(I know that these topics are the subjects of other threads, but I haven’t seen this question specifically addressed. And even though it’s a poll of sorts, I was sure it would end up in GD anyway.)
Two separate Justice Department investigations are now underway to determine who leaked classified information regarding the aforementioned stories. I’m curious who fellow dopers think the source or sources for the leak are. My first guess would be could be someone on the staff of Democratic members on either the House or Senate Intelligence Committees. It could also be a longtime staffer somewhere in the intelligence community rather than someone who is appointed to a political job.
And was their purpose simply to undermine GWB politically? What other purpose could have been served by the leak? Was the damage done by the leak worth revealing the information to the press?
Lastly, I’m sure those who called for an exhaustive investigation of the Plame leak to be just as zealous to find the source of these two. Intellectual consistency and all that. Right?
I am assuming the leaks were done within the Democrats orbit for the purpose of undermining the President. I hadn’t heard that the CIA leak pointed to Republican sources. I would wonder what their goal was if that was the case, but it really doesn’t matter to me.
I hope whoever is discovered to have leaked the information goes to prison. That goes for “Scooter” and whoever else comes up in the Plame case as well. Breaking the law is breaking the law.
Why? The CIA leak most likely came from someone in the CIA, not some politician. Same with the NSA leak-- very few politicians new about it, so the likely source is someone in the NSA.
If someone wanted to undermine Bush politically, they picked a strange to do it. Why not wait until we are closer to the midterm elections?
I mentioned before that those exclusive meetings with Republicans also gave us the leaked reports that Cheney was indeed looking to get in amendments to justify torture by the CIA and other groups, I do see that and this latest leak as evidence that Republicans are beginning to be fed up with this administration.
Good question. Both leaks would have been much more devastating this October. So what are some other possibilities?
A sanctioned interagency pissing contest? The NSA leaks the prison story to hurt the CIA and the CIA retaliates with the monitoring story? It’s possible, I suppose, but why do it? What short or long term benefit would come to either agency? It would cause more harm to their mission than it would bring any benefit to undercutting the other organization.
Rogue “lifers” within either organization doing it without permission? Possible. But the risk is huge for no reward other than feeling like an ideological warrior.
I am assuming that the House and Senate Intelligence oversight committees were aware of both programs. That leads me to my personal theory that it was a Democratic staffer or politician with the intent of undermining the president politically and ending the practices. Whether ending the practices or the political damage was the paramount reason, both would logically occur if the information was leaked.
The leaker talked to the NY times at least a year ago, the Times sat on the story (wrongly, IMHO) for a year at the request of the gov’t, until finally publishing recently. Indeed it’s interesting that the Times, which is often accused of being a tool of the Dems, waited until after the 2004 election but a good bit before the 2006 election to release the story. It’s really a suboptimal time, if their purpose was to undermine Bush.
Kinda hijacking your own thread here, but anyways, where laws broken in this case as they were in the Plame case? I belive there is no law in general against leaking classified info, only specific types. One of those types is the identity of covert operatives, so the Plame thing was certainly illegal. Does the leaking of the wiretaping operation also fall under a type of information which it is illegal to leak?
See my previous reply, It seems that Republicans are not trusting the administration anymore. I see **Evil One ** is not letting the evidence go in the way of his personal theory.
You posted while I was typing. See Post 7. But the partisan hate toward GWB is as intense as I can remember toward anyone…so I was assuming it was a factor. Perhaps older dopers can compare the rancor toward GWB with that of Nixon during Watergate…or Johnson during Vietnam.
From an AP story earlier today: *Appearing with McConnell on “Fox News Sunday,” Sen. Charles Schumer (news, bio, voting record), D-N.Y., said the Justice Department investigation should explore the motivation of the person who leaked the information. “Was this somebody who had an ill purpose, trying to hurt the United States?” Schumer asked. “Or might it have been someone in the department who felt that this was wrong, legally wrong, that the law was being violated?” *
I believe the latter is the case. I doubt it was a Democrat because of the time frame - especially in regard to the NSA leak. The NY Times had this story a year ago. If their source was a member of the opposition, I cannot imagine they would have held the story this long. The source would have leaked it to other media outlets also. (Does anyone know when exactly they first received the information?)
My sense in both cases is that it is an old-school Republican, ya know, the ones who actually support the Constitution, small government and the libertarian principles conservatives used to be noted for. Contrary to popular belief, they are still moderate Republicans out there who support human rights, the Fourth Amendment and all that.
And in that sense I certainly hope that it is a Republican, so that they can engage in their long overdue debate of what the Republican party is supposed to stand for. I have never been able to fathom how true conservatives support Bush, Cheney and co.
