(And next up is the short and hard-to-find-with-illustrations Eric, for those looking ahead)
Anyway, longtime Discworld readers know that many of the novels feature recurring characters – the Death and Susan books, the Witches books…
…and now here’s Guards! Guards!, otherwise known as our introduction to Fred Colon, Nobby Nobbs, and the miserably alcoholic Samuel Vimes. The Ankh-Morpork night watch is a bad joke, but things go in an unexpected direction when the city is visited by (a) a bleedin’ great flying dragon, and (b) Carrot Ironfounderson, who was raised as a dwarf and then raised further as a human. The Watch will eventually thrive in their own series of novels, but this is where it all began.
I’d rather let the other SDMBDWRC members get this discussion going, so I’ll just toss out one thought here. A recurring discussion with Discworld readers is trying to identify where Terry Pratchett went from lighthearted spoofs of fantasy novels to the more “serious” humor he’s known for today. I won’t say that Guards! Guards! is that turning point – rather, I think it was a gradual process, starting with Mort, easing through Sourcery and Pyramids, and finally (mostly) completing the transition with Guards! Guards! While Vimes gets the most attention in this book, none of the other characters are given short shrift, and Lord Vetinari and the Ankh-Morpork guild dynamics gets further fleshed out as well. The novel could have been just a collection of parodies and jokes, but there’s a depth to the characters that makes it more enduring, IMO.
This is where the whole Disc took off for me. Perfect in every way. And it has Sybil, who one of these days is going to get a book of her own. Carrot is a gem, and I kind of like him better as the literalist he is in the first few books as opposed to the King Who Walks Among Us he becomes in the later books. Still good, just not great. YMMV.
All the characters are introduced and fleshed out well, as noted, and the story serves as a springboard to The Future. Vimes is by far my favorite male character on the Disc, and this novel lets him show his mettle.
“This is Lord Mountjoy Quickfang Winterforth IV, the hottest dragon in the city. It could burn your head clean off.”
It’s certainly a strong contender for the first serious DW novel, though as you say, it still hasn’t settled down properly. The first unambiguously serious, self-contained novels (as opposed to obligatory parodies) would be “Witches Abroad” and “Small Gods” IMO.
This was the first Discworld book I read, and I still have a real soft spot for it as a result. As a result it’s kind of hard for me to judge it objectively. It seemed so radical in it’s day, and I was so much into roleplaying and fantasy at the time, that it seemed incredible. But I suspect that judging it objectively as someone 15 years wiser with much less interest the in fantasy genre it really isn’t that good.
The characters are interesting and ‘real’ DW characters. The story is interesting, the interactions of the various characters is well done. But I suspect that objectively it lacks a lot of the punch of later works.
Another thing that bugs me now, although of course it doesn’t affect the novel as a stand alone, is that the vital plot point is recycled from one from one of the early Rincewind/Twoflower novels: ‘Dragons can only be called up from our minds’. Pratchett has a habit of doing this (Dungeon Dimensions anyone?). I can understand an author casually introducing an idea that he later wants to expand on, but this is a case of an author using the same crucial plot element twice. Seems kind of weak.
I believe that was from The Light Fantastic, although the way it was handled was quite a bit different. I believe this dragon was quite a bit bigger than the dragons in that book. He also went with quite a bit different tact with how dragons manifest from our minds. In TLF it was basically a wonderful creature you just have to believe in. Here it was more the representation of the person you are.
I just finished this book, and I very much enjoyed it. I’ll have to pick up Eric now, although it seems like a lot of people really dislike it. Oh well, I haven’t really disliked anything so far!
I often, for no reason, blurt out “Hooray, hooray, for the Spinster’s sister’s daughter!”
The scene with Colon attempting the “Million to one” shot is a classic for me. And Vimes is one of my favourite DW characters, but I must confess to liking the later Carrot a lot more than the early literalist.
Having been brought up on British humour, I considered this book to be one of the funniest I’d ever read up to that time, mostly because of the Elucidated Brethren of the Ebon Night being such a hilarious bunch of idiots, fitting those character-types that always make me snigger.
I’m not a fan of Vimes, but I love Carrot, Nobby, and many of the subsequent Watch-persons that come in later books, and this one is a fantastic showcase of their character.
