What's up with religious snake handlers?

[Guinastasia]

Watching an episode of City Confidential on A&E I came to wonder, just how many people still handle snakes during religious worship? (I'm talking about hardcore fundamentalist Christians)
Are they still around, and how wide-spread are they? Are they unique to certain pockets in the U.S. South, or are there some in Europe? (I know they originated somewhere in Tennessee).

How many have been killed, and what about the children during the ceremony?

Cecil himself addressed the issue, but he never really went into the details.

(Oh, and if you provide links, PLEASE make sure there aren't any pictures. I'm severely ophidiophobic-which is why I'm not about to google the term myself!)

Thanks!

[Revtim]

Sounds to me like they are testing their faith, or testing God. Isn't there something in the Bible prohibiting that, though?

[Squink]

It looks like the Church of God with Signs Following (overview, no pics) is still around in the US, with the 1,000 to 2,000 adherants mentioned by Cecil. There may also be a group of them in Australia. (also no pics)

[Polycarp]

It's a pretty fringe-y belief, even by the standards of YEC fundamentalists who are convinced that Spongebob is the Antichrist, or whatever.

Foundation for the practice, FWIW, is in the Long Ending of the Gospel According to Mark:

Then He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. And these signs will accompany those who believe: In My name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new languages; they will pick up snakes; if they should drink anything deadly, it will never harm them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will get well." (Mark 16:15-18)

I.e., handling venomous snakes without injury is a mark of the True Believer, along with a few other things like speaking in tongues, immunity to poison, and the gift of laying on hands for healing. Therefore, to prove themselves True Believers, they keep rattlers around to pick up and wave around.

[dwyr]

There are still some of these believers in eastern Ky. Usually I'll read about one or two snakebites a year in the local newspaper.

[Broomstick]

It's also common for folks sitting watching the snake handlers to be sipping on jars of dilute strychine, as well.

Confined mainly to the hills of West Viriginia (well, that state is all hills anyway) and neighboring states.

[Guinastasia]

So basically, are these things adults-only?

[Tuckerfan]

Originally Posted by Guinastasia

So basically, are these things adults-only?

Nope, there's an age limit, but some churches do allow individuals under the age of 18 to handle the snakes, and occassionally the kids get bitten. Why anyone would think this kind of a thing is a good idea is beyond me.

[Princhester]

Originally Posted by Tuckerfan

Why anyone would think this kind of a thing is a good idea is beyond me.

Call me Darwin, but I think this is a very good idea, for certain ulterior reasons...

[CaveMike]

Originally Posted by Polycarp

It's a pretty fringe-y belief, even by the standards of YEC fundamentalists who are convinced that Spongebob is the Antichrist, or whatever.

I am picturing a new Christian sect that engages in dangerous sponge-handling. Thanks Poly!

[Telperien]

Originally Posted by CaveMike

I am picturing a new Christian sect that engages in dangerous sponge-handling. Thanks Poly!

Well, haven't you seen those commercials about how germy a sponge can be?

[Alan Smithee]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

It's also common for folks sitting watching the snake handlers to be sipping on jars of dilute strychine, as well.

Confined mainly to the hills of West Viriginia (well, that state is all hills anyway) and neighboring states.

I've heard this before, but I've never figured out why they bother to dilute it. If they really have faith, wouldn't Drano work just as well? How come no one ever tries that? I'm not just being flipant! Obviously, any group that uses anything stronger won't last very long, but there still has to be some "thinking" behind only using a certain strength of poison. You would think someone would be tempted to try something stronger as a test, as a child, or whenever they happen to be out of strychnine.

[Broomstick]

I think a significant factor here is that groups that practiced Drano-drinking probably died out rapidly.

Likewise, they handle rattlesnakes which, while venomous, are not the most deadly snakes around. If they were really serious, why not use two-step vipers or coral snakes? I mean, many people bit on an extremity by a rattler survive, they are far from sudden death. (Though certainly there IS a risk of death involved)

It's not like there aren't alternative snakes available - both water mocasins and cottonmouths are found in the areas where these practices exist, yet the snake of choice is a rattler.

(whimps!)

[Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor]

Originally Posted by Squink

It looks like the Church of God with Signs Following (overview, no pics) is still around in the US, with the 1,000 to 2,000 adherants mentioned by Cecil. There may also be a group of them in Australia. (also no pics)

Given that every third living thing is Oz happens to be poisonous, perhaps they've just been misidentified, & they are ordinary churchgoers, merely picking the adders out of their scrambled eggs every Sunday before breakfast.

[AskNott]

Originally Posted by Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor

Given that every third living thing is Oz happens to be poisonous, perhaps they've just been misidentified, & they are ordinary churchgoers, merely picking the adders out of their scrambled eggs every Sunday before breakfast.

Um, yeah, but reading posts written by poisonous Aussies is reportedly quite safe. I'm glad of that.

[Alan Smithee]

Originally Posted by Broomstick

I think a significant factor here is that groups that practiced Drano-drinking probably died out rapidly.

Likewise, they handle rattlesnakes which, while venomous, are not the most deadly snakes around. If they were really serious, why not use two-step vipers or coral snakes? I mean, many people bit on an extremity by a rattler survive, they are far from sudden death. (Though certainly there IS a risk of death involved)

It's not like there aren't alternative snakes available - both water mocasins and cottonmouths are found in the areas where these practices exist, yet the snake of choice is a rattler.

