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#1
11-15-2005, 10:29 PM
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Are you or a friend/family member an ex-nun or an ex-priest? Post here!
In this thread, Shirley Ujest and others mention being related to or knowing former (Catholic, I presume) nuns and former priests.
If you are a former nun/priest or know someone who is: 1. Why did you (they) get into religious orders? For example, a genuine calling? Pushed into it by family? 2. How and why did you get out of religious orders? 3. Did you have a loss or alteration of faith when you left religious orders? The only ex-nun or ex-priest I've ever known was our parish priest when we were small; he was doing divorce counseling for a lady parishioner, their eyes met over a crucifix, and that was that. But other than that, I've got nothin', so I'm interested to know others' reasons for getting out of religious orders. May peace be with you! </former Catholic schoolgirl> 
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#2
11-15-2005, 10:49 PM
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I'm not and never was Catholic, but dated a guy who was. He went to a Catholic high school and then went straight into seminary - he was there for three or four years before deciding he didn't have a true calling. I once asked him why he left - he said he discovered what "nun" meant: "ain't had nun, ain't gonna get nun."
He is still a faithful Catholic - even to the point of getting his marriage annulled by the Church when he divorced.
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#3
11-16-2005, 12:08 AM
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When I was 13, the ecclesiastical deacon they put in charge of the altar boys left not only his Holy Orders, but also town, and quickly, along with a (married, mother of three) female parishoner. In the possessions that he left behing were several pornographic novels. Thirteen is a great age to be just outside the center of a scandal.
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#4
11-16-2005, 12:23 AM
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1. My aunt was a nun. I think she did have a calling, but was also pushed by the family - the son earmarked for the priesthood died and she had to pick up the slack (13 kids from a Catholic family, somebody had to do it).
2. I'm not entirely sure why she left, it wasn't something my mother talked about, she left in the late 70s. Could be as simple as not getting along with the new priest or as complicated as a disagreement with what the pope was saying. I've never had the nerve to ask, as I think it was probably a very personal decision. 3. My aunt carries on much as she did as a nun, with good works, helping in the community and schools and she is still active in the church. She married at the age of about 60, which was years after she left the convent. *Slight hijack - dang, that convent was such a disappointment to me. Nine years old, visiting my aunt the nun, I was expecting a convent out out the Sound of Music. It was an ordinary suburban house in CA, with the nuns in regular street clothes. I had a great time, but shame about the scenery.
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#5
11-16-2005, 12:30 AM
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Clarification ...
2. I'm not entirely sure why *my aunt* left, it wasn't something my mother talked about. *My aunt* left *the church* in the late 70s. Could be as simple as not getting along with the new priest or as complicated as a disagreement with what the pope was saying. I've never had the nerve to ask, as I think it was probably a very personal decision.
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#6
11-16-2005, 01:40 AM
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My late wife, and the love of my life, entered a nunnery at 17. She was primarily
motivated by a desire to please her very strict father. She was persuaded to leave the order after about 6 months w/ the suggestion she could return when she was better motivated. Her father expressed his disappointment and within a few months she rebelled , left home and took a job, in New Orleans, as a telephone operator. She became intimate, for the first time, w/ the first guy she met. Unfortunately he was somewhat shiftless and of low moral character They married and had two children before she realized she could do better. She was a complicated person partly because of her unresolved religious issues which conflicted w/ a zest for life. She fulfilled a dream by becoming an RN in her mid 30's and unfortunately succumbed to cancer at 38. She was not actively religeous during most of her adult life, but turned to the Southern Baptist Church shortly before her death. She died in 1986 and I miss her every day.
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#7
11-16-2005, 04:06 AM
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My aunt became a nun in the 1950s at a pretty young age and quit in the early 1970s. It is hard to say why she quit--she is still pretty devout and strict, it would seem, and did not pick up a boyfriend until very late in life. When I asked her about it, she does not seem evasive but nevertheless doesn't have a very clear-cut answer. Just didn't feel fulfilled any more, started too young before she knew what she was getting into, stuff like that.
