I was of the impression that Armenian genocide denial was on par with holocaust denials. But here is a transcript from Danish Radio of an interview by journalist Reiermann, where he talks with Knud-Eigil Hauberg-Tychsen; an expert on Turkey. What caught me is how he (Hauberg-Tychsen) denies there was any real genocide. At most he seems to accept there were some unfortunate and unintended deaths as part of relocating Armenians, a relocation which was done for their own good as much as anything. But calling it genocide would be grossly unfair and an anachronism. Is this the David Irwing of Armenian genocide the state owned Danish Radio cleverly managed to air on their flagship journalistic program, or what?
Hauberg-Tychsen: “The Ottoman Empire, today one would say Turkey – but it is the Ottoman Empire, is accused of having committed genocide in 1915 – it is about Armenians, 1.15 million people. Because they were relocated, it was a forced relocation, this is certain, from Armenian areas in Anatolia to Syria and to northern Iraq. It was done because they wanted to attempt to end the conflict, stop the fighting between the Ottomans and the Armenians.”
Reiermann: ”[…] what happened during the forced relocation?”
Hauberg-Tychsen: “The first thing which happened, was that the Armenians were attacked by Kurds, because the areas the Armenians travelled through were Kurdish areas. And the Armenians and Kurds have always been at odds with each other. The second thing which happened, was that sickness occurred, epidemics, when one in this was moves such large groups of people, and at this time in history, then sickness and epidemics easily come about and many people died on this account – moreover it has to be said many people died because of the hardships they had to go through – they simply could not manage it physically, they simply could not survive it.”
Reiermann: ”Who orchestrated the relocation?”
Hauberg-Tychsen: “Yes, that is an interesting question, because one ummm… one says today that it were the Turks whom did it, and that is not correct. It was the Ottoman government which did it, and the Ottoman government was among other thing Turkish, but not solely Turkish. And an interesting aspect is, that it actually were the Prussians umm. general staff which suggested and advised this relocation. This is something one hears very little about. Something one reads very little about in history. It wasn’t the Germans which did it, but the Prussians…”
Reiermann: “That which is discussed when one speaks of if there has been a genocide, is whether it was the intention the Armenians should be exterminated. Or, how much can be documented about this?”
Hauberg-Tychsen: “There is fairly good documentation that that is not the case. What the Ottomans, the Ottoman government, wanted was relocate/remove the Armenian population group from the area where they were living to another area, for as long as the war lasted. There was no thought of committing genocide on a population. It is documented that the government, that is the Ottoman government, at all time made sure the relocated people were treated properly, that they received the help that was necessary, and that the government ensured those whom committed transgressions against the Armenians were punished for those crimes which they did anyway. That is the documentation I’m aware of – there was a government decision that the relocated people were to be treated properly.”
Reiermann: “You are saying, there hasn’t been intent … but if one assumes a broader definition of genocide – what says you then to what took place then?”
Hauberg-Tychsen: “Yes if one looks at it through the very wide definition which we know today – then I’d say it was genocide…But if one looks at it in relation to the plans which existed at that time, and in relation to the activities which took place, then one can not accuse the Ottomans of having commited genocide in 1915.”
The issue came up because apparently now the Turkish government has agreed to open some of their archives from that time. Turkey wish to enter the EU, but continue to deny there has ever been genocide, but EU insist the face up to it before being admitted.
Hauberg-Tychsen: “Man beskylder det osmanniske rige, idag siger man Tyrkiet, men det er det osmanniske rige, om at have begået folkemord i 1915 - det drejer sig om, siger armenierne 1,15 millioner mennesker. Fordi man flyttede dem, det var en tvangsflyttelse, det må man sige, fra armenske områder i Anatolien til Syrien og til Nordirak. Man gjorde det fordi man ville gøre et forsøg på at standse konflikten, standse kampene mellem osmannerne og armenierne.”
Reiermann: … hvad er det så der sker under tvangsflytningen?
Hauberg-Tychsen: “Der sker for det første det, at armenierne bliver overfaldet af kurdere, fordi området som armenierne rejste igennem var kurdiske områder. Og der har altid været et modsætningsforhold mellem kurderne og armenierne. Det andet der skete var at der opstod sygdomme, følgelige epidemier, når man flytter så stor befolkningsgruppe på den måde, og på det tidspunkt i historien, så kan der let opstå sygdomme og epidemier og der var mange der døde der - endvidere så må man jo også sige at mange døde på grundlag af de strabadser de kom igennem - de kunne simpelthen ikke klare det rent fysisk, de kunne simpelthen ikke overleve det.“
Reiermann: Hvem var det der stod for folkeflytningen?
Hauberg-Tychsen: “Ja, det er et interessant spørgsmål, fordi man øhh, man siger jo idag at det var tyrkerne der gjorde det, og det er jo ikke rigtigt. Det var den osmanniske regering der gjorde det, og den osmanniske regering var blandt andet tyrkisk, men ikke alene tyrkisk. Og et interessant aspekt er, at det var faktisk de preussiske øhh generalstab der foreslog og anbefalede at man foretog denne folkeflytning. Det er noget man hører meget lidt om. Noget man læser meget lidt om i historien. Det var ikke tyskerne der gjorde det, men det var preusserne…“
Reiermann: Det man diskuterer når man taler om der har været folkemord, det om der har været en hensigt, om der har været en hensigt om at armenierne skulle udryddes. Eller, hvor meget kan man dokumentere her?
Hauberg-Tychsen: “Der er ganske god dokumentation for at dette ikke er tilfældet. Det osmannerne, den osmanniske regering ville var at flytte/fjerne den armenske befolkningsgruppe fra det område hvor de boede til et andet område, sålænge krigen varede. Der var ikke nogen tanke om at begå folkemord på befolkningsgruppen. Der er dokumentation for at man fra regeringens, altså den osmanniske regerings side, hele tiden sikrede at de mennesker der blev flyttet blev behandlet ordentligt, at de fik den hjælp der var nødvendig, og at de der begik overgreb imod armenierne blev straffet for de overgreb de nu engang begik. Så der var altså, det er den dokumentation jeg kender - der var altså en regeringsbeslutning om at de mennesker der blev forflyttet skulle behandles ordentligt. “
Reierman: Du siger der ikke har været hensigt… men hvis tager en mere bred definition af folkemord - hvad siger du så til det der skete dengang?
Hauberg-Tychsen: “Ja, hvis jeg tager det i den meget brede definition som vi kender den idag - så vil jeg sige at så er der tale om et folkemord… Men hvis man ser det i forhold til de planer der var dengang, og i forhold til den aktivitet der foregik, så kan man ikke beskylde osmannerne for at have begået et folkemord i 1915.”
Source: http://www.dr.dk/orientering/Or_MP/2005/ram/o050309c.ram