Semen and Kosher?

chaoticbear · #1 01-05-2006, 12:31 AM

I can't think of anywhere that I've ever found that semen is expressly forbiddden for Jews to eat. My question stems from the milk/meat issue. Obviously, semen, although it may have many euphemisms that involve the word "milk," is not a secretion of the mammary glands.

Is it, however, a meat/meat product?

If I were Jewish, and followed Kosher, would I be able to ingest semen and milk at the same meal?

For the record, no, I'm not the only person in the world wondering this. My boyfriend also wonders the same thing. (Only after I prompted it.)

CynicalGabe · #2 01-05-2006, 12:42 AM

Doesn't some kosher rule have something about bodily fluids being drained from the animal?

cmkeller · #3 01-05-2006, 08:22 AM

Things that are derived from an animal but are not the animal's actual flesh are not meat. I imagine this would (from a Kashrus perspective) be no different than drinking milk after French-kissing someone.

On the other hand, doesn't semen usually contain trace amounts of blood? If so, I don't think you'd be allowed to ingest it, as blood is always a no-no.

Mama Zappa · #4 01-05-2006, 01:15 PM

I'd think that the kosher-ness would be the least of your problems - after all, you'd have to "spill your seed" in order for someone to swallow it, and you'd be immediately smitten by the Lord for doing so (google "Bible Onan").

Lemur866 · #5 01-05-2006, 01:20 PM

Onan wasn't smote because he spilled his seed upon the ground, he was smote because he refused to impregnate his (dead) brother's wife to give his brother a posthumous son. The method he chose to avoid impregnating his brother's wife was spilling his seed upon the ground.

Bricker · #6 01-05-2006, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemur866

Onan wasn't smote because he spilled his seed upon the ground, he was smote because he refused to impregnate his (dead) brother's wife to give his brother a posthumous son. The method he chose to avoid impregnating his brother's wife was spilling his seed upon the ground.

True. But nonetheless, sh'chatat zerah - (destruction of the seed, or ejaculation outside the vagina) is halachically forbidden, and that prohibition is based on the Onan passage. In fact, male masturbation is forbidden for this reason as well. Niddah 13a: in the case of a man, "...the hand that reaches below the navel should be chopped off."

Excalibre · #7 01-05-2006, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bricker

True. But nonetheless, sh'chatat zerah - (destruction of the seed, or ejaculation outside the vagina) is halachically forbidden, and that prohibition is based on the Onan passage. In fact, male masturbation is forbidden for this reason as well. Niddah 13a: in the case of a man, "...the hand that reaches below the navel should be chopped off."

Aww, so long, righty. We had something beautiful together . . .

Jpeg Jones · #8 01-05-2006, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bricker

..."the hand that reaches below the navel should be chopped off."

I read this as "the hand that reaches below, the navel should be choped off."

chaoticbear · #9 01-05-2006, 03:36 PM

Ok, how about this: The semen was ejaculated in the normal way into a woman. This woman then took a small vacuum of some kind and deposited (what part of it she could) it into a glass.

Multiply this by a lot of women, who all do this, and deposit it into the same glass. This is put into the refrigerator, just so that I can call it a tall frosty mug of semen.

And ignore the vaginal juices that surely would contaminate the semen.

What about now?

The Great Sun Jester · #10 01-05-2006, 03:40 PM

* hurk *

uh...go ask a rabbi about that one.

Gfactor · #11 01-05-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bricker

True. But nonetheless, sh'chatat zerah - (destruction of the seed, or ejaculation outside the vagina) is halachically forbidden, and that prohibition is based on the Onan passage. In fact, male masturbation is forbidden for this reason as well. Niddah 13a: in the case of a man, "...the hand that reaches below the navel should be chopped off."

Apparently, there is a loophole:

Quote:

From an halachic standpoint, semen is considered viable for 72 hours, after which it has no further halachic significance.

http://www.yoatzot.org/article/35

I'd definitely recommend pan frying it with the remaining hand, though. ;j

Quote:

[o]ne who fathers a child by artificial insemination is considered to be the Halachic father[.]

http://www.koltorah.org/ravj/14-7%20Cloning%202.htm

Gfactor · #12 01-05-2006, 03:53 PM

Wow. Those Rabbis think of everything:

Quote:

The halachic condoms are meant for the collection of semen for testing or IVF, not as a method of birth control (they are made with a hole).

http://www.yoatzot.org/question/1260

Ya see. Then technically, it's not outside.

I assume the testing is non-destructive.

CynicalGabe · #13 01-05-2006, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

* hurk *

uh...go ask a rabbi about that one.

This reminded me of an old Onion article

Local Lutheran Minister Loves to Fuck His Wife

rainy · #14 01-05-2006, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mama Zappa

...and you'd be immediately smitten by the Lord for doing so (google "Bible Onan").

I didn't realize until just know that smitten was a past participle (yeah, yeah whatever, I can't diagram a sentence anymore either) of smite. Just doesn't seem to carry the same weigh in a connotative sense.

