I pit the substandard governmental response to the situation in New Orleans.

[Hippy Hollow]

There are a ton of threads surrounding Katrina, looters, people who didn't leave, etc. What I am infuriated by is the seeming lack of coordination of governmental agencies - from the NO police to the mayor's office to the state level, and even the federal response. Today was the first day that I actually saw and heard the mayor of New Orleans, and I have all the cable news channels...

It seems that NOBODY is in charge of the evacuation or rescue efforts. I've seen Harry Connick, Jr. in the streets trying to help people but not representatives of elected officials responsible for law and order in the city. I certainly understand that I'm not necessarily seeing everything, but I am perplexed that after 9/11 and the heightened security alert, this situation is turning into a demonstration of how flat-footed the response has been to date.

A lot of us here, and in other places in the nation have been Monday morning quarterbacking the response. Can they not evacuate people from Louis Armstrong Airport? Can they not have the buses from any major school district (I used to to teach in Houston and there are at least four bus barns in the city that have hundreds of buses parked, every night) and get them to the Superdome and Convention Center? Who is the individual (or individuals) responsible for coordinating this effort, and why are they not explaining to the people of New Orleans (and the nation) what the plan is?

It seems the response has been completely ad hoc. A sizeable number of the NOPD apparently walked off the job... why? Why wasn't there an immediate response to this? Have they sent out trucks with loudspeakers to reassure and instruct people as to what they should do? I would think in this nation, in the immediate aftermath of a disaster, one could expect instructions and help instantly.

I want to make clear that the work of relief workers, guardsmen and women, and those people on the ground has been amazing. The individual acts of courage (such as a young man who rowed a boat full of children to the convention center because their mothers could not make the trip, and the nurse who was helping people in the convention center) should be applauded and I am so happy that they are exercising the leadership that the municipal, state, and federal leaders have not.

Posters from around the world have remarked at their amazement over how unorganized and chaotic this evacuation has been. As an American citizen - one who has lived through the L.A. riots and other situations of civil unrest - I am simply slack-jawed in horror about what is not being done on behalf of poor, mostly Black citizens of this nation. The scene in New Orleans resembles a third-world country because the governmental response has been third-rate.

Is anyone else as disappointed, sickened, and angered as I am at the leadership involved?

[Eve]

There's a good Great Debates thread on this.

[Hippy Hollow]

thanks, Eve, for the heads up. (It's actually in IMHO, but the link works fine.) I still think they deserve to be pitted, though.

[Frank]

Originally Posted by Hippy Hollow

Is anyone else as disappointed, sickened, and angered as I am at the leadership involved?

Yes. After this is done, I expect to see resignations and firings at the highest level. Personally, were I President, I would fire the Secretary of Homeland Security and the guy in charge of FEMA. Today.

[Eve]

Originally Posted by Hippy Hollow

(It's actually in IMHO, but the link works fine.)

Oop! That's what I get for only clicking on "New Posts."

[THespos]

I believe the reason many NO cops walked off the job is because they were instructed to defend property against looting, and many of them believed it wasn't worth risking their lives to do so. After all, the looters have picked up guns from every Wal-Mart and gun shop and people have been spotted roaming the streets with AK-47s and the like.

I supposed if I were a cop and were told to go defend some big box store instead of working to find survivors, I'd give someone the finger too.

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by This Year's Model

Yes. After this is done, I expect to see resignations and firings at the highest level. Personally, were I President, I would fire the Secretary of Homeland Security and the guy in charge of FEMA. Today.

Haha. Yer funny.

Your progress in the current administration depends on loyalty and toeing the party line. You know that.

I envision a new government agency. One created to coordinate everything from security to search and rescue. An umbrella organization that will get all of our government agencies to work together to maximize their responses to such disasters.

Oh, right. Nevermind. We've already got that, and boy do I feel better.

-Joe

[Frank]

Originally Posted by Merijeek

Haha. Yer funny.

Yeah, I know. In case you're concerned, I promise I'm not holding my breath waiting for it.

[GIGObuster]

I posted this before, but it fits better here:

There was a great moment today on TV when the president (paraphrased) said to the LA politicians and rescue managers: "You are doing a heck of a job"

Because TODAY, earlier, Bush said otherwise:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/kat...act/index.html

Before leaving Washington, Bush told reporters that millions of tons of food and water were on the way to -- but the results of the relief effort "are not acceptable."

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by This Year's Model

Yeah, I know. In case you're concerned, I promise I'm not holding my breath waiting for it.

Better watch it. This is in danger of becoming a librul circle jerk. After all, we're in like 7 posts and not one post praising The Leader.

