Can Superman tear his own head off?

[ultrafilter]

As long as we're on the superhero kick, this is something I've always wondered for a while. On the one hand, Superman is very strong. On the other, he's damn-near invulnerable. It's tough to pick which aspect is greater. What do the Dopers think?

[iamthewalrus(:3=]

I would say no, on the grounds that I can't tear my own head off. If you assume that Superman's strength is based on proportionally greater physical strength, then the stronger muscle and connective tissue he has will resist being pulled apart by a proportionally greater amount.

[DarrenS]

This reminds me of the age-old conundrum,

"Can god make a stone that's so heavy that even he can't lift it?"

[Hal Briston]

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3=

I would say no, on the grounds that I can't tear my own head off.

Are you sure? Have you tried? I mean, really, really put your all into it?

Kidding aside, I agree. I believe it's all supposed to be proportional.

[Maastricht]

Ooh...nice geeky twist to the classic paradox: "Can God be omniscient and omnipotent at the same time?"

If he's all powerful, he can change his mind any time he wants and do something different, so events will run a different course. But if he's all-knowing, he should know what is going to happen in all eternity. But he can't because his own free will makes the future uncertain.

[Maastricht]

Damn. DarrenS types faster then I do.

[Evil Captor]

Well, doing so would be super-stupid, and Superman is not super-stupid. Even if he IS a dick.

[Beware of Doug]

I got it!! I got it!!1! Supes is an irresistible force, and his head is an immovable object!

No, waait...that'd mean he couldn't ever move his head. OK, never mind.

[DrFidelius]

Given that when he needed to have surgery he would use his own fingernail to open his skin, I extrapolate that to say that his invulnerability is less than his strength.

Therefore, he could tear his head off if he needed to.

[Bill Door]

Originally Posted by DrFidelius

Given that when he needed to have surgery he would use his own fingernail to open his skin, I extrapolate that to say that his invulnerability is less than his strength.

Therefore, he could tear his head off if he needed to.

Yes, but I could open my skin with my fingernail if driven by desperation. I could not tear my head off under any circumstances. I could possibly break my own neck, but that's the extent of it.

Superman used to be able to burn his own whiskers off using a mirror fashioned from a fragment of the spaceship he was in when he came to Earth, so at he is at least partially vulnerable to his own powers. I'm not sure if this power was retconned away.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Bill Door

I could not tear my head off under any circumstances.

...wuss...

[Harborwolf]

Probably not, but he can use his heat vision to heat a burrito to the point where even he cannot eat it.

[Mangetout]

Aside from the issue of raw physical strength vs structural properties of tissue, there's also motor control to consider; even if you were technically strong enough to rip off your own head, it's unlikely you'd be able to complete the task because partially ripping off your own head would cause you to lose control of your arms, stopping you from following through; a bit like crucifying yourself; you just can't get the last nail in.

[neofishboy]

I can't add much else to the topic, but I would like to say that this may very well be my favorite thread title ever.

[silenus]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

... a bit like crucifying yourself; you just can't get the last nail in.

Batman could. Because he's prepared.

[Biffy the Elephant Shrew]

Originally Posted by Bill Door

Yes, but I could open my skin with my fingernail if driven by desperation. I could not tear my head off under any circumstances. I could possibly break my own neck, but that's the extent of it.

At least one non-super person in the DC universe has torn off his own head: Niles Caulder of the Doom Patrol.

[Anaamika]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

a bit like crucifying yourself; you just can't get the last nail in.

Nail gun?

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by Anaamika

Nail gun?

Batman doesn't use guns.

[Revenant Threshold]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

Batman doesn't use guns.

I applaud. Good show, sir.

[Krokodil]

There's a theory--Alan Moore used it in Marvelman--that Superman isn't really all that strong, but his feats of power come from telekinesis and manipulation of force fields. Once Superman damagd himself seriously enough, the energy fields would cut out and the head ripping would cease. It's a little like trying to strangle yourself with your bare hands. You'd pass out midway through the task.

[Terrifel]

From "JLA Self-Mutilation 80-Page Giant"-- THE PASSION OF THE BAT (Not a dream! Not an imaginary story!)

(SCENE: THE JUSTICE LEAGUE SATELLITE)

GREEN LANTERN: --and so, to resolve this question once and for all, Batman and Superman have both agreed to a race. At my ring-signal, Superman will attempt to tear his own head off before Batman can crucify himself.

WONDER WOMAN: Um... does anyone remember what the point of this contest was?

GREEN ARROW: Don't act so innocent, babe. How can you expect people to trust a leader, if he can't even tear his own head off when the situation demands it?