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#8
11-16-2005, 04:41 AM
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I know several former priests, or seminarians who almost became priests, and a couple of ex-nuns:
1. Why did they get into religious orders? For example, a genuine calling? Pushed into it by family? In all cases, their reasons were sincere, but they were very young when they made the commitment. In one case the person (a seminarian who was not actually ordained) explains that he had a calling to help others, and that for someone of his social class and economic limitations the Church was the only option. He, and all the other former priests and nuns I know, went on to become social workers, activists or development workers. 2. How and why did they get out of religious orders? In all cases - a relationship. The seminarian above, told me he 'had an affair with an older woman who happened to be a nun  '. In one other case, the ex priest in question - a Nicaraguan - was also involved in a dispute with the mainstream Church because of its stance on the Sandinista government in Nicaragua which was an additional factor in his leaving the priesthood.3. Did they have a loss or alteration of faith when they left religious orders? I've only spoken about this with the two I mention above. The others I don't know that well. One of the former nuns at least does not strike me as at all devout. The former seminarian told me he doubts he really believed in the first place, he just didn't question and the priesthood was, as I said, merely the only available means for him to fulfil his ambition to help others. The Nicaraguan is probably still a believer, but is completely estranged from the Church.
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#10
11-16-2005, 07:50 AM
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My former neighbor in Indianapolis is a former nun. As a novitiate, her superiors recognized a talent that would have been squandered had she been allowed to continue as a nun, and they urged her to seek higher education outside the order.
She went on to get a PhD in Clinical Psychology, and had many years of a successful practice as a faith-based marriage counselor before retiring.
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#11
11-16-2005, 08:34 AM
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Someone I know very well was a nun for 20 years, was very active and was important in her order. She left and married a priest. She says she entered religious life due to idealism. I don't know if she left to get married or it was just a coincidence that she met her husband as she was thinking of leaving. She's not clear about that.
As a result of knowing her I know of several former nuns who went on to big things. Our former Attorney General, Arlene Violet, was a nun. The director of our state's Sexual Assault & Trauma Resource Center was also a nun.
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#12
11-16-2005, 08:41 AM
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My mom entered the convent right out of high school. She went in because she felt a calling and probably a bit because she didn't think she had a lot of other options.
She left the convent because they served liver every wednesday. She hates liver and couldn't stand the thought of eating it once a week for the rest of her life. She is still a very active Catholic and very devout, although I think she says she is a "New Catholic" or somesuch. Looking for female clergy and things like that I think. Anyway, I enjoy liver because if not for liver I wouldn't exist! I think I'll have a braunschweiger sandwich and celebrate my life.
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#13
11-16-2005, 08:51 AM
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My brother's best mate from when they started primary school at the age of 4 or 5 entered a seminary at the age of about 20 after spending a year or so at his family's home in Ireland considering it. He'd always had the look of a priest about him and I am sure it was entirely his own decision: his family was naturally very proud of him but they didn't strike me as the sort who would have sought to influence him.
After his ordination as a Redemptorist, he spent a good few years in parishes in Scotland. Then he suddenly jacked it all in to be with a 56 year-old woman with multiple sclerosis. The brother took it quite badly and refused to speak to him for ages. They were reconciled, however, and now speak regularly on the telephone. But the brother still shies away from talking about the woman. Also, my former Parish Priest when I lived in Kilburn ran away with his secretary. He was quite an informal priest in the first place - he drank, smoked and cursed as much as his average parishioner - but it came as a bit of a shock that he was a womaniser as well.
