs are so sociopathic they think it the height of fun to rape and kill, even though their assaults are totally brutal and nasty. It's not making fun of rape or playing it for laughs.
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  #35  
Old 12-03-2004, 10:24 AM
Marley23 Marley23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Morris
The first few Marx Brothers movies showed Harpo as a would-be rapist. Each showed the "joke" of a pretty young woman running away with Harpo in persuit.

They stopped doing it after a while. Perhaps it occurred to them that it's not funny.
Calling that rape is abusing the word. You're probably right that Harpo was less girl-crazy in the later movies, but I'd point to Thalberg and MGM as the reason.
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  #36  
Old 12-03-2004, 11:09 AM
silenus silenus is offline
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Can those who object to this scene please tell me an example of humor that meets their "enlightened" standards? All humor involves something objectionable to somebody.

"Tragedy is when I skin my knee; Comedy is when you fall down a manhole and die." - to paraphrase Mel Brooks
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  #37  
Old 12-03-2004, 11:21 AM
ivylass ivylass is offline
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My problem with RotN is the pie sale...because a picture of a topless WhatsHerName is at the bottom of the pie pan, then covered with whipped cream.

To me, that's just as bad as the You're Not Having Sex With Who You Think You Are scene, because it's harassment, exploitation, what have you. That picture was taken without her knowledge, and now it's being used to sell pies.

That said, the music scene at the fair was fantastic.
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  #38  
Old 12-03-2004, 11:36 AM
kingpengvin kingpengvin is offline
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Originally Posted by Harborwolf
I am higly concerned about this. Think of how many kids today get their morals from the "Revenge of the Nerds" movies, or their knowledge of the law from "Police Academy."
.

"We live in a society of laws. Why do you think I took you to all those Police Academy movies? For fun? Well, I didn't hear anybody laughing, did you?"

--sorry couldn't resist---
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  #39  
Old 12-03-2004, 11:40 AM
Nonsuch Nonsuch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freejooky
But all of that's neither here nor there. Isn't it specifically implied in Nerds that the mask only serves to get the girl "into position" (so to speak), but she's turned on when she realizes it's the nerd and closes the deal?
No; she isn't aware it's Louis until after the act is complete.

I think some of you are overlooking the "point" of the scene, which is to contrast the sensitive Louis with Betty's asshole jock boyfriend Stan. She tells Louis, thinking he's Stan, that "You did things to me you've never done before." Obviously Stan is a preening, narcissist jerkoff who is only concerned with his own pleasure; he probably makes Betty sleep on the wet spot, or perform oral sex on him without returning the favor (it's fairly obvious that's one of the "things" Betty was talking about); he probably comes really quickly and then rolls over and passes out. This is a man, remember, who would rather pump iron than get it on with his girlfriend; Stan really longs to make love only to himself, and thus the pleasure he gives Betty is necessarily limited and crude.

Now, does that make it "all right"? In the real world, no. But melodrama has always been full of what they used to call "ravishing," borderline-violent sexual encounters in which (usually) a man overcomes a woman's resistance physically, only to be accepted by her in the end. The idea was that even while the woman knew she ought to refuse, because she was engaged to someone else or had taken a vow of chastity or whatever, she really deep down didn't want to. This is the essence of the so-called "rape fantasy" that so many men persist in misunderstanding: the "fantasy" is being able to submit to a sexual encounter the woman knows to be wrong for one reason or another, but craves anyway. By forcing himself upon her, he in effect relieves the woman of responsibility for it, ergo, sex without guilt. (I seem to recall a rash of soap operas using this device in the 80s and critics getting upset over it.)

How does this relate to RotN? Well, it could be argued that Betty was with Stan mostly for reasons of social status and that he was, in reality, a jerk who was no good for her; she was in the market for someone better, but she didn't know it yet. Louis' subterfuge, while despicable in one respect, does allow her to break free from Stan and find True Love—and what's melodrama (or bad 80s comedy) without True Love?

You could argue that this is a disgustingly retrograde attitude about sex, and I wouldn't disagree, but that's human nature. There's a reason clichés of this type are so popular—they speak to real people's needs and fears.