WONDER WOMAN: But... it's impossible for a person to tear their own head off! I mean, physically impossible! And how can someone crucify themselves, for that matter? How could they nail their last hand down?

GREEN LANTERN (FORMS GIANT STOPWATCH WITH RING): And... begin!

(BATMAN INSTANTLY LEAPS INTO THE SHADOWS AND EMERGES WITH A SPECIALLY PREPARED BAT-CRUCIFIX. LEANING IT AGAINST THE WALL, HE JUMPS INTO PLACE AND PRODUCES THREE HUGE IRON NAILS AND A BALL-PEEN HAMMER FROM HIS UTILITY BELT. TEETH GRITTED IN AGONY, HE DRIVES ONE NAIL STRAIGHT THROUGH BOTH FEET, THEN HAMMERS HIS LEFT HAND DOWN.)

BATMAN: ...HRNH! ...HGHHH! ...NNGGHHGHH!!!

(WITH INHUMAN DEXTERITY, HE DROPS THE HAMMER WHILE HANGING ONTO THE FINAL NAIL, ITS POINT FIRMLY PRESSED INTO HIS RIGHT PALM. BY SHIFTING HIS CENTER OF GRAVITY, HE ROCKS HIMSELF MADLY BACK AND FORTH, UNTIL THE CRUCIFIX FINALLY PITCHES FORWARD, CRASHING TO THE FLOOR... THE FORCE OF THE IMPACT DRIVING THE FINAL NAIL HOME!)

SUPERMAN (WHO HAS NOT MOVED AT ALL): Oh, well... I guess you win, then. (SHRUGS)

GREEN ARROW: ... ...Wow. You really are a dick!

[Krokodil]

Originally Posted by Terrifel

BATMAN INSTANTLY LEAPS INTO THE SHADOWS AND EMERGES WITH A SPECIALLY PREPARED BAT-CRUCIFIX.

Oh, so Batman wins if he's specially prepared!

[NDP]

I may be the only one but when I saw the title of this thread, the first thing I thought of was this recent Elvis Costello song. (The lyrics have nothing to do with Superman though.)

[Apos]

Originally Posted by Hal Briston

Are you sure? Have you tried? I mean, really, really put your all into it?

Given that he has not posted in the thread since you suggested this, I'm going go assume that, yes, you can tear your own head off.

[astro]

Originally Posted by Bryan Ekers

Batman doesn't use guns.

Oh yeah?

[Biffy the Elephant Shrew]

Originally Posted by NDP

I may be the only one but when I saw the title of this thread, the first thing I thought of was this recent Elvis Costello song.

Oh, you're absolutely not the only one. Incidentally, the Bangles did a very bitchen cover version.

[Kythereia]

Originally Posted by Terrifel

From "JLA Self-Mutilation 80-Page Giant"-- THE PASSION OF THE BAT (Not a dream! Not an imaginary story!)

(SCENE: THE JUSTICE LEAGUE SATELLITE)

GREEN LANTERN: --and so, to resolve this question once and for all, Batman and Superman have both agreed to a race. At my ring-signal, Superman will attempt to tear his own head off before Batman can crucify himself.

WONDER WOMAN: Um... does anyone remember what the point of this contest was?

GREEN ARROW: Don't act so innocent, babe. How can you expect people to trust a leader, if he can't even tear his own head off when the situation demands it?

WONDER WOMAN: But... it's impossible for a person to tear their own head off! I mean, physically impossible! And how can someone crucify themselves, for that matter? How could they nail their last hand down?

GREEN LANTERN (FORMS GIANT STOPWATCH WITH RING): And... begin!

(BATMAN INSTANTLY LEAPS INTO THE SHADOWS AND EMERGES WITH A SPECIALLY PREPARED BAT-CRUCIFIX. LEANING IT AGAINST THE WALL, HE JUMPS INTO PLACE AND PRODUCES THREE HUGE IRON NAILS AND A BALL-PEEN HAMMER FROM HIS UTILITY BELT. TEETH GRITTED IN AGONY, HE DRIVES ONE NAIL STRAIGHT THROUGH BOTH FEET, THEN HAMMERS HIS LEFT HAND DOWN.)

BATMAN: ...HRNH! ...HGHHH! ...NNGGHHGHH!!!