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#14
11-16-2005, 08:56 AM
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I had a friend from grade school until graduation that thought he knew everything, and I found to be an aggressive personality. I saw him for a couple years after graduation. I forbid any family member from telling him or his family where I lived or worked. He joined the Army and got kicked out. He went to a Seminary and got kicked out. Eight years ago he started to walk into the Diocese and the Nuns were in a panic about him, but I don't remember the exact reason. My mother knew who it was, and sent him on his way before he got into the building proper. Two weeks later the paper had information about him being on trial for bilking thousands from people, using a religious cover for the job. He got off because the people didn't prosecute him after he was caught. They said they needed to forgive him. This guy is probably a cult leader by now. He decided right after the Army gig, that being a priest or minister or whatever type of religious leader would be the best way to become wealthy.
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#15
11-16-2005, 09:51 AM
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I'm friends with a former Orthodox priest:
1. His was a genuine calling; from what I've heard he was an excellent pastor, and greatly loved his work, but 2. His marriage, unfortunately, ended. Orthodox priests are allowed to be married, but they must marry before ordination. He could have continued to be a priest, but he would have had to remain celibate. He didn't feel this was a viable option, and so with much regret left the priesthood and remarried. Interestingly, he's still friends with his ex-wife, and in fact they attend the same church. 3. Nope. He's still a committed Orthodox Christian, and greatly misses being a priest. His leaving the priesthood was solely due to the requirements of canon law, not because he had any problems with it.
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#16
11-16-2005, 10:12 AM
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My mother used to be a nun, but she doesn't talk about it or why she left, to me at any rate. I didn't even know about it until my dad and I saw a movie with nuns in it when I was in high school and he said something casually - he didn't know I hadn't known.
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#17
11-16-2005, 11:54 AM
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My grandmother was a nun.
She (from a strict Irish Cathoic family) was pushed into it by her father when she fell in love with my grandfather, a Welsh Protestant. I'm not sure exactly how it happened, but love prevailed, and she left, and married my grandfather. I never really thought it was weird until her funeral. We, the very small family -- perhaps 10 members -- were definitely outnumbers by the church packed full of other nuns there for the service. Weird, but, IMHO, very, very cool.
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#18
11-16-2005, 02:28 PM
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#19
11-16-2005, 02:31 PM
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I don't know any former nuns or priests, but I wanted to chime in and mention a book by a former nun that was pretty interesting: Through the Narrow Gate: A Memoir of Spiritual Discovery, by Karen Armstrong.
Also on this topic, there's an Australian mini-series about nuns called Brides of Christ. It tracks the lives of several nuns during the 60's. Some of them remain with their order and some of them don't. And while I'm here, I can't help but recommend The Nun's Story, both the book by Katherine Hulme and the movie starring Audrey Hepburn.
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#20
11-16-2005, 03:50 PM
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A close friend of the family is a former nun - I believe she left when she met her husband (several decades ago - we didn't get to know her until some time after her children were grown and her husband had died). I don't know the specifics of her time in the habit, as it were, but I do know that she remained a faithful Catholic after leaving - indeed, my mother met her when they were working together at a Catholic elementary school.
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#21
11-16-2005, 03:58 PM
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Completely opposite situation that involves an uncle of mine. He was married, had two kids and lived life as a fairly devout Catholic. At the age of 42 his wife died suddenly and it really hurt him badly for several years, and then he said he felt a calling to do greater things within the Church. He quit his job as a fairly successful CPA and is now a priest.
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#22
11-16-2005, 04:19 PM
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#23
11-16-2005, 04:25 PM
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My friends father is actually a monk and he doesn't claim her or really acknowledge her because monks are not supposed to have children. She went to visit him once and he tried to give her money to leave--she was very sad and rightfully so.
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#25
11-17-2005, 01:19 AM
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Two Uncles on my Mothers side are priests. One is dead now and one is retired. Couple fop great Aunt's were Nun's Some of my school friends became Nun's and Priests.
I know several ex-nuns and 2 ex-priests. I find no stereotype among them at all. YMMV
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#26
11-17-2005, 07:17 AM
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How do you folks (at least the Catholics) only seem to know one or two? I know a dozen or more. (I probably hang around with the wrong crowd.)