-Joe

[Crotalus]

Conservative Republican Bush voter and supporter here. I'm dismayed at what has been revealed about emergency preparedness and coordination in the wake of the hurricane. It would probably be counter-productive to get rid of the top people at FEMA or DHS right now, but heads should roll later. I'd also be interested in knowing what they've been spending money on in terms of disaster planning since DHS was established, because it doesn't look like we've achieved much in that area.

[Kalhoun]

I'm angry as hell. I have seen all these politicians congratulating each other for a job well-done, and I can't help but wonder what disaster they're talking about.

I'm angry that Homeland Security, the same agency that's worried about a fuckin' bobby pin on an airplane...the same agency that has curtailed our basic rights in the name of safety from the enemy, failed so miseraby not only to protect us, but to rescue us from the most devastating disaster and enormous clusterfuck our nation's history.

I'm angry that these people are speaking to each other in cryptic bible-speak, praying at every turn instead of getting the right people in the right place to fix this thing. I'm torqued that the president and congress didn't drop EVERYTHING and get their pompous asses back to work on MONDAY while the hurricane was taking the Gulf Coast apart, fercrissakes.

I'm pissed off that the plan to avoid this disaster was, for whatever reason, blown off. This is our darkest hour. We've handled this with all the skill and agility of a third-world nation with no resources. What. The. Fuck. I'm horrified. If "the terrorists" are watching, they'll probably figure it's safe to cut their operating budget in half.

[Psycho Pirate]

Originally Posted by GIGObuster

There was a great moment today on TV when the president (paraphrased) said to the LA politicians and rescue managers: "You are doing a heck of a job"

Because TODAY, earlier, Bush said otherwise:

Yeah, I'm not blown away with how well the government has handled this so far, but I can't imagine it would have done much good if Bush had told those in charge of the efforts, "You guys stink on ice! What a miserable job all of you are doing.!" There's a time and a place for everything, but that was not the time nor the place. Investigations and firings should take place after the situation is under control.

[Long Time First Time]

For years and years and years, there have been voices out there saying that you can't get something for nothing. That it is magical thinking to believe that we can collect less taxes but provide more services.
These voices have been voted out and replaced by those (from both parties) who have told the people otherwise. Infrastructure? We don't need no stinking infrastructure. We also don't need no big government or expensive programs. Not if that means not cutting taxes let alone raising some.

Funds to shore up the levee system have been cut from budgets or not put into budgets for decades.

Now it's time to pay the piper....


If anything good comes of this entire mess, it might be that the US public wakes up and realizes that if they want any type of reliable infrastructure or government services - they will need to pay for them.

.

[5que]

Well, at least Bush has told us that Tret Lott's house will be rebuilt.

Does he NOT understand how stupid that sounds when people are dying???

[Merijeek]

Psycho Pirate, when is it time to criticize? It seems that when it comes to our current "leadership" it's never.

Don't criticize before hand: "That's negative thinking and you're only helping the Saddamists/Communists/Terrorists/Hurricanes"
Don't criticize during: "People are dying! Now is not the time!"
Don't criticize after. "People are dead! Wait until later you heartless bastard!"

Wait until...?

Until they're no longer dead, apparently.

Originally Posted by Long Time First Time

For years and years and years, there have been voices out there saying that you can't get something for nothing. That it is magical thinking to believe that we can collect less taxes but provide more services.

You seem to have forgotten that anything can be forgiven and forgotten as long as taxes are lowered.

ANYTHING.

Mortgage your future today!

-Joe, notices you didn't forget, just wanted to bitch and reinforce

[GIGObuster]

Originally Posted by Psycho Pirate

Yeah, I'm not blown away with how well the government has handled this so far, but I can't imagine it would have done much good if Bush had told those in charge of the efforts, "You guys stink on ice! What a miserable job all of you are doing.!" There's a time and a place for everything, but that was not the time nor the place. Investigations and firings should take place after the situation is under control.

This is the Bush administration we are talking about here, if the politicians or managers that failed are Republicans, they will get a promotion.

[SnakesCatLady]

Our taxes are paying for FEMA and Homeland Security. So far, neither organization has shown that they have a clue about what they are supposed to be doing.

I want to see some heads roll, preferably from the top down. What I'm sure I will see is lower ranking peons who had no say fired, while the top assholes who have sucked from the public tit for years while producing nothing (but who have friends in high places) keep sucking.

[Gangster Octopus]

Was I the only one who wanted to reach through the TV and smack that smirk off Bush's face during that interview he gave on Good Morning America to Diane Sawyer?