Let me conclude by saying that I'm totally stoked to have written all this high-falutin shit about Revenge of the Nerds. My graduate degree pays off again! Perhaps I should think about presenting at a conference ...
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  #40  
Old 12-03-2004, 11:50 AM
newcrasher newcrasher is offline
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I find the use of spoiler boxes in a thread about Revenge of the Nerds amusing.

Silly Latex Division...
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  #41  
Old 12-03-2004, 12:13 PM
kingpengvin kingpengvin is offline
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Hmmmm Revenge of the Nerds is pretty well replete with offensive stereotypes,

SPOILER:
I mean no one wants to make hay with the depiction of Homosexuals as mincing fairies? Or how about a Black fraternaty that acts and looks like a Black Panther organization, or worse how they are feared by the jocks because they are black?
How about the use of drugs and alcohol by a minor? How about just the gross bodily function jokes



I find the whole movie to be another of what they now call "gross out comedies" It is offensive and meant to be so that the parents will be shocked and the teens it's geared to will want to see what is getting everyone all riled up. It even wraps it all up with a "feel good" message to cover its meanspirited attitudes. This is pretty typical of a teen movie, if you want to be offended you can go ahead but that was the part of the job of this film.
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  #42  
Old 12-03-2004, 01:13 PM
gigi gigi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangster Octopus
Deception isn't enough for it to be rape, I would think. I would think she would have to object ex-post as well. In the movie, she clearly didn't, so no rape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interrobang!?
I'm sure it could be argued that she wasn't raped at all, given that she didn't consider it rape, but I'm not familiar with Nerdville rape law circa 1983.
Interesting question. Legally the victim has to also consider it rape for it to be rape? What if prosecutors somehow find out about a victim who is one of a number of victims by the same person? Can they prosecute someone on that basis (on behalf of the State I assume) even if the victim doesn't consider it rape? People certainly talk themselves out of believing they were raped when they were.

I'm creeped out by the rape scene in "Revenge of the Nerds" and
SPOILER:
as cited above, what I also consider to be rape in "40 Days and 40 Nights"
. Less disturbing than depiction of a violent stranger rape but unsettling nonetheless.
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  #43  
Old 12-03-2004, 01:29 PM
aaslatten aaslatten is offline
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[QUOTE=gigi]Interesting question. Legally the victim has to also consider it rape for it to be rape? What if prosecutors somehow find out about a victim who is one of a number of victims by the same person? Can they prosecute someone on that basis (on behalf of the State I assume) even if the victim doesn't consider it rape? People certainly talk themselves out of believing they were raped when they were.

QUOTE]

Technically, they probably could prosecute without the victim's cooperation, just as they have tried to prosecute spousal abuse cases when the victim is reluctant, but I doubt if they would. What kind of rape case would they have without the victim's testimony?

Although the OP has stimulated some interesting discussion, I have to agree with those saying everyone just needs to lighten up. I mean, really, think of all the other crimes against humanity (as well as lesser sins that have been made fun of in the movies and TV over the years: murder, suicide, drunkenness, wife beating ("One of these days Alice..."), racism, etc. It's all part-and-parcel of low comedy; that's why it's called "low."
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  #44  
Old 12-03-2004, 02:17 PM
SlyFrog SlyFrog is offline
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Yes, my memory from criminal law classes is that under most (I'd say all, but I'm not that confident) U.S. laws pretending to be someone else (sneaking into the dark room and pretending to be the husband) is deemed rape.

On the "am I just being PC" subject: I am rarely deemed "too PC," but the movie that has always creeped me out a bit is M*A*S*H*. Wahahahah, the nurse resists our advances but is actually a sanctimonious hypocrit. Clearly the funny, and not at all wrong, revenge is to literally strip away all of her dignity by displaying her naked to the entire camp.

Bwahahahah, bitch deserved it. Right. I believe the movie actually displays this in a way that you are supposed to side with the doctors who "gave her what's coming to her."
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  #45  
Old 12-03-2004, 02:42 PM
kingpengvin kingpengvin is offline
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I think maybe we should view films in their cultural context.