Among those I know, only one seems to have been pressured into the priesthood trying to please his "sainted mother." Within one year of her death, he was out of the priesthood and married. (Unfortunately, he was fertile; he married one of the ditziest women I've ever encountered--and he was no prize--and they successfully bred. Fortunately, he is no longer messing up people and parishes around metro Detroit with his faux spirituality and general idiocy, although I do feel sorry for the customers of whatever product he's currently pushing.) Among the rest, the reasons for entering the seminary or convent were usually a desire to serve God. The reasons for leaving were as varied as the person: several guys left after constant fights with their bishop in which they felt that they were being given punitive assignments that prevented them from being effective ministers. (Under the same bishop, several more guys signed up to be military chaplains because they had the same experiences, did not want to leave the priesthood, and found that that was the only assignment that that bishop would sign the permission for a move out of the diocese.) Several guys from the 1960s through the very early 1980s decided that they had fallen in love and just had to get married. (Among the guys I know, that experience has been far more rare since the 1980s.) I've known a couple of guys who simply found they'd made a bad choice and could not take the strain of trying to follow a path that made them hate getting up each morning. One interesting thing that I have observed: [anecdote alert: I have no documented numbers] it seems to me that the guys who have left either stay very active in the church as laymen or they reject the church (and often a belief in God) entirely. They never seem to just settle down to be Sunday Catholics. Among the women I know who've left the convent, it seems to have generally been simply a matter of the convent (or that particular order) just not being a good "fit." Of course, it is easier for them to slip out with less fanfare, especially up through their early 30s because in most orders, women do not take final or permanent vows right out of school, "signing up" for periods of three years or seven years at a time before making their final commitment. I don't know if the same exit experience I mentioned is true for women. The former sisters I know tend to be active in their parishes, but I tend to know that they were sisters because it comes out in discussions at church. There might be any number of such women who only show up in the pews on Sunday and then go home and I would not know them. (On the other hand, I do not have much experience with brothers and neither know what their experiences are like nor the rules of their entry and exit.)
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#27
11-17-2005, 02:15 PM
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Can't believe I'm the first to say this, but I know an ex-priest who left the ministry to pursue openly homosexual relationships. We're not extremely close friends (I know him mainly through his boyfriend), but here's what I gather: He joined the priesthood because of his desire to serve God and the Church and because it was a pretty good option for a young gay Catholic man. However, later in life, horrible depression, alcohol abuse, and other Bad Things led him to the fact that he couldn't just run away from The Gay. He is still involved with Chuch stuff in a limited capacity and is somewhat of an activist. He's a wonderful guy; I'm glad he's doing what makes him happy.
I thought this pattern was more common, but given that nobody else has mentioned LBGT-related reasons for leaving the clergy, maybe it's not...
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#28
11-17-2005, 07:47 PM
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Oh sorry, yes - one of the two nuns I mentioned went on to have a relationship with a woman. The other one got married to a bloke, and all the former priests or seminarians are in heterosexual relationships now.
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#29
11-17-2005, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
She's still a nun, so sadly that doesn't help the OP. Of the other people I know who are former religous, it's hard to make generalizations about why and how they left. As far as I know, they believed they had a genuine vocation, or at least a calling to find out for sure if they had a vocation. Just about everyone I know in this position is still pretty active in the Church. I personally don't know anyone who left because they had a crisis of faith (as opposed to crisis of vocation). One interesting thing I remember about the (former nun) mother of one of my childhood friends is that she still socialized with a lot of the sisters, which makes sense because those were her friends from her young adult years. One time my friend's parents went out of town -- we were contemplating whether or not to have a party at her house, and another friend said (in disgust) "But it's not any fun to break the rules in your house, it's a NUN HANGOUT."