(WITH INHUMAN DEXTERITY, HE DROPS THE HAMMER WHILE HANGING ONTO THE FINAL NAIL, ITS POINT FIRMLY PRESSED INTO HIS RIGHT PALM. BY SHIFTING HIS CENTER OF GRAVITY, HE ROCKS HIMSELF MADLY BACK AND FORTH, UNTIL THE CRUCIFIX FINALLY PITCHES FORWARD, CRASHING TO THE FLOOR... THE FORCE OF THE IMPACT DRIVING THE FINAL NAIL HOME!)

SUPERMAN (WHO HAS NOT MOVED AT ALL): Oh, well... I guess you win, then. (SHRUGS)

GREEN ARROW: ... ...Wow. You really are a dick!

You, sir, are God. *standing ovation of one*

[Taber]

Originally Posted by Hal Briston

Are you sure? Have you tried? I mean, really, really put your all into it?

Kidding aside, I agree. I believe it's all supposed to be proportional.

I have to say, this would certainly be the most hardcore way to go.

[Spatial Rift 47]

Originally Posted by Kythereia

You, sir, are God. *standing ovation of one*

Make that two. *stands and applauds Terrifel*

[wayward]

Originally Posted by Taber

I have to say, this would certainly be the most hardcore way to go.

Not quite the same, but apparently Samurai were occasionally known to decapitate themselves as a show of badassness. They weren't in much of a position to utilise that badassness after the fact, I would imagine, but still...

[Gerome]

Ray Smuckles can tear off his own head, when very angry. Or at least, Beef thinks so.

[JThunder]

Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3=

I would say no, on the grounds that I can't tear my own head off.

You're not trying hard enough. Give it another whirl.

[Revenant Threshold]

Originally Posted by JThunder

You're not trying hard enough. Give it another whirl.

No no, you twist, then whirl.

[Ponder Stibbons]

Originally Posted by Terrifel

From "JLA Self-Mutilation 80-Page Giant"-- THE PASSION OF THE BAT <snip>

GREEN ARROW: ... ...Wow. You really are a dick!

Bravo! Bravo!

And let's face it. Bats had it comin' to him ever since he did you-know-what to Robin.

FYI: Superdickery.com was hacked last week and was laden with viruses. The site appears to have been cleaned up now, but be on the lookout anyway.

[DiggitCamara]

Originally Posted by DarrenS

This reminds me of the age-old conundrum,

"Can god make a stone that's so heavy that even he can't lift it?"

That's why god left quantum mechanics in the equation of the universe: he CAN have his cake and eat it too.

[psiekier]

Originally Posted by DrFidelius

Given that when he needed to have surgery he would use his own fingernail to open his skin, I extrapolate that to say that his invulnerability is less than his strength.

I remember this being addressed as part of the newspaper comic once. A reader asked how it was that Superman was able to give Lois Lane a blood transfusion when the doctor couldn't have possibly penetrated Superman's skin with a needle.

Superman had gashed his own flesh with his fingernail, allowing the doctor to insert the needle and effect the transfusion.

Originally Posted by Harborwolf

Probably not, but he can use his heat vision to heat a burrito to the point where even he cannot eat it.

That's no big deal. I'm not Superman and I find I can't stomach those crappy Patio microwave burritos regardless of how much (or how little) I microwave them.

Originally Posted by Krokodil

There's a theory--Alan Moore used it in Marvelman--that Superman isn't really all that strong, but his feats of power come from telekinesis and manipulation of force fields.

Didn't John Byrne try to explain Superman's power this way when he was writing the series, and everything he wrote pretty much went into the trash as he wrote it? At least that would explain, though, how he had Rebuilding-the-Great-Wall-of-China Vision in Superman 4 and never pulled that stunt again.

Where the hell is Candid Gamera?

[Mr. Blue Sky]

Nothing to add other than I wish we had a prize for Thread Title of the Month.

This one would definitely be in the running.

[Bryan Ekers]

Originally Posted by psiekier

At least that would explain, though, how he had Rebuilding-the-Great-Wall-of-China Vision in Superman 4 and never pulled that stunt again.

Maybe also how General Zod could point at a guy and shoot a beam capable of lifting him 40 feet in the air in the second film. And what was the deal with the giant cellophane "S"?

[Trans Fat Og]

Originally Posted by Beware of Doug

I got it!! I got it!!1! Supes is an irresistible force, and his head is an immovable object!

No, waait...that'd mean he couldn't ever move his head. OK, never mind.

Here's what may strike you as a very odd coincidence.And you may be hearing this for the first time.