Eric isn’t bad, exactly. It just has always seemed to me like one of the few throwaway Discworld books, like Pterry was busy with something else while he was writing it and didn’t really put his heart into it. I’ve always thought of it as the Contractual Obligation Novel of the Discworld series.
If I recall correctly, **Eric ** was originally conceived as an illustrated novel, with the (Kirby?) pictures as important a part of the whole as Pterry’s text. That is why the thin text-only editions seem lacking.
Finally I’m in synch with the SD-DWRC, until now I always seem to be on the wrong book.
This is the one bit of the book that didn’t work on me, I could see that it was supposed to be funny but it didn’t make me laugh at all (unlike say the million to one chance gag).
What I really like about GG is the density of ideas, off the top of my head there’s:
Vimes as every downtrodden cop/private eye ever.
Carrott as dwarf/king and his completely unmagical sword.
The uselessness of swamp dragons.
L-Space (which can be used to get back to last week).
Errol the Whittle.
The Vimes/Sybil Errol/Dragon (Queen) parallel
The start of Vetenari always being two steps ahead of everyone.
Any number of dread portals.
I like the way some scenes are descibed sort of after the event, I’ve not got the book to hand but one I think an example would be when the dragon flames the coronation. (There might be a literary term for this trick).
My favourite scene is after they think that Error has run away he zooms back and knocks the “King” out of the sky with what must be Discworld’s first sonic boom.
Fabricati Diem Pvnc
I’m finally synced up with the SDMB-DWRC too. I’ve read the Guards series out of order, so it was cool to get back to the first one.
As others have said, I really liked Carrot’s dwarf/human interplay, especially the overly literal part. The Elucidated Brethren really worked for me, my favorite part being the first time Brother Finger’s is trying to get in.
And a minor point, I thought the would-be King’s character (or lack of character) was a nice touch. He was just an accessory to the Grand Master’s plans and that was about how much he factored in to the book.
For those that read the books in order, was it still obvious who the Grand Master was? It might have been nice to have a few more candidates, but maybe that was because I knew the future of most of the characters.
I love this book. I spent years as a herald in the SCA, and the scenes at the College of Heralds crack me up.
I’m also into dogs. (I don’t breed, I do rescue.) Pratchett has us nailed. The appeals to pity (poor little dragon, dumped into cruel world, give money), the obsessive breeding programs (his grandfather had good wingspan, I’m breeding away from the asthma), the willingness to calmly accept chaos and destruction in the house because dragons do tend to drool, the ladies in old clothes and sensible shoes who turn out to own half of Ankh; it’s all spot on.
And I love Sybil. She may very well be my favorite character in all the books. At some point, Pratchett says that because she is large and kind, people assume she is stupid. Far, far from it, and she and Sam make a wonderful couple.
Someone had an auction for the illustrated first edition on eBay a few months back. IIRC, the bids got up to $300+ :eek:
Not to get too far ahead of the novels, but one thing that vexes me the more we learn about Vimes’ past (most notably in Night Watch is how he ends up as the broken, drunk, cynical loser he is at the start of G!G! The only way I can account for it is that something happened to Vimes a few years before the start of this novel to give his psyche an uncharacteristically sideways jump into extreme knurd.
And I’m surprised nobody has nominated Dibbler’s anti-dragon merchandise sales as one of the (many) fun parts of this novel. “Anti-dragon cream. Personal guarantee: if you’re incinerated you get your money back, no quibble.”
I’ll give you a better answer when we get to Night Watch, but I don’t think any one thing happened to him. He just got old and lonely, and convinced that nothing he could do made a difference. A big part of the reason he starts to change in G!G is because he meets Sybil, who believes he’s a good person, and he meets Carrot, who’s the only one besides himself to believe the law should mean something.
According to Fred Colon, Vimes was “brought low by a woman.” Now this could be literal, and involve a broken love affair and the like, or it could be meta…meta…metawossname…metaphorical and involve Ankh-Morpork betraying him in some fashion, or The Previous Patrician stabbing him in the back and selling the Watch down the river.
Well, I’m still not caught up on my listening yet (I’ve got the audiobooks and use them when exercising - a bit slower than reading, but I love the reader’s - Nigel Planer - voice talents), so I’m still behind you guys.
But yes, it was completely obvious from the moment Wants was introduced. At least it was to me.
The Secret Brotherhood Of Losers (can’t remember the actual name) was the ones responsible for summoning The Dragon. The Grand Master was the head of the group.