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#30
11-17-2005, 08:30 PM
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When I was a catholic, and wished there were more clergy, I always thought that the church should have something similar to the ROTC program for priests and nuns. I figured there were plenty of pious individuals who would be glad to devote five or seven years to the church, but would eventually like to move on to an ordinary life. And they would certainly be very active in their parishes afterwards, and become the people who are the backbone of a good congregation. They would also have an investment in the future of the church, as well as an understanding of how difficult the ministry is.
Now, of course, the whole corrupt institution can't collapse under its own weight fast enough for me.
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#31
11-17-2005, 08:32 PM
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#32
11-18-2005, 06:40 AM
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1. Why did you (they) get into religious orders? For example, a genuine calling? Pushed into it by family?
The nun was/is my mom. I found out about the exact reasons of just why she wanted to join the convent and...well...sit down kiddies..... Back in 1944, December, her class graduated early so the boys could go off and fight in the war. My mom, being a hot potato, was proposed to by one of the many guy friends she had. My mom, not opting for any normal excuse like, " Ummmm, no." or " I can't, I'm washing my hair." Said " I can't. I'm becoming a nun." Yes, her spinelessness was apparent in the early years. YAY MOM! 2. How and why did you get out of religious orders?Her reasoning that it wasn't all it was cracked up to be came from receiving no mail during lent and on Easter Sunday 1945, receiving scads of letters from friends telling her which friends were killed in war. This left my sheltered mother in tears and the Mother Superior chided her for crying on the Lord's Day. Ummm, yeah. And the small fact that they were only allowed to bath once a week ( saturdays) and then that afternoon had to weed the cemetary. By June of 1945, my mother realized the entire convent wasn't any fun and, I dunno, got out. I'll have to ask. I can't imagine her having a back bone to tell someone she was unhappy. 3. Did you have a loss or alteration of faith when you left religious orders? No, she still needs a man-centered advice and to be told what to do. I know of one other ex-nun who was my mom's first cousin ( there were three first cousins that became nuns. One is still a nun and quite the upstart, if you ask me, even though she is nearly 80.) The ex-nun was a nun for something like 30-40 years and left to get married at the age of 60 something to a wonderful man who was a widower with adult kids. I don't know of many men who get married a second time in life who get a virgin the second time around that is the same age.) Anywho, this cousin, caused quite a ruckus in Yee Olde Catholic Family for leaving, but really, it is no one elses business and she got the blessing of my grandpa ( the big cheif hoo ha) and the rest was history. She died not long ago. Nice, nice, nice lady.
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#33
11-18-2005, 06:58 AM
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Oh, and I had two great uncles that were priests. Not to brag. One was a pretty big whatever for a cardinal in Toronto and was behind the scenes at Vatican II.
His brother was a priest too. ( funny-bizarre story about him becoming a priest.) Back when Father Vin was born ( 1898 maybe, dunno.) he was a sickly baby as kids were back then and even probably worse since they were in rural Ontario (Walkerton). He was the last child of 5 or 6 kids. My Great Grandmother (Mom's Dad Mom, y'follow?) made a deal with God. If God let little Vincent live, Vincent would become a Preist. When I was told this not so long ago, I think my mouth just hit the floor. "Maaaa! Ummmm What if Father Vin didn't want to be a priest? What if he wanted to be a plumber or something?!!" "He never questioned it." and a load of Kids didn't question their parents authority and did as they were told and our parents were right. You didn't have a choice..blah blah blah... crapola until my optical nerve snaps from rolling my eyes back in my head. It turned out to work for the better as this young son ( as well as his other priestly brother.) had a photographic memory and he would have never gotten the education that someone of his intelligence deserves being a farm kid from Canuckistan. He ended up being a cunning linguist (HA!) with a fluency in something like 12 languages and traveled the world doing the mooch off the parish and parishioners program. (I feel safe to say it wasn't because of pedophilia cause....uh....fark...I dunno. My mom vouches for him.) Somehow he helped discover some Saint's tomb (Not sure if it was like an Indiana Jones' kinda adventure or he was able to crack the linguistics.) and is in a book of who's who somewhere. His brother was a priest for something like 60 years. Taught at the seminary to all the young priests back when the church had to turn away young men because they didn't have enough room. He also taught college for years (including his neice, my mom, and was a very tough teacher.) As a side note, there was no one faster at a meal than Father Leon. He'd show up for Sunday dinner minutes before the food was on the table, do the blessing, eat and be gone within minutes of the dinner's completion. I'll shut up now.