[Rick]

When I started in the business world I was taught the following:
1. Hope for the best, but always plan for the worst.
2. Murphy is always one step ahead of you
3. Have a plan
4. Don't foget Murphy
5.Have a backup plan in case your plan doesn't work
6. Have a contingincy plan in case your backup goes to hell
7. Give some thought to what will happen if your contingncy plan fails.
8.Have I mentioned Murphy?

A hurricane in not like an earthquake. They knew this sucker was comming for several days. Why wern't there trucks preloaded with food / supplies and sitting on the TX / LA border waiting to be dispatched?
Why wasn't there more food waiting at the evac centers?
Why wasn't the National Guard ready to deploy on Monday? (Not the ones in Iraq, the other units that are there now)
Why didn't the city corner the supply of porta potties, and service trucks? It was a sure bet that there would be some flooding, and the that the sewage system would stop working.
What a cluster fuck

[5que]

Originally Posted by GIGObuster

This is the Bush administration we are talking about here, if the politicians or managers that failed are Republicans, they will get a promotion.

No kidding. Maybe they'll get the Medal of Freedom like Bremmer and Tenet.

[HeelB4Zod]

I am a moderate Republican who voted for Kerry, but whose usual first reaction to most Bush-bashing is an eyeroll. I didn't vote for him so I'm not such a huge fan, but I also don't think he's the human manifestation of Satan, either.

But I am disgusted and ashamed at the response of the Bush Administration to this tragedy. It's incompetent, appalling and unacceptable. As I said in a previous post on another thread, had Bush amassed the requisite amount of political capital from previous policy successes, the government's piss-poor, inarticulate, tone-deaf response to this horror may have been overlooked or at least pooh-poohed. Alas, with a botched war/occupation, a runaway deficit, and now probably inflation, higher gas prices, and higher unemployment coming soon to a theater near you, political capital is in short supply.

I think this hurricane blew away more than the Gulf Coast and the Big Easy. It blew away the last of the Emperor's clothing. You can't pray this one away, Mr. President. You can't bomb it away. You can't blame the media. The trust fund won't help you on this one.

Whether or not it's fair, this is your turd sandwich to eat, Mr. Bush.

Yes, I think this event will have profound political consequences.

[BobLibDem]

I'm not sure that it will translate into votes in 2006 and 2008. But I have never seen such outrage from the American people. In some ways, this is more disturbing than 9/11. We knew the Islamic extremists hated us, but now we feel betrayed by our own govenment.

[Jonathan Chance]

Chertoff hasn't been in place long enough to be 'leaving to spend more time with his family'. Something like that would give ammunition to the opposition so I don't expect it.

Brown, on the other hand, is sufficiently far down the food chain that he could be discarded on a whim, really. It'll be his head on the block if the coverage remains highly critical of the administration.

[Stephe96]

I'm stunned you guys haven't yet found a way to blame Karl Rove for this.

[GIGObuster]

Originally Posted by 5que

No kidding. Maybe they'll get the Medal of Freedom like Bremmer and Tenet.

Ok, make that then: promotions to all that fail under this administration.

It seems to me that every politician realizes that becoming a "good soldier" for this administration is the way to cleanse any sins of the past and present.

[Hippy Hollow]

I also usually roll my eyes with the party-line Bush bashing. There are plenty of real issues to beat this administration over the head with. But this event has highlighted how poorly the "war president" performed with a disaster. If anything, this last campaign was all about how Americans were safer with Bush in power. Like the 9/11 commission report said, this administration showed a lack of imagination in not imagining the very best response available from Homeland Security. With all of the attention on counterterror and the like, it seems like ideas on how to evacuate people en masse should be better than they were on 9/11.

Years ago, right after the election of 2000, I recall the exhortations that Bush, the CEO president, would be efficient and move quickly, unlike the wonkiness in the Clinton White House. If Bush is indeed the CEO of USA, Inc., I think he needs to be fired. Is he, individually, responsible for the hurricane? Of course not. But he is the leader of the federal effort to respond. The response has been unimaginative and short-sighted.

[KSO]

Plenty of fuck ups in the handling of Katrina but the one that's really pissing me off right now is the apparent complete lack of a plan to handle refugees. How in the fuck is it possible, four years since 9/11, that the U.S. doesn't have a plan for housing tens/hundreds of thousands of displaced people? They can't live in the fucking Astrodome indefinitely. Good thing a suitcase bomb hasn't been detonated.

And, by the way, would it be possible to use some of the various military bases BRAC just voted to close as refugee housing?

[Innuendo Hunter]

Originally Posted by Rick

Why wern't there trucks preloaded with food / supplies and sitting on the TX / LA border waiting to be dispatched?