(whimps!)

Right. I acknowledged as much. What I'm curious about is what keeps all of them from dying out. When they run out of strychnine one Sunday and someone says "Hey, there's some Drano under the sink!" or when the rattler dies and someone says "You know, there's a cottonmouth living under my shed I keep meaning to do something about!" what happens to keep them all alive?

Either someone else objects (in which case what do they say?) or something they've been taught keeps most snake-handlers from ever making such a suggestion. But what? Someone's got to raise the issue eventually in every congregation (Kids question everything!) so there must be a tradition among them to explain these things. What is it?

(I'm also skeptical about the supposedly Darwinian origin of the rattler and strychnine tradition. Were there once thousands of snake-handling sects, most of which died out after a week?)

[ralph124c]

A few years back, I read of a minister in one of these churches, who was convited of murdering his wife. It seems he needed to be rid of her, so he held her arm in a cage full of rattlesnakes (he kept the congregation's snakes in his garage). She was bitten repeatedly, and died. He told the police that his wife had told him that "she wanted to test her faith",
The policeman investigating the death noted that she had wanted to leave the guy, and her body showed evidence of a struggle.
Isn't this blasphemous?The Bible states that one should not put God to the test.

[Alan Smithee]

Right, but they're not testing God because they know God will save them if they have enough faith; they're testing their own level of faith. Or something like that.

[HeyHomie]

Originally Posted by Polycarp

It's a pretty fringe-y belief, even by the standards of YEC fundamentalists who are convinced that Spongebob is the Antichrist, or whatever.

Foundation for the practice, FWIW, is in the Long Ending of the Gospel According to Mark:



I.e., handling venomous snakes without injury is a mark of the True Believer, along with a few other things like speaking in tongues, immunity to poison, and the gift of laying on hands for healing. Therefore, to prove themselves True Believers, they keep rattlers around to pick up and wave around.

An old thread about this subject, which specifically addresses the Mark 16 passage.

[Guinastasia]

Originally Posted by ralph124c

A few years back, I read of a minister in one of these churches, who was convited of murdering his wife. It seems he needed to be rid of her, so he held her arm in a cage full of rattlesnakes (he kept the congregation's snakes in his garage). She was bitten repeatedly, and died. He told the police that his wife had told him that "she wanted to test her faith",
The policeman investigating the death noted that she had wanted to leave the guy, and her body showed evidence of a struggle.
Isn't this blasphemous?The Bible states that one should not put God to the test.

The case I mentioned in the OP was very similiar-he wanted to get rid of his wife, but couldn't divorce her, so he shoved her hand into one of their rattlesnake containers. Only she lived, he went to jail, and no one in the congregation would talk to her again.

[spingears]

Originally Posted by Polycarp

It's a pretty fringe-y belief, even by the standards of YEC fundamentalists who are convinced that Spongebob is the Antichrist, or whatever.
Foundation for the practice, FWIW, is in the Long Ending of the Gospel According to Mark:
I.e., handling venomous snakes without injury is a mark of the True Believer, along with a few other things like speaking in tongues, immunity to poison, and the gift of laying on hands for healing. Therefore, to prove themselves True Believers, they keep rattlers around to pick up and wave around.

Having lived in the vicinity of some of these poor misguided souls it appears to be more along a cultist belief.
They also point to Acts 28:3-5 in support.
"Acts 28:3 And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. 4 And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live. 5 And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm."

It should be noted that the snakes are 'milked' before hand and the experienced snake handlers have become immunized by repeated bites over time from small amounts of venom from the milked snakes. Deaths do occur to persons overly sensitive or a snake that inadvertantly got by the milking process.

Most cultist type beliefs are centered on one verse or passage, taken out of context, to supoprt and be the basis of their belief system. Often when there is overwhelming textual evidence to the contrary.
For example -- The A.D. 70 Doctrine, Realized Escatology. This heresey is unbelievably extreme. The thrust is thes: the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D.70 is the pivotal event of history. At that time all Bible prophecy was consummated, including the second coming of Christ, the ressurrection of the dead, the judgement day, and the end of the world!
Try to make sense out of that from a Biblical or any other perspective.

[Ol'Gaffer]

There is a book called Salvation On Sand Mountain which was written by a reporter who was covering the trial that either ralph124c or Guin mentioned (same case?). It is a very interesting read and documents his acceptance by the church to the point where he actually handles a snake.

[The Asbestos Mango]

There's something I'm wondering about these snake-handling cults.

There is a cobra cult in some areas of India and they have an annual festival in which cobras are captured, carried around in processions, and brought into people's homes where they are treated as honored guests for the day. Some of the snakes have become so accustomed to this after being captured and treated as a god every year (the snake is returned to the same place it was captured) that the person "catching" the snake has only to set a large jar down near the entrance to its burrow, and the cobra will crawl out and straight into the jar. I've seen actual footage of this, it was amazing. The snakes seemed, if not to be actually enjoying all the attention, at least not to mind.

I imagine there are people in these snake-handling groups who can validly claim never to have been bitten. Since it is apparent that the snakes are kept in enclosures, and not captured for each service, do the people with the "strongest faith" simply know which of the snakes are most accustomed to being handled and thus very mellow about it, and go for those snakes every meeting?