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#34
11-18-2005, 10:33 AM
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I have an exchange Father from Germany who was a Protestant Minister but left the trappings of that life to become a respected Professor of Theology, head editor of a religion magazine, and author (both children and adult books). I think he said his reason for leaving the Ministry was that he was too much like Martin Luther- he liked women, wine, and controversy too much.
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#35
11-18-2005, 01:37 PM
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#36
11-18-2005, 01:46 PM
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Hit "post" too soon!
My very own father was a seminarian. The seminary he attended also operated a high school at that time (I don't know if they still do; I doubt it). The idea was, a boy would get his secondary education and then go on to become a priest. My father, like many others, began this path but quickly realized that it was not for him. He left St. Meinrad and enrolled in college. He graduated with a law degree and became a small-town lawyer and prosecutor. He did remain an active, devout Catholic in service for the remainder of his life, and at the time of his death was in the Diaconate program, the completion of which would have made him an ordained Deacon.
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#37
11-18-2005, 02:12 PM
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Slightly outside the OP, but if I were Catholic, I might've become a nun. For about three months during my senior year of college, I felt a strong calling to join a religious order. I wanted a quiet, contemplative, simple life. "Wanted" is a bit weak; "yearning" might be more descriptive, but it sounds melodramatic. Anyway, I think there was more to it than that, but I'm not sure what it was. I decided not to pursue it mainly becuase I'm fairly certain there's no religious order that sufficiently corresponds with my personal faith.
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#38
11-18-2005, 02:22 PM
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My step-dad's father was a priest. He left the seminary when he met step-dad's mother. I'm afraid he died before I was born, so I can't answer your questions.
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#39
11-18-2005, 04:06 PM
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My grandfather was an Episcopal priest. He doesn't disguise that fact, but I've never heard him talk about either why he entered or left. That information comes from my mother, who isn't what I'd call a reliable source, but according to her, he became a priest to please his mother, and then was forced to leave when he divorced his first wife. He has never given any indication of any kind of faith, but that's another thing I've never actually discussed with him. My mother thinks he lost his faith when his second wife (my grandmother) died, but as I said, her perceptions of things are not nessecarily accurate.
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#40
11-19-2005, 11:38 AM
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I'm not an ex-priest, but I'm a priest who has considered becoming an ex-priest from time to time, and I can offer some thoughts on why I'd be inclined to leave.