Why wasn't there more food waiting at the evac centers?

Why wasn't the National Guard ready to deploy on Monday? (Not the ones in Iraq, the other units that are there now)

Why didn't the city corner the supply of porta potties, and service trucks? It was a sure bet that there would be some flooding, and the that the sewage system would stop working.

This is the heart of the matter.

Everyone knew NO was a disaster waiting to happen. Everyone knew hurricanes roll through that region fairly frequently.

Why weren't these things planned for? Why didn't we prepare to respond earlier?

Why the hell weren't things pre-loaded and ready to go on Monday!!!!!!?????

Fuck!!

[rjung]

Is it worth pointing out that the heads of FEMA appointed by Bush (Joe Allbaugh and Mike Brown) have no experience in disaster management?

[Stephe96]

Originally Posted by Innuendo Hunter

This is the heart of the matter.

Everyone knew NO was a disaster waiting to happen. Everyone knew hurricanes roll through that region fairly frequently.

Why weren't these things planned for? Why didn't we prepare to respond earlier?

Why the hell weren't things pre-loaded and ready to go on Monday!!!!!!?????

Fuck!!

Actually, hurricanes do not "roll through that region fairly frequently." People were worried about something like this happening over 30 years ago. They've managed to dodge all bullets until now.

[Innuendo Hunter]

Originally Posted by Stephe96

Actually, hurricanes do not "roll through that region fairly frequently." People were worried about something like this happening over 30 years ago. They've managed to dodge all bullets until now.

Err a, by "region" I mean, the gulf. Any hurricane in the gulf has a potential to hit NO. The threat is real.

[Stephe96]

Originally Posted by Innuendo Hunter

Err a, by "region" I mean, the gulf. Any hurricane in the gulf has a potential to hit NO. The threat is real.

Exactly. That's why people were raising concerns about just such an even over 30 years ago.

[Robot Arm]

Originally Posted by Stephe96

People were worried about something like this happening over 30 years ago. They've managed to dodge all bullets until now.

It's Gerald Ford's fault?

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by Innuendo Hunter

Err a, by "region" I mean, the gulf. Any hurricane in the gulf has a potential to hit NO. The threat is real.

I've never been struck by a bullet. Therefore I am obviously immune to bullets. I have been bulletproof for 30 years now.

Obviously I have nothing to fear from any gun in the world.

Psst. Steph96 is a moron. Don't feed the morons.

He can be entertaining, though, in a 'Retarded Monkey Dancing On A Frying Pan' kind of way. I'm sure he'll be in here to argue that this is all Clinton/Kerry/Gore/FDR's fault any moment now.

-Joe

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

cnn.com is calling bullshit now.

The big disconnect on New Orleans

The official version; then there's the in-the-trenches version

Friday, September 2, 2005; Posted: 3:57 p.m. EDT (19:57 GMT)

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- Diverging views of a crumbling New Orleans emerged Thursday. The sanitized view came from federal officials at news conferences and television appearances. But the official line was contradicted by grittier, more desperate views from the shelters and the streets.

These conflicting views came within hours, sometimes minutes of each of each other, as reflected in CNN's transcripts. The speakers include Michael Brown, chief of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, evacuee Raymond Cooper, CNN correspondents and others.

What follows are chipperly optimistic statements from the Federal fucks talking about how well everything's going, and no, they hadn't noticed any real problems other than isolated instances. Followed by eyewitness statements of what's really happening.

My favorite? Where Brown tries the blame-the-media schitck:

# Brown: I actually think the security is pretty darn good. There's some really bad people out there that are causing some problems, and it seems to me that every time a bad person wants to scream of cause a problem, there's somebody there with a camera to stick it in their face

[Apos]

"Those defending the government's response to Katrina as the best we can expect under the circumstances lost an ally this morning -- George W. Bush."

From Reason's Hit and Run. Those guys rule.

[Maus Magill]

Originally Posted by Hippy Hollow

If Bush is indeed the CEO of USA, Inc...

Then he's been running it just like he ran his own companies.

Too bad a mysterious investor or two won't show up to buy the country from him.

[Merijeek]

Originally Posted by EddyTeddyFreddy

My favorite? Where Brown tries the blame-the-media schitck:

Maybe the current admin got a discount on cue cards reading "A few bad apples"?

Because it ALWAYS IS.

-Joe

[moonstarssun]

Originally Posted by Gangster Octopus

Was I the only one who wanted to reach through the TV and smack that smirk off Bush's face during that interview he gave on Good Morning America to Diane Sawyer?

Nope, that was my reaction too. He makes my skin crawl anyway, but that was a new low.