So I suppose it is both - they feel it is wrong and they want to undermine Bush, though not the United States. These leaks actually strengthen the US in my opinion since they bring these activities to light where citizens can voice their approval or disapproval - allow us to be a democracy and all that, not a police state in a perpetual war against drugs, oops, that was the 80’s excuse. (We won that war too, didn’t we… :rolleyes: )
The subject matter doesn’t matter. If something is classified, it is illegal to disclose it to unauthorized persons. The higher the classification, the bigger the penalty. And I can assure you that the NSA information was classified at the highest levels. The CIA story is probably next, followed by the Plame information.
I think they are fully aware of the political impact and that is one of the reasons they are doing it. They want these activities to brought into the political arena, not locked away behind the closed doors of smoke-filled rooms.
I was becoming politically aware during Johnson’s administration, so I can’t speak to that. I would put the rancor toward Nixon on the same level as Bush; I don’t see much difference. Matter of fact, I’d say that the tremendous support from the citizenry in the first term of each, and the pulling away of the citizenry and the Republicans from each of them as the manure got deeper is pretty much the same too.
I think you underestimate the level of distrust the leadership of these agencies (and the military, for that matter) have towards the Bush Administration. The professionals that run these agencies have little regard for the people in the White House. They are regarded as incompetent rogues.
Read the reports of those who have left or resigned - they are not complimentary.
I find it amusing that some folks get all a-twitter in a rush to find out who are the horrible shameless miscreants who leaked these shocking revelations about these scandals – doubtlessly to embarrass poor ol’ innocent George W. Bush for nefarious partisan ends – but can’t raise any effort to wonder why we still don’t know who was responsible for leaking the undercover identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame and the related ruination of the Brewster Jennings front company and the folks associated with it.
Have you ever considered that maybe the outrage he’s attracted is warranted because of the actions taken by the man and his Administration?
Cite, please. I would like to know the specific provision of law which prohibits the disclosure of any ol’ piece of classified information to any ol’ Joe on the street. I’m not talking about turning over secrets to “the enemy,” or disclosing the identities of covert operatives.
I’d like to know the exact provision of law which provides for criminal penalties for disclosing some bit of classified information to a reporter.
I see no reason to believe that the info. was given to the press to effect Bush
politically. Of course that’s possible, but I think it’s much more likely it was done for
more idealistic reasons. I wouldn’t risk my reputation, and the possibility of prison,
for some possible political advantage to my party, but I would for my country and the
Constitution. If you work for the government and see that government being
subverted by illegal activity, who do you go to? Your superiors? The F.B.I.? Some
congressional oversight committee? All of those could blow you off and a short time
later you might find yourself unemployed, or even charged w/ some trumped up
crime.
So you go to the media, you contact a reporter, somebody w/ the clout to get your
story the attention you want.
Reporters are trained to ask questions, to confirm details, to look for ulterior motives
that might make them look like dupes. If you’re in a position to have valuable info.
you most probably know that. Not to say that politically motivated leaks don’t get
published, but why would the media (NYT) contact the administration and then wait
a year if the story if purely political?
The claims of damage to our security are also specious. How can any reasonably
intelligent person believe that these terrorist (for lack of a better word) organizations
are not sophisticated enough to protect themselves against espionage, especially
electronic intrusion and eavesdropping. Even the, supposedly super secret, NSA has
been frequently exposed in the media for over 30 years. Give me a break, what
“secrets” were suddenly exposed by this news story?
In the same vein, republicans claim that no damage was done by publicly exposing
Valerie Plame. How the hell can they say that? How long was Plame a covert agent?
How many foreign contacts did she have during that time? Don’t you think that those
foreign gov’ts. might be a little suspicious of people that she had contact w/ now that
it’s been revealed that she was a CIA spy? How have those people faired since the
revelation? Are any of them missing? Any sudden accidents? Suicides? Will we ever
know? What about those people that she had contact w/ as a part of her cover.
People who thought she was a legitimate businesswoman and had no idea that she
was an agent. Were any of them put under suspicion as a result of the expose’.
It’s ludicrous to believe that no harm was done by revealing her status, even if she
had been removed from covert activity prior to the outing.
Then there’s also the motive. No probability of altruism here. It was a petty act of
political revenge, no doubt about it, and there’s not a shadow of a doubt that Cheney
was fully aware of what Libby was doing, if not the author of the deed.
Bush claims the exigencies of war justifies the act, but he avoids seeking a legal
solution, citing instead, his war powers as sufficient reason to violate existing law.
The man took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution, not disregard it when it
didn’t suit his purposes.