First off, is family. I'm in a denomination that allows its priests to be married, so I've been able to answer both vocations, but there remains the fact that the job of being a priest isn't always easy to integrate with family life. Not that there aren't plenty of other professions where this is the case, but for sheer unpredictablity of hours being a priest has got to be high on the list. I've missed many of my kids' athletic events at the last moment because of parish business. From the perspective of family finances, being a priest also creates challenges. I'm always amused by folks who post on these lists who make some comment about how much money the church makes. It may be true in other places, but I've never been empoyed by a place like that. Where I serve we've got a minimum salary guideline for full-time clergy and I make a bit above that, but I've been in this profession for over twenty years and as a person with a four-year undergrad degree and seven years of post grad work and two post-grad degrees I could have gone into some other more lucrative profession and supported my family much more comfortably. One of my kids will be starting college next year and where the money will come from isn't as clear as we'd like it to be. Family considerations are important, but in all honesty if there's ever one thing that makes me seek another profession it will probably be church people. Most are wonderful, but in every congregation I've ever served there have always been a few who like to keep things stirred up. Years ago when I was ordained the person who gave the sermon at the service said that down the road I'd meet, among others, little old ladies who were "frail of body and vicious of spirit." They haven't all been old ladies and they haven't all been frail, but every time I've encountered that genuine viciousness it's been s shock. It's all part of the job,m true, but it's a particularly unpleasant part. In general, I think people who are called to the ministry tend to be people who enjoy approval, and when disapproval comes, particularly when it seems umerited, it's difficult to accept. Just recently I discovered that I had some stress-related health problems and it's made me reevaluate my lifestyle, including my profession. I'm not planning to leave, but if I ever do I would guess that I'd probably choose some line of work that involves making things. I'd like to do something that was quantifiable and that used different parts of my brain. I'm deeply attracted by a lifestyle that would allow me to look back at my day and say this is what I accomplished today. My current profession rarely allows that. Curate
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#42
03-11-2013, 01:03 AM
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I was a lay brother in a religious congregation for seven years up to the end of the Second Vatican Council. The Council ended a year before I was due to take final vows. During the council the religious congregation I was in started to relax the rules and daily observance in anticipation of “religious liberty” and the reforms being debated in Rome. Community life became more a “do as you please as you please” and the morning and evening meditation and other community observances became optional. The priests of the congregation started to live like parish priests while the lay brothers for the most part carried on in the old ways of regular observance. The old brothers seemed to be glad that there were near the end of their life and the young ones like me were wondering what we were letting ourselves in for in the future. The old certainties, observances and customs were fast being dismantled and disregarded. The rule that I had professed seven years ago and been content with was about to be changed. Rumours were rife that the Holy Mass itself was going to be changed which we did not believe at the time believing it to be have been practically canonized and irrevocably fixed for all times by Pope St. Pius V at the Council of Trent. Far from having a vision of a great renewal similar that that which followed in the wake of the Council of Trent when religious orders reformed, new ones founded and vocations increased, I could only see a confused and bewildering future that I was not prepared (or did not have the faith) to commit myself for life to what I could only see as my signature on a blank sheet. It was with great sorrow and tears that I left my religious order in the early hours of the morning before the community got up and on the day that my temporary vows expired. The Father Superior was a kind man and understood why I could not stay on and saw me off into the dark of the early morning. Thinking back it seems that it was the right thing to do. As sacristan with a great love of the Latin liturgy I could never have endured the excesses, banality and desacralizing of the Holy Mass in that period of liturgical experimentation which followed the implementation of the Novus Ordo Mass. If I had stayed on I would have had to endure it and participate in it which I would have hated.
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#43
03-11-2013, 02:51 AM
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My 10th grade Lit teacher (SJ school):
1. Why did you (they) get into religious orders? For example, a genuine calling? Pushed into it by family? As far as he could tell at the time, a genuine calling. 2. How and why did you get out of religious orders? Because he eventually realized it hadn't been a genuine calling. How, by the usual process of talking with his superiors (in this case since he was SJ, both them and the local bishop) and requesting a permanent suspension of his duties as a priest. He later got married, but as he would explain to us, he'd met her later. 3. Did you have a loss or alteration of faith when you left religious orders? No. He's still a Jesuit too, although now in the Tertiary Order (these live "in the world" rather than in community), and all his teaching life has taken place in Jesuit schools. I also know several nuns who aren't currently living in community because they've left it to take care of elderly parents, one whose order does not accept perpetual vows and which declined renewal at one point for the same reason as the above, three nun-priest marriages which asked to be let out when they realized they'd fallen in love (no crises of faith in any of the above as far as I can tell, they tend to be more involved in parish life than others) and one ex-priest who's now a JW (evidently this one did have a change of faith), but I haven't talked in detail about it with any of them.
