Will the U.S. take military action against Iran?

Back in October we had a GD thread – http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=280486 – on the possibility that the Bush Administration was already planning “regime change” in Iran – if it survived the election. Now it has, and the Pubs control both houses of Congress. So what is Bush going to do with that new level of power?

OTOH, is it possible there will be a limited strike to take out Iran’s nuclear projects – and that will be that? When the Israeli Air Force bombed Iraq’s nuclear reactor at Osirak in 1981, it did not lead to war.

From “The Coming Wars,” by Seymour Hersh, in The New Yorker, January 17, 2005, http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?050124fa_fact:

The answer is…

No.

Looks like my reply got eaten by forum gnomes.

Basically, no, though it is possible that they may use a series of targetted military strikes against “nuclear and chemical production facilities” to justify a more permanent presence in Iraq and possibly Pakistan, leaving it at a Cold War-style standoff, but generating infinite “OMG WE’RE AT WAR DO WHATEVER BUSH SAYS” from the right.

Yes.

He has political capital you know.

You have to remember. Bush calls himself a born again christian.

He needs Israel and blood to flow like rivers to make his dream come true.

He has the power to do this.

Some years ago, I came across what I thought was a very wise set of questions that should all be answered in the affirmative before the US undertakes any foreign military action*. I think the questions are especially apropos regarding any plan to take action against Iran. They are:

  1. Is it in our best interest?

  2. Can it be done?

  3. Is it “right”?

The answers re: Iran might be:

  1. Probably. Undermining a bastion of militant Islamic fundamentalism, especially if it’s replaced by a west-leaning democracy, would go a long way towards stabilizing the region and the World. This would help the US.

OTOH, the hard-feelings so engendered by such an action, even among those who currently “support” the US might well further entrench the fundamentalists.

  1. I doubt it. Given Iran’s size and given its complex internal politics, it is difficult for me to believe that any plan of military action would have an obvious yes/no or black/white outcome, especially one that would be favorable to the US.

  2. No. Pre-emptive military strikes are seldom "right’ and then only if the risk of catastrophe is imminent and other options are unavailable. Neither of these criteria seem to fit regarding Iran at present.

As an aside, when these criteria are applied to the Vietnam war, none are satisfied.

  • It may have been expressed by Strobe Talbott, but I can’t remember for sure.

IMHO, I don’t think that Iran nessitates a military action unless there is an immediate and specific threat to US interests stemming from them. Iran is better suited for a little “Strategic Influence”. Help them quietly bump off a few problem people, fund the opposition and get them in power. A coup of the youth would be far more effictive than carpet bombing. Of course this hasn’t been one of our strong points in the past (Noriega anyone?)

I’m still looking for where Bushco found that in Iraq.

Can you help me?

Meanwhile, the European countries are trying to negotiate a peaceful, voluntary freeze of Iran’s nuclear program, but the Bush Admin is trying to block that. See http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/01/18/wiran18.xml.

This seems kind of silly

I would imagine that attacks by the US are at least as likely to drive the population further into the arms of the Mullahs as they are to drive people into the arms of the secularists. After all, all that Great Satan talk is probably much more convincing when you can watch the US drop bombs on your house. Sometimes I think that some people in the current administration think that any sort of disruption will drive a formally repressive country to democracy.

Also the blurb seems to suggest that if the reformers gain more power our problems with Iran will be solved. From what I’ve heard though, the reformers are just as pro-nuclear and anti-israeli as their more religious counterparts.

I think Iraq demonstrated that the population will probably rally behind their religious leadership… unless some sort of coup d’etat is planned to follow up a sucessful strike nuclear capability air campaign.

How likely are iranians of becoming “secularists” after the US hits them ? “…the aura of invincibility which the mullahs enjoy is shattered” What “aura” ? I would think that getting hammered during the Iraq-Iran war would have left few utopian views of the government… and the proof are teh democracy movements.

I have to first say that I do not feel the US has made anything like an adequate case that Iraq is a as much of a danger to western interests as has been claimed, and to invade at this point would just as lawless an act than the invasion of Iraq. Nevertheless, given the events of the past four years, I have no trouble believing that the administration will indeed attempt some sort of military action against Iran in the near future. At this point I think it will mainly consist of a mix of covert and overt raids on presumed Iranian nuclear facilities, with a contingency plan for invasion should Iran attempt to retaliate, say, against US forces in Iraq.

I wish that it were not the case, but just from reading the excerpts from the article, the US plan seems perfectly plausible, except that 1) the administration seems wildly optimistic about the availablility of troops to carry out an invasion; 2) any major military campaign would have to go through Congress for approval (yes, I know Congress rolled over on Iraq, but this one would be a much tougher sell, particularly if a draft were involved); 3) the administration seems to maintain an absurdly naive belief that a either a large proportion of Iranians will welcome their attackers with open arms, or that the many millions of the local population simply don’t matter.