For example M*A*S*H*:
By today's standards "Hot Lips" was the victim of prolonged sexual harrasment and worked in a hostile work environment. A poor woman driven over the brink by the men.

Also Frank Burns' (In the film not the show) treatment, especially regarding his religious convictions, was also cruel. Come to think of it if they made that movie today would they excise out all the cheap shots at religion?

In 1970 They were seen more as a symbol of both of the old sexual repression, the religious zealots and the Military establishment. The acts were against those things, Frank and Margaret were merely the physical manifestations of the hypocrisy of the institutions.

The audience then would root for the "taking down a peg or two" of those people for what they represented not for who they were.

Mind you, they were people and not institutions on the screen so I can understand someone being bothered by it.
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  #46  
Old 12-03-2004, 02:47 PM
Dewey Cheatem Undhow Dewey Cheatem Undhow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyFrog
On the "am I just being PC" subject: I am rarely deemed "too PC," but the movie that has always creeped me out a bit is M*A*S*H*. Wahahahah, the nurse resists our advances but is actually a sanctimonious hypocrit. Clearly the funny, and not at all wrong, revenge is to literally strip away all of her dignity by displaying her naked to the entire camp.
This has always bugged me, too. In fact, a lot of their antics were more cruel than funny.

While we're on the subject, I've always been skeeved by, IIRC, Sixteen Candles, where the cute jock basically gives his drunk girlfriend to Anthony Michael Hall to have his way with.
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  #47  
Old 12-03-2004, 03:14 PM
Miller Miller is online now
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I don't think the scene in Revenge of the Nerds can be considered rape, because in the reality created by the film, sex is a casual, non-emotional, non-traumatic thing. It's a cartoon. There's a scene in the beginning where Ogre is dangling a kid head down off a second story balcony, and then accidentally drops him. Clearly, the kid would be dead in real life, but in the movie, it's played for laughs. Just as violent physical actions do not lead to realistic harm, deceptive, arguably coerced sexual encounters do not lead to realistic harm. In the context of the movie, getting fucked under false pretenses is the same as dropping an anvil on Elmer Fudd's head.

All also say, for the record, that there ain't a damn thing funny about the rape scene in A Clockword Orange. Alex and his Droogs see it as a playful, humorous situation, but the intent of the scene is to ellicit horror and revulsion in the audience, not laughs.

Now, if you want to talk about a genuinely offensive rape scene being played for laughs... anyone remember Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves? Alan Rickman desperately trying to consummate his forced marriage to Maid Marian before Kevin Costner can show up and poke some new holes in his torso? The bit that really sticks with me is the little bit of physical comedy wherein Rickman forces open Marian's legs. That was something I can't believe ever made it up onto the big screen.
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  #48  
Old 12-03-2004, 05:10 PM
MovieMogul MovieMogul is offline
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[uqote]Hedley Lamarr: Qualifications?
Applicant: Rape, murder, arson, and rape.
Hedley Lamarr: You said rape twice.
Applicant: I like rape.[/quote]The same year, Young Frankenstein had a rape scene for comic effect.
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  #49  
Old 12-03-2004, 06:15 PM
pepperlandgirl pepperlandgirl is offline
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Shoot, that was my favorite movie when I was a kid. I watched it every day. Just look at me.

I turned out ok.

Really.
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  #50  
Old 12-03-2004, 06:35 PM
Harborwolf Harborwolf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpengvin
"We live in a society of laws. Why do you think I took you to all those Police Academy movies? For fun? Well, I didn't hear anybody laughing, did you?"

--sorry couldn't resist---
That was what I was thinking of when I posted. I just couldn't think of it.

I still think that everyone here is really overanalyzing a movie called "Revenge of the Nerds." It's a stupid friggin movie.

Hell, "Weird Science" is chock full o' offensivenessosity. She spends the whole movie trying to have sex with two minors. She takes them to the bar. Teen comedies are rife with illegal and immoral behavior.

Where are you going to draw the line on here?


I'm still crossing my fingers on this being some giant, poorly concieved whoosh.
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