In one of the three or so meetings between Superboy and Superman in the Silver Age, Superboy ended up trapped in Superman's "time-zone." Superman showed him with a stick writing on the ground that neither of them could focus enough force/energy to break this sort of "hex". A story ensues in which neither of them seemed bothered by the idea of young Clark Kent walking around in "modern-day" Metropolis. (I think they used a different name for him and had people believe that he was a younger cousin. Or brother, or something. Also, folks may not have seen -Boy in costume.)

In the end someone got the idea to have -Man charge at -Boy in the usual i.f. meets i.o. cliche metaphor. That got -Boy shot "head over heels" back where he came from. With one huge headache that he kinda' slept off on the family couch.

And, of course, typical to such "dreamlike" stories he kinda' wondered if "it all REALLY happened" -- or am I having false fictional memory in this case??

(Hm! Now that I think of it, I think THAT was as close to taking his own head off as he cared to come, BTW.)

* * * * * * * * * * * *

True Blue Jack

[HeadNinja]

Not many people know that at the top of the Empire state building is a bar. From this bar you can see all of Manhattan, and the land for miles. It is usually empty, except for the bartender and a single customer.

One day a tourist found the bar. Wearing Bermuda shorts and five dollar sunglasses, he was the kind of guy New Yorkers love to hate.

He sat next to the tired looking customer and ordered a Bud.

"This is my first time in New York." He said. The bartender and the customer respond with silence. The tourist doesn't notice.

"Sure is a big place." Silence.

"Fellow can see all there is to see here." Silence.

"You sure aren't friendly folk, are you?"

The customer stirs. He finishes his whiskey and puts the glass down.

"Where you from?" He asks the tourist.

"Topeka."

The drunkard smiles.

"How tall is the biggest building in To - pee - ka?"

"Bout 20 stories."

"Well we're something like one hundred stories up. On a building like this something amazing happens. The drafts are so strong you can lean out a window and just float."

The tourist bristles. "I won't be made a fool of sir. Such a thing is not possible."

The drunkard merely walks open to a window and opens it. The wind races in, howling through the bar. He leans out over the window. A little a first, and then he climbs out the rest of the way. For a couple of second he floats in front of the window, held in only by his feet. The he stretches his legs and pulls himself back in.

He smiles again. "See. Simple as can be."

"Now I have to try that!" Says the tourist. He leans out the window and falls to his death.

"Superman, why do you always have to be such a dick?" Asks the bartender.

That's how the Superman is a dick joke I know. sorry to go off topic.

[Beware of Doug]

Originally Posted by True Blue Jack

Here's what may strike you as a very odd coincidence.And you may be hearing this for the first time.

In one of the three or so meetings between Superboy and Superman in the Silver Age, Superboy ended up trapped in Superman's "time-zone." [...]
In the end someone got the idea to have -Man charge at -Boy in the usual i.f. meets i.o. cliche metaphor. That got -Boy shot "head over heels" back where he came from. With one huge headache that he kinda' slept off on the family couch.

Kewl. And no, I hadn't heard it before. Thanks Jack.

[Cervaise]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blue Sky

Nothing to add other than I wish we had a prize for Thread Title of the Month.

I'd sure vote for it.

And the rest of the thread is living up to it, too.

[WordMan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Blue Sky

Nothing to add other than I wish we had a prize for Thread Title of the Month.

This one would definitely be in the running.

+1

ultrafilter - I thought your music collection threads were a work of genius, but now we know you are an eccentric genius!

Bravo, Sir - I say Bravo!

[Regallag_The_Axe]

Originally Posted by HeadNinja

"Superman, why do you always have to be such a dick?" Asks the bartender.

I've always herd/told it as "Superman, you're an ass when you're drunk."

[Spiff]

Originally Posted by HeadNinja

That's how the Superman is a dick joke I know. sorry to go off topic.

Not off topic at all. That joke was alluded to in post #7.

[Ranchoth]

Originally Posted by Mangetout

Aside from the issue of raw physical strength vs structural properties of tissue, there's also motor control to consider; even if you were technically strong enough to rip off your own head, it's unlikely you'd be able to complete the task because partially ripping off your own head would cause you to lose control of your arms

So, basically, Superman would have the same luck in tearing off his head as a Superhorse would?

What?

So, to take a more realistic approach, could Superman, say, break or tear off some of his own fingers? Or rip out his own heart?

[fula_sass]

OMG does anyone realize these charactors are not real?

[Revenant Threshold]

OMG does anyone realise this thread is four months old?

[Loopydude]

OMFG, if 2up3rm4n d3capitat3d hiss31f, wud h3 3v3n di3?!!!!11!!??

[ArrMatey!]

Originally Posted by Kythereia

You, sir, are God. *standing ovation of one*

*joins the ovation*