The good news is that it (IMO) would take at least a couple of years before the US could gear up for a major military campaign in Iran, although I presume that a run would be made at putting the logistics to do so in place by late this year. While air strikes or small-scale commando operations could be carried out pretty much any time, the lengthy time frame before a serious ground campaign could be lanched gives the best chance that this adventure will not take place.

Exceedingly doubtful in my opinion. First of all, the Iranian army would be a lot harder to conquer. With the military spread so thin and the draft being the third rail of politics, don’t look for an invasion. Air strikes, maybe.

(Allow me to go a bit off-topic.)

The US has long had plans to invade Iraq. They almost certainly maintain those plans.

During World War II, Iran was a southern route for Allied supplies to the Soviet Union; the northern part of Iran was controlled by Soviet forces (who must of thought it was seriously sweet duty) while the Americans and Brits protected supply lines in the south. When the war ended, the Soviets wanted to stay in the north.

We had a crises that could have ended in war, but the UN (in their first important action) told the Soviets to leave, and they did.

In any case, it has always been believed that the Soviets wanted a pro-them government in Tehran, part of the whole ‘warm water port’ thing. As a result the Americans always had plans to come from the south to save the government (then), or the oil (now).

So the US has always had plans to invade. Still does, I guess. The existence of these plans do not mean they intend to use them. (Of course their existence does not mean they DON’T intend to use them either.)

Hersh actually says as much in his article. The reason to think that military action in Iran is on the table is not because they have a plan to do it, but because they’ve increased reconnissance into the country and because Hersh’s sources say tell him its a possibility.

Personally I think the worst part of this article is the relevation that the Pentegon is launching covert ops into a country we’re technically at peace with without informing the intelligence commitee, which in my mind is a clear violation of the balance of powers. It’s also part of a disturbing trend in the last few years of the Pentagon in general pushing aside both the state dept. and the CIA and assuming their functions.

Well, first Bush doesn’t really have the political capital. He may think he does, which is all that matters to him I suppose, but that’s why you get messages from him stating that his Iraq policy was validated by his reelection, when it is clear that nearly 60 percent disagree with his handling of the Iraq war.

I’m sure that we have plans to invade Iraq, and maybe even plans to invade Saudi Arabia. Who knows?

The Neocons would obviously love to invade. You know Rummy and Wolfowitz really don’t give a damn that it isn’t going well in Iraq. They think they can do a better job next time.

But I say it won’t happen because for us to get troops to invade and take over, we need all of the troops that are in Iraq, which won’t happen because it is becoming less stable by the day, and the election in January won’t make things better.

There will be no draft. If there is the Republican party will go against it, or they will be destroyed. Sure, Bush doesn’t need to get reelected, but all of the legislators do.

If somehow there could be a draft that could provide forces that were actually useful, then I bet we’d have a war as soon as possible.

But do look for Bush to screw up any kind of diplomacy by the “Old Europe” He always has to piss in the pot somehow.

In retrospect, we should have used them.

According to a new ABC News poll, 58% of the public do not approve of the way the President has handled the war in Iraq. A clear majority feel that that terrorism is the single biggest priority the Administration has. Given that the Administration has tied the war in Iraq to the war on terrorism (it had to - there aren’t any WMD by its own admission), that doesn’t speak very highly of what the public thinks of the Bush Administration’s efforts.

He doesn’t have the support of the public, and it is unclear what support he would have from other countries.

I look for him to move ahead full speed.

Update from the Jerusalem Post, http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1106623163891:

[bites nails]

I still have my bets on it, as I have for a couple years now.

First off, we are using the exact same rhetoric that got us in to Iraq- “axis of evil”, WMDs, etc. Then, we invaded two neighboring countries and presumably will have some handy bases to fight from. I’m pretty sure our plan is just to take over the Middle East, so we won’t have to worry about it any more. The story is just way to familier for me to say it’d never happen.

I think first we’ll find some nuclear facilities or something and bomb them. Then there will be terrorist retaliation and we’ll take that as our cue to go in. My only hesitation is that I think Bush truely though Iraq would be easy, and now our troops are tied up there. I don’t know if he can pull it off in just four years.

And we are also beginning to hear about how the dissident majority would welcome us with open arms (if not flowers). I’ve no doubt there are a lot of dissidents in Iran. Whether they make up a majority is in great doubt in my mind. There were dissidents in Iraq, too. Didn’t stop us from getting mired by a resistance movement.

At any rate, i don’t think we have the manpower or the capital for this fight. I believe it is saber-rattling. (But of course, I thought that about the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, too, so…)