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#44
03-11-2013, 03:01 AM
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OOT ETA: My father and his brothers attended the local SJ seminar - but that is true of 1/3 of Navarrese men their age, and an even higher proportion for men of my grandfather's generation or beyond. Dad's generation had 3 high schools available in the whole province and one happened to be the SJ seminar; it was also the oldest, and my family had attended it pretty much since it opened. Dad and two of his brothers got minor orders (deaconate), the eldest brother said he wasn't interested and ended his HS studies in the other SJ school in the province. None of them ever joined the Order; during their last year of HS they were asked whether they were interested in the priesthood, said "no" and went on to continue their studies at other kinds of schools.
A couple of times I've been in Mass with Dad when the priest asked for assistance distributing Communion; we volunteered and he asked whether we knew what to do. "I have minor orders and she's my daughter" got us a waiver on the detailed explanations other people would get.
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#45
03-11-2013, 12:29 PM
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I've known two former nuns pretty well -- one an aunt, the other a woman I worked with. Both of them went into the convent right after high school and left a couple of years later. My aunt basically decided she didn't want to live a nun's life 24/7. My co-worker was, by her own admission, way too rambunctious for any kind of life in a religious community and was kindly booted out by her superiors.
Both of them stayed practicing Catholics, one became a teacher and the other a social worker.
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#46
03-12-2013, 05:44 AM
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In my novitiate we had young men of 17 who had come from the religious congregations own school. Some of them had been sexually active and were able to go to confession as and where they wanted. Once in the novitiate there was only one priest who was confessor and spiritual director for the novices so there was no more anonymity in the confessional. I think the celibacy got too much for some of them and a few of them gave up and left. The novice master used to say “better to take measure of yourself now before you are in vows.” As scripture says “let him that can take it, take it”. Our novice master did speak about temporary vocations whereby some people were called to religious life for a time but then destined to return to the world hopefully enriched and helped by the experience. I left after seven years as a lay brother because I could not adapt to the changes in the community life in the wake of Vatican II.
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#47
03-12-2013, 05:59 AM
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Sorry but I'm confused.
Quote:
Quote:
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#48
03-15-2013, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
What I am saying is that when some of the boys “had a fall from grace” and committed a sexual sin alone or with another student as sometimes happens with young men living together in institutions they could always go into the city to any parish and any priest for confession. It would be unlikely that the priest would know that they were pre novitiate candidates for a religious order. In those days there was always a grille and a curtain in the confessional. If I remember rightly in cannon law the penitent has the right to anonymity. I found this on one Catholic website “While the practice of face-to-face confession has become common in many places, the Church, for years, has believed in the right of the individual penitent to remain anonymous.” When you are in a community like a novitiate in a religious institution there is usually an appointed confessor other than the novice master. There are also extraordinary confessors available from time to time. A fall from grace by committing a sexual act like masturbation would be noted by your confessor and if repeated that person would probably be counselled that a life of chastity was not for him and he should leave the novitiate and eventually get married. This advice was given to somebody I knew which he followed.
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#49
03-15-2013, 06:24 AM
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Quote:
Why, I don't know!
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#50
03-15-2013, 09:12 AM
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My maternal Gran had 13 children including many beautiful daughters who were of an age when WWII broke out. A nearby army base made her fear for her daughters, so she put the three most likely to swoon for the soldiers into a convent.
One Aunt left as soon as she was of age, the second one pursued the life for a few more years then exited. But the third one stayed all her life. I remember a family row when I was quite young. We would be visiting my Gran when the penguin (full black and white habits, etc.), Aunts would arrive to visit. Watching us playing in the yard they liked to loudly pronounce what lovely nuns me and my sister would make! Whoa, set my mother off! Wherein she marched around loudly proclaiming that she anticipated her daughters having useful and productive lives, thank you very much! The penguin Aunties never said such a thing again! My other strongest remembrance was running wild through the halls of the nunnery with my siblings and watching hockey with the extremely old nuns. That Auntie stayed at that convent all of her life, and was eventually the Mother Superior!
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