-rainy

CC · #15 01-05-2006, 05:06 PM

If I'd a had the kind of wife (chaoticbear) who woulda engaged in the kind of conversation, speculation and post ejaculation activation that the above poster indicates, I'da never left home in the first place. ;j

iamthewalrus(:3= · #16 01-05-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gfactor

I'd definitely recommend pan frying it with the remaining hand, though. ;j

Just great. Another set of dishes to worry about.

CynicalGabe · #17 01-05-2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainy

I didn't realize until just know that smitten was a past participle (yeah, yeah whatever, I can't diagram a sentence anymore either) of smite. Just doesn't seem to carry the same weigh in a connotative sense.

-rainy

That's because smitten means 'infatuated'.

rainy · #18 01-05-2006, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CynicalGabe

That's because smitten means 'infatuated'.

Exactly my point.

SABEI_KING · #19 01-07-2006, 03:11 AM

Well Jews aswell as Muslims eat Kosher. I think the rules in Judaism are sumwhat similar i mean if u really like it who can stop u ? But think logicly or ask u mother semen is mad to nock u up not for the forth mean of the day

Mama Zappa · #20 01-07-2006, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CynicalGabe

That's because smitten means 'infatuated'.

Er, yes

, perhaps The Lord *really* likes the idea of a snack o' the ol' pan-fried washed down by a frosty mug of.... I think I realized the minute I hit submit that this should've read "smote" or "smited" or something ;j (hey, woohoo, I finally get to use that smiley!)

nd_n8 · #21 01-07-2006, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaoticbear

Ok, how about this: The semen was ejaculated in the normal way into a woman. This woman then took a small vacuum of some kind and deposited (what part of it she could) it into a glass.

Multiply this by a lot of women, who all do this, and deposit it into the same glass. This is put into the refrigerator, just so that I can call it a tall frosty mug of semen.

And ignore the vaginal juices that surely would contaminate the semen.

What about now?

[mental note]--Never go to a party with chaoticbear--[/mental note]

[afterthought]... without a camcorder.[/afterthought]

Angua · #22 01-07-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SABEI_KING

Well Jews aswell as Muslims eat Kosher.

Nitpick. Muslims don't keep kosher, they keep halal, and whilst a vast majority of the rules that apply to halal apply to kosher, not everything that is halal is kosher, but everything that is kosher is halal. For instance, there's no prohibition for Muslims to mix meat and dairy.

chaoticbear · #23 01-08-2006, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC

If I'd a had the kind of wife (chaoticbear) who woulda engaged in the kind of conversation, speculation and post ejaculation activation that the above poster indicates, I'da never left home in the first place. ;j

[side note]I'm a boy too.[/side note]

Mbossa · #24 01-08-2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angua

Nitpick. Muslims don't keep kosher, they keep halal, and whilst a vast majority of the rules that apply to halal apply to kosher, not everything that is halal is kosher, but everything that is kosher is halal. For instance, there's no prohibition for Muslims to mix meat and dairy.

(bolding mine)

Another nitpick: alcoholic drinks can be kosher but are never halal.

Angua · #25 01-09-2006, 03:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mbossa

(bolding mine)

Another nitpick: alcoholic drinks can be kosher but are never halal.

Good point. For some reason, that example never crossed my mind.

Meeko · #26 01-09-2006, 03:22 AM

Ah... but what if the Semen were to be boiled in the Kidd's mom's milk?

Illuminatiprimus · #27 01-09-2006, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meeko

Ah... but what if the Semen were to be boiled in the Kidd's mom's milk?

In a Phoebe voice

STOP THE MADNESS!!!!

Mangetout · #28 01-09-2006, 05:14 AM

Can caviar be kosher? How about fish roe? (a term that can include 'soft roe' - i.e. the male reproductive glands and their contents).

cmkeller · #29 01-09-2006, 09:10 AM

Roe from a kosher fish is kosher, but caviar, which I believe refers specifically to eggs of sturgeon, isn't, as sturgeon is not a kosher fish.

Mangetout · #30 01-09-2006, 09:24 AM

True caviar is from sturgeon, but I believe the term has somewhat broadened to include eggs from other species (although I'm not sure which, if any, of these are kosher fish)

Anyway, are all parts of a kosher fish permissible? (Including such parts as the livers and male reproductive organs?)

Raguleader · #31 01-09-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Excalibre

Aww, so long, righty. We had something beautiful together . . .

...Hello Lefty, guess what? I'm single again!

So, I've been giving this too much thought, and something occured to me...

Would it be Kosher if the semen were on a treadmill? ;j

chaoticbear · #32 01-09-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raguleader

Would it be Kosher if the semen were on a treadmill? ;j

cmkeller · #33 01-09-2006, 01:49 PM

Magnetout:

Quote:

Anyway, are all parts of a kosher fish permissible? (Including such parts as the livers and male reproductive organs?)

Yes. Even the blood of fish is permissible, the prohibition of eating blood does not apply to sea creatures. (The main kashrut issue with organ meats such as liver is getting all the blood out. It's obviously doable, but requires special handling.)