I've gone from horrified to angry when it comes to this situation. How could Bush go around pimping his Rx plan and enjoying his vacation while all this was going on? And now he's saying the response is "not acceptable." Big surprise--it came about five days too late.

[Slacker]

People, people! Obviously the problem isn't that everyone at FEMA and the DHS are Bush's buddies with no disaster experience whatsoever, it's that we don't have any Republican presidential candidates in charge of teh operation:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/bre...p-292734c.html

Rep. John Sweeney, R-N.Y., urged President Bush to appoint former New York City mayor Rudolph Giuliani or two former military officials to run the ground response in the Gulf Coast, saying local authorities are not up to the task.

Sweeney defended the Federal Emergency Management Agency in charge of the effort, blaming instead Louisiana and New Orleans officials. “I think the federal response has been frustrated by the lack of experience on the ground from the local people to really coordinate this,” said Sweeney.

I've read way too much of this shit today, and I can't take much more.

Thank God it's almost time to go him to my 6 month old daughter, whose laugh can make me forget everything else.

[Squink]

Originally Posted by Stephe96

I'm stunned you guys haven't yet found a way to blame Karl Rove for this.

There's no need to invoke Rove, Bush himself summed the situation up beautifully today:

THE PRESIDENT: The levees broke on Tuesday in New Orleans. On Wednesday, we -- and Thursday we started ....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0050902-6.html

[Matteo Ricci]

Originally Posted by Maus Magill

Then he's been running it just like he ran his own companies.

Too bad a mysterious investor or two won't show up to buy the country from him.

Funny you should mention that--President Hu Jintao of China will be visiting the White House next week . . .

[Maus Magill]

Originally Posted by Squink

There's no need to invoke Rove, Bush himself summed the situation up beautifully today:

Am I the only person reminded of those "troubleshoeter" sequences on the local news where the company screwing over the old lady suddenly starts playing nice when the cameras show up?

[Stephe96]

Let's remember that Bush declared Louisiana to be in a state of emergency on Saturday....two days before Katrina hit. That was the signal for Governor Blanco to mobilize the National Guard and do something. What, exactly, did she do? And where, exactly, has she been lately?

[FinnAgain]

An interesting tidbit on how people are responding...

Cops join in looting a walmart.

Is it any wonder that things have become chaotic?

[neuroman]

Originally Posted by Innuendo Hunter

This is the heart of the matter.

Everyone knew NO was a disaster waiting to happen. Everyone knew hurricanes roll through that region fairly frequently.

Why weren't these things planned for? Why didn't we prepare to respond earlier?

Why the hell weren't things pre-loaded and ready to go on Monday!!!!!!?????

If we're spreading blame around, I'd like to heap some at the feet of the Louisiana Governor. Kathleen Blanco's office, IMO, had the highest level of immediate responsibility for planning this disaster's aftermath. That is who should have leapt into action once it became clear NO was in the path.

[ioioio]

I apologize for my vagueness, but I'm not a TV watcher. Last night I turned on the TV for the first time in probably six months, looking for Katrina video. At 9 p.m. my time that turned out to be mostly Fox and that Greta thing who looks like half her face is paralyzed. I did come across a blonde news personality who I'm guessing is famous for her style of not keeping her feelings and opinions out of her reporting. She was interviewing some federal government honcho who said, "We didn't hear from the governor until today that there were shortages at the Super Dome." I actually gasped when I heard this. I don't admire the blonde's reporting style, but I did enjoy her comeback, which was something like, "Perhaps you didn't receive the engraved invitation until today. . ."

[Stephe96]

Originally Posted by laina_f

I apologize for my vagueness, but I'm not a TV watcher. Last night I turned on the TV for the first time in probably six months, looking for Katrina video. At 9 p.m. my time that turned out to be mostly Fox and that Greta thing who looks like half her face is paralyzed. I did come across a blonde news personality who I'm guessing is famous for her style of not keeping her feelings and opinions out of her reporting. She was interviewing some federal government honcho who said, "We didn't hear from the governor until today that there were shortages at the Super Dome." I actually gasped when I heard this. I don't admire the blonde's reporting style, but I did enjoy her comeback, which was something like, "Perhaps you didn't receive the engraved invitation until today. . ."

That's funny and all..but state's do have governors for just this reason. They sort of, uh, govern what's going on in their state. That means they are the liason with the federal officials.

[Gangster Octopus]

The political failures have been astounding, starting with the Mayor who declared mandatory evacuation but had no consideration for those who id not have the means to do so, to the Governor who seems to be a deer caught ion the headlights, to Bush's inability to lead and failing to jump in